Posted on: Wednesday, March 21st, 2012
Posted in: Featured
Comments: 746
Indoctrination Theory & Proof of ME3 Ending DLC
I’ve got a huge amount of responses regarding Mass Effect 3 Ending, maybe you are tired of talking about it, but I find myself engrossed. Chief among the explanations for the nonsensical ending is the “Indoctrination Theory” which explains away the ending by saying Shepard is hallucinating everything. I was severely skeptical so I poured myself into researching the topic and the following is what I’ve discovered!
Indoctrination Theory or no, I’m convinced Epilogue DLC is on its way. That’s either good or bad depending on your point of view.
if you people knew all the stuff we are planning you’d, we’ll – hold onto your copy of me3 forever.” -Michael Gamble's Twitter Account
From where I’m standing, I love the series so much, I hope it’s true, that it’s free, and that they never pull this shit again.
Big Thanks goes to many people for engaging in discussion with me and having such dedication to an enjoyable dissection of the game.
Do you believe in the Indoctrination Theory? Or do you think these are fans who as grasping at straws looking at Mass Effect’s Lore for any reason to throw out our current ending? If you do believe in the theory, do you think its right for a company to break off the real ending from a game and offer it as DLC (real or not) at a later date?
Big Thanks to these Sources:
ACAVYOS 21min Youtube Video Indoctrination Theory Explanation
Fan Complied Google Document
Bioware Social Network Indoctrination Theory Support Thread
Bioware Social Network Indoctrination Detractors Thread (Must be signed in)
Indoctrinated Shepard Artwork
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746 thoughts on “Indoctrination Theory & Proof of ME3 Ending DLC”
http://social.bioware.com/group/5245/discussion/20987/ I was browsing through the bioware forums and found this thread where someone found unused sound files that hints that maybe there is partial content of a future DLC depicting a full battle for Earth. An interesting look.
Lets face facts here. The ending in the game, the one you could precieve as the rigtht one, is starting to make sense because of this theory. If it is true, our minds are blown, except for the small percentage that figured this out(congrats you just achieved the highest iq scores ever).
Just giving us a real ending as a dlc is a bit of a bad move. It ruins the beauty of the story.it forces fans to spend more money in order to figure out what the hell happened.
man getting mass effect 3 i thought to myself “im gonna replay 1 2 and 3 to see the difference in the final ending” when i actually saw the ending i didnt even see the point in playing 3 a second time becuase it doesnt even matter anymore :/ goddam bioware broke my will to play
I feel kind of bad for Bioware having a good company deal with EA’s greed.
its a mixed bag if its free hell yes if not R.I.P. Bioware
could bioware really have screwed up that bad, i mean years in planning this and screw up the ending. I dont think so, it has to be the indoctrination theory.
Bioware? No probably not.
But EA? Oh yes, have no doubt about that.
To everyone that is confused with the Normandy sequence. The scene where the Normandy is destroyed is what really happens. Joker runs away because he thinks that Shepard is dead. The scene where the Normandy crash lands in that freaky electronic planet where everything is synthetic is another dream of Shepard.
I’d also like to say that the Indoctrination theory is correct. Why would Bioware give the indoctrination codex entry at the beginning of every mass effect game without needing us to do anything?
Bioware had this planned since the beginning of Mass Effect and I think they wanted to give an ending to fans that doesn’t epicly conclude the mass effect series, but an ending that gives people something to think about. They wanted to give people the final combat against the reapers inside Shepard’s head. They wanted to give people more questions, so that they could sell more games to explain they’re series. The ending of Mass Effect 3 is the most obvious one but the hole series have second stories that you should look for. I think Bioware wanted people to take with themselves the explanation for the ending that most fits them and I think they were surprised with the lack of intelligence of people that want to play RPG games with great stories. The hole game is more light in story because they wanted us to look at the ending and say: “Hey, something here is wrong. Whats happening here?”. They wanted to make something different. Not another Star Trek/Wars thing.
And people, instead of start thinking about the ending, say: “WTF???”, throw the game away and start posting comments about how bad the ending is, while it is the best part of the game. And then, you say that Bioware is not loyal with its fans while you say the game is a piece of shit because you don’t understand the ending.
SPOILERS:
There’s a critical flaw in the indoctrination theory.
The Prothean VI Vendetta, the one you find on the Asari Homeworld that Cerberus kidnaps, clearly is able to distinguish between indoctrinated and non-indoctrinated presences. It calls Kai Lang indoctrinated and disappears when he shows up, yet freely volunteers information about the Catalyst to Shepard. If Shep is indoctrinated, then why does this happen?
I think, unfortunately, that it’s much more likely that there are just a lot of flaws and plot holes. I’m willing to be you could take just about any significant segment in this game and pick it apart to find dozens of inconsistencies or bits that make no sense. I hope I’m wrong, but I just don’t see this being true.
The prothean AI doesn’t believe Shepard. If you take Javik to Thessia, that is if you have the From Ashes DLC, the VI only accepts to give Shepard the information when Javik says that he could trust Shepard. Also, Shepard’s indoctrination is only complete at the final sequence, so Shepard wasn’t officially indoctrinated.
This only gives us more reasons to say that the game is incomplete if you don’t buy the DLC.
The Prothean AI doesn’t believe Shepard about it “not being too late” whether Javik is there or not. However, it freely volunteers tons of information to Shepard. Yet when Kai Lang arrives it says “Indoctrinated presence detected.” and locks down, activating a sort of defense mode.
If Shep’s indoctrinated, why does it only go into alert when Kai Lang shows up?
Either way, I agree that there’s a long list of things to cite that this game feels very unfinished.
I for one believe the Indoctrination Theory. What I can’t seem to wrap round my head is the fact that Bioware would sell us 2 games; Mass Effect 3 and Mass Effect 3: The endings, when clearly is should’ve been one game.
Does EA really corrupt everything it touches?
I have come to the conclusion:
if BIOWARE doesnt release alternate endings that can be chosen based on your path and at least 1 that is neutral I am done buying their games and canceling star warrs republic.
We need:
A PARAGON ending
A RENEGADE ending
A Neutral ending
if they try to SELL US the ending im done. No questions asked and uninstalling Mass effect 1 and 2 from steam.
This is BULLSHIT
The clues to the truth of this theory are far too subtle for BioWare’s narritive. Even if it was intended, this still doesn’t change the fact of that the Narrative of the over all series was thrown out for the ending to eliminate the work load that BioWare set itself up for.
I still stick to my guns in that BioWare has become increasingly lazier in their time with EA.
we can’t forget that bioware is not opposed to looking over game lore, quarians government structure, so anything that supports this theory from the first game has be taken with a grain of salt. biowares already thrown out the script that would have fit will in the game series for instance the human reaper and dark energy which was supposed to be the premise of the story but was apparently tossed.
I’m concerned with how this plays out, I don’t think people will be happy with the results, I put nothing past Biow…… I mean EA. EA owns bioware and controls them so the company has to conform thats why jessica chobot was in the game to show the control EA has over bioware.
sorry ranting a bit, was watching the top 5 reason mass effect would suck at the same time as typing this lol.
I just want to say great work Joe.
I write for the website gamersguidetolife.com and we did an extensive piece dedicated to discussing this theory on indoctrination and some of the websites that didn’t even mention it.
http://www.gamersguidetolife.com/2012/03/editingkotaku-angry-joe-gamefront-and.html
Your name was put into the article based off your “Top 10 Reasons Why We Hate Mass Effect 3′s Endings.” Since it took a while to write, you have since posted this article which obviously means you’ve explored and accepted other avenues than just blind hate.
I respect you as a critic and wanted to thank you for expanding your opinion instead of remaining steadfast about your initial opinion. Thanks for being awesome.
So, you fucktards think that it’s not at all possible it’s just bad? INDOFTWLALALALALALALALA PISS OFF
Trolls, step away from the keyboard and a girl may go on a date with you.
Replaying the first game, and when you talk to the rachni queen she also talks about oily shadows silencing the song of the rest of her people. Which gives more proof to the dreams are indoctrination theory.
I am begining to HATE “Idoctrination Theorists”. They have become so wound up and entagled in it, and they truely believe that BioWare couldn’t possibly have just wrote a bad ending, that anyone who disagrees with them, or points out flaws with Indo, is instantly wrong, or one of a very long list of expletives.
I said this before and i’ll say it again, this is being done on purpose to leave the game open and set it up for a new mass effect MMO.
EA boycott back in place
One ore thing: The song playing during the credits is “Das Malefitz”, an extremely rare German expression for “Renegade action”. I kinda like the thought that a) this is the right choice to make and b) that’s what Bioware did by planning this right from the start.
Nay, I’m sure it’s mere coincidence
this is cool too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv8XMX2ITt4&feature=related
check this out Joe
http://www.themetagames.com/2012/03/why-you-enjoy-art-and-one-problem-with.html thx again for all your hard work.
I noticed when the ‘God-Child’ was explaining the different options to the player, it showed Anderson shooting out the power to destroy the Reapers, while it showed the Illusive Man moving forward to control them. Plays into what Joe was talking about as Anderson being the strong will, and the Illusive Man as giving in.
I agree that their holding back the real ending, as DLC content so they can make money even when the game is on the used game market. I also see them adding 2 or 3 reorganized campaign maps as “new” multiplayer content, and they would charge roughly $15-$20 for this “Great Deal!”
Honestly… I don’t find it too hard to see it all as just lazy and horrid writing on Bioware’s part. Dragon Age 2′s ending was rather craptastic and devoid of any real choice either (as was a good majority of the game I think). And while I know the dev teams are different, the company is the same and you have to attribute some modicum of responsibility to the heads who are okaying it all.
I would love to see the Indoctrination Theory be the reality of the situation. Yet I feel like it isn’t, or it wasn’t meant to be. Bioware may hastily nod their head and go “oh yea sure that was our idea from the start!”, but think of it this way. Husks are, for all intents and purposes, a synthesis of living and synthetics, so for all we know the eye shines are just a side effect of the synthetic fusing, not reaper control manifestations. So the Control and Synthesis option requires Shepard himself to further become a fusion of the two.
As for Shepard not limping as he goes for the Destroy Option? It’s because it makes him look more badass. He isn’t limping towards death, he’s taking it in stride! The little gasp at the end of the “extra” scene could be nothing more than just a cop-out for waving off detractors of single-player content, and again cause it makes him look cool.
this theory is fascinating, but saren of mass effect 1 was indoctrinated and didnt had those crazy eyes…
I haven’t played ME1 in a while but I’m almost certain he did…
hes a turian and his eyes did glow blue just not in the same way TIM’s and sheps did
now that i remember jaled’s stories about his crew(from what i understand he was protean-shepard in his cycle) got indoctrinated and he had to kill them. wouldn’t it be cool if the same happened to us? forcing to kill zombie garrus would probably bring some tear to my eye
another thing, why would bioware want the probably best storied game end? it starts great, goes on great but it ends as if they just wanted to patch it up and get rid of it -.- !
This makes WAY too much sense, but you have to wonder, is Bioware really clever enough to think of something like this? And the thing is, they kind of are. I mean, if it was another developer who was less talented in storytelling and writing, I could just dismiss a theory like this as incompetence and shabby writing on the developer’s part. But Bioware is pretty talented when it comes to writing and storytelling, and Mass Effect 3′s plot was pretty good. I think the only real plothole before the ending was how Joker could walk and dance, but that’s not so unexplainable (there’s also the stuff with the child, but that plays into the ending). And Anderson not being on the council no matter what wasn’t technically a plothole; you could’ve picked Udina. So for the ending (especially such an important ending) to be so uncharacteristically bad and full of plotholes, it would make sense that it tied into some meta-game concept that explained it all away, and I think Bioware would be capable of coming up with something like that. And as Joe brings up, Bioware is changing the ending, so that just adds to this theory. But the thing is, did they always intend to? Again, maybe Bioware actually thought this ending was good, but because of all of the backlash, they realize now that they slipped up and decided to rectify it. But that’s not like Bioware. And that would mean that Bioware thought of this whole indoctrination thing way before Mass Effect 3 and purposely pissed people off with a false ending to make some extra cash off of DLC, which is pretty unfortunate but isn’t such a stretch. So I guess that’s where I’m torn between, like in Mass Effect 3, choosing between two crappy alternatives (yeah, I know there’s three choices in ME3, just run with the simile): either Bioware uncharacteristically screwed up where it mattered most, or they finally sold out and put their fans second. Regardless, their fix had better be good, and they should use this as the standard because it actually works well
Well I`ve whander since ME2 (derelict reaper mission) how that Shepard has not experience indoctrination,sice he has always been close to reapers and stuff like that,at that time I thought that it had to do something with the fact that he touched the protean beacons,but Saren touched the beacon to and he was still indoctrinated,sio that explanation pretty much fails.
Now I love Mass Effect,all 3 games,I had my disagrment with the changes that the series sufferd but as a true ME fan I know that I played that game not for it`s gameplay,not for the RPG or the action elements. I`ve played ME for it`s story,for the relation that you can make with the companions,for the desicions that counted over the first,second and third game.
I have waited for this game with so much anticipation,I wanted to see an ending to all that I have done in the first 2 games,I wanted to see the Reapers burn(esspecialy after “Take back Earth” trailer) I wanted to see what happends with the caracter that I LOVED,and what happends to that galaxy in the end.
For all that I say that ME3 ENDING is dissapointing.I hope that this theory is right,and….I don`t know maybe this is some kind of “trolling” BioWare.
I do not want to accept that BioWare after the games that they have provided,from Star Wars:KOTOR, Jade Empire, Dragon Aage, and others….that they could have done something like this…..
But somewhere in my heart I feel that they have acctualy done it and I think that this indoctrination theory might be the only thing that will save them,and I also think that the fans are the one who saved them here(if they acctualy come with a Epilogue DLC )
If the Epilogue DLC comes out IT BETTER BE DANM GOOD, and I hope it comes out with some APPOLOGISES,and hope it comes free.
In the end I fell hurted by the guys I trusted so much……(also sorry for my english,not my birth language
)
im replaying the first two games, hopefully, by the time i get to the third they will have fixed this crap. Or i’ll just imagine the ending i see fit and call it at that
i hope that leak isnt true, i probably just havent read enough of it, but it doesnt sound like something that would make me forgive bioware
Ok, say the indoctrination theory is true. If Shep is unconscious on Earth the whole time, then how do the Reapers get destroyed?
If Shep is unconscious, then the Reapers won right?
the new ending DLC that will probeblys soon be anounced is the true ending (IF THIS THEORY HOLDS WATER) that is where you will destory the reapers
anyone remembers the collector headed bug bodied “assuming control” guy who spoke in shepard’s brain directly? it ain’t a collector by default and there is no way it is indoctrinated since it can “assume control” and “speak in mind directly”. something is fucking with everyone’s thoughts about syntetic vs organics bs while ripping us in shreds in entire game but there you go your reaper folks: the buggy bodied collector guy which assumes control is a reaper
!
i found this on a site says they were a former bioware site just thought id post it
A few hours ago, I posted a possible leak source from 4chan/v/ regarding Bioware’s plans for the ending, which is here (I’d include it, but it’s too long). More information is now available.
y.m. !ad7SQLiiVQ 03/25/12(Sun)04:40 No.2441036
Last night I leaked the only available digital details of Terminator and Mass
Shift. After speaking with a close friend who is an attorney, I’ve decided
to take the risk of of expounding.
I am a virtual lightning technician who has been working for BioWare for over 8
years now. I’ve been the sole creator of the lighting partitions of all of
BioWare’s engines and engine plugins in recent years. In layman’s terms, I am
a very specific kind of graphics artist.
I am no longer a part of the companies in question.
My reasoning for the leak was to draw attention to what BioWare has become. The
company, for about 5 years now, has been dominated by EA Games’ strict timetables
and budget restraints. I’d like to express my continuing admiration of BioWare and
the entirety of its staff–the most talented staff I’ve had the priviledge to work
with in my career, which spans 19 years. My admiration for them is why I even
bother to draw attention to the predicament that the company now faces.
I am not a doomsayer. BioWare likely has a successful road ahead of them, but the
money stops mattering so much when female colleagues get off the phone with EA
upper management crying over threats of replacement. The success stops mattering
when a dark cloud hangs over a team that is doing the best with the restraints
that have been placed upon them. Nothing was more heartbreaking than the moment
when Dragon Age 2, which was not yet in alpha status, was shipped out the
door. I thought that was a one-time thing, but it is becoming clear that that was
just the beginning.
To the staff: Though you and I are both under contract, know that EA will not
pursue you if you simply stand together. You are the most talented people in the
industry and every publisher would be honored to have you.
y.m. !ad7SQLiiVQ 03/25/12(Sun)04:41 No.2441074
To the fans: Please do not be discouraged by what little PR EA allows to get out.
You haven’t spoken to BioWare, the real meat of the company, in over 5 years.
BioWare is still full of people who love video games, who want to put passion into
their games–but they are being stifled. Don’t be angry with BioWare. Be angry
with those who are stifling them. But your anger isn’t enough. Speak with your
money. It’s the only language EA Games understands. I know it can be very hard to
resist falling for pre-order and DLC ploys, but it must be done. Your forum posts
and petitions are meaningless when compared to the simple dollar.
–
I’d like to clarify some things about the leak:
- The leak is the content of a digital blackboard we have at the office. It’s the
first thing you see when you walk into Production. It’s right next to our
storyboards. Only the director and writers can edit the outline, but the entire
team is asked to make suggestions throughout development. The outline always
changes dramatically during development. Sometimes, major plot twists are totally
changed, or characters are removed. Generally, the artists and the director have
the final say. You may think that it’s odd that artists have so much power, but
throwing away completed models and other assets that have consumed a lot of time
is frowned upon. If they’ve worked on something long enough, they are going to
implement it somehow.
- Like in most development cycles, the outline is relatively abandoned right now,
replaced by the storyboards. But I can’t exactly take the storyboards off of the
walls and scan them.
y.m. !ad7SQLiiVQ 03/25/12(Sun)04:41 No.2441101
- Terminator is a post-ending DLC. It’s been in production for months. Javik was
originally from Terminator, but they bumped him up because they felt that ME3′s
cast was too small. Terminator is about the party crash landing on a Prothean
planet on the edge of Sol, and then they have to figure out a way to make contact
with the rest of the system and get off of the planet.
- When they do get spaceborne, they return to Earth, which is gripped in a war.
Certain species are demanding they be allowed to take the most advanced space
ships out of the system, because Sol cannot support them. There is also mass panic
because the relay transport system has been destroyed, and Sol’s remaining resources
are going to run out in less than a year.
- Shepard has been found on Earth, but he is badly injured and in a coma. He was
burned badly during atmospheric re-entry, and certain synthetic components of his
brain were shut down. Chakwas is certain that if he ever awakens, it will be in a
vegetative state.
- At this point, it is suggested that Shepard’s broken synthetic parts could be
replaced with new ones. The party then splits up, and you go to three different
planets/areas to find synthetic components that may be able to help him.
- It is revealed that one of the valid components can be extracted from EDI. Joker
allows them to do so.
y.m. !ad7SQLiiVQ 03/25/12(Sun)04:42 No.2441128
- Though still badly wounded, after the synthetic pieces are installed, Shepard
finally awakens. He makes a speech at the Spacescraper (a piece of the Citadel
that crash landed on Earth along with Shepard, now used as a center of
operations) that ends the Sol War. After that, you get a unique cutscene based
on who you did or did not romance in ME3.
- This is not addressed in the Terminator DLC, but from the moment Shepard comes
out of the coma, he is the Catalyst. Shepard permanently died during atmospheric
re-entry. The characters and the player in Terminator are unaware that it is not
the real Shepard, and this will not be revealed until Mass Shift, the spiritual
successor to the Mass Effect series.
- Mass Shift is not Mass Effect 4. Mass Shift will involve the same universe,
characters, and story, but it will be more action-oriented. Space flight, for
example, will be as intricate as ME3′s combat. In Mass Shift, you will actively fly
Murmur, a Reaper that is controlled by the Catalyst. Storyboards have not been
drawn up for exactly how this will work yet, but when we came up with the initial
concept, we were comparing flight to “Gradius III and Kingdom Hearts 2″, and the
relationship between the Catalyst and Murmur was compared to the one between the
boy and the monster in “The Last Guardian”.
- Xy was actually going to be a DLC character for Mass Effect 2, but he was axed in
favor of Kasumi, who was modeled after the sister of a staff member who kept baking
the entire staff cookies. They’re introducing him in Mass Shift instead.
y.m. !ad7SQLiiVQ 03/25/12(Sun)04:43 No.2441150
- BioWare has been meaning to introduce a main character suicide plot element for some
time now. They intended to do this with Kaidan/Ashley in Mass Effect 2, wrought with
guilt over the death of the other, but this idea was discarded when the director felt
that it would be too forced, and that players would feel as though BioWare simply
killed them off so that they wouldn’t have to deal with their character branches
anymore.
- Though the details are very sketchy at this point, Mass Shift revolves around
the Catalyst (who now inhabits the body of Shepard), who seeks to prevent the
galaxy from advancing synthetics. This pits the Catalyst against virtually the
entire galaxy, which is quickly forgetting about the threat that synthetics pose.
The Catalyst, throughout the game, will endure inner turmoil caused by
his “other side” (EDI), who carries the belief that synthetics and organics can
peacefully co-exist.
- Mass Shift will feature more tactical combat, but with less cover. For example,
Filbert, while slow on the battlefield, can create a sphere of biotic energy around
himself that can repel a certain amount of fire. This will allow party members to
stand around him to receive all kinds of interesting “buffs”.
- Other minor things have changed. For example, storyboards indicate that Asad
Grim, Mass Shift’s primary (but not final–he joins your team) antagonist does not
wear a typical Volus suit. You will be able to see most of his body.
- Mass Shift takes place about one millennium after the events of ME3.
- Note that branching is the last stage of development. BioWare always begins with
a canonical outline, and then adjusts the outline details to accommodate player
choice in most scenarios.
y.m. !ad7SQLiiVQ 03/25/12(Sun)04:53 No.2441505
Witch Hunt is a Dragon Age DLC. It caused an in-house ****storm because of canon
issues. An employee quit over it. It’s used as a reference for how to “correctly”
deal with design plans that may interfere with player choice. It has nothing to do
with Mass Effect.
I don’t know what Dragon Age: Return is, but Dragon Age 3 is codename “Redfish” right
now. It’s in development.
This is the last you will hear from me. Bye.
This info comes from these two sites
http://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/rcl7e/more_possible_leaked_information/
http://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/rcfen/possible_leak_regarding_new_ending_dlc/
I do not now if it fake or not, but for me it makes much more sense then the indoctrination theory. Can’t say I like it though, does not sound like a kind of story I would want.
“- Shepard has been found on Earth, but he is badly injured and in a coma. He was burned badly during atmospheric re-entry, and certain synthetic components of his brain were shut down. Chakwas is certain that if he ever awakens, it will be in a vegetative state.” -proof of bullshit. According to this Shepard survived: 1. Citadel explosion 2. vaccum of space 3. atmospheric re-entry 4. gravity+jagged rubble. Not only that but he just happened to land right back in London? Oh and its from 4-chan so you know its bs right off the bat. I call bullshit on the “leak”, but it was an entertaining read so thx for that.
The indoctrination theory does not alleviate the ending. The majority of your points is not addressed. Why did Joker leave? What did happen to the victory fleet? The relays? The galaxy? And, what is real and what is false?
It is still shitty unfortunately.
EVERYTHING that happened after Harbinger’s beam wasn’t real according to the indoctrination theory. The Mass Relays didn’t explode, the Reapers (Supposedly) weren’t defeated, and Joker didn’t leave. It was all a fight in Shepard’s mind over the indoctrination’s effects. Though the whole part with Joker confused me because I have no idea why Shepard would imagine that…
he wanted to see his team his team get away safly he imaginens they are safly off world
Personally i think that the three options on the citadel aren’t what Shepard is doing to the Reapers, but what the Reapers are going to do to humanity. Shepard is choosing humanity’s fate; to be controlled as husks, to be synthesised into more reapers, or to be destroyed. Hence, if you don’t put up enough of a fight, (low EMS) the Reapers aren’t interested in you, and your only option is destruction. However, if your EMS is high, the Reapers find humanity worthy of being turned into Reapers. The reason you don’t wake up with Synthesis or Control is that the Reapers just take control of your mind and turn you into a husk/Reaper, but if you choose Destroy, the Reapers release control so you will be destroyed with the rest of humanity, and therefore you wake up.
Anyway, that’s my bit to add to the theory
It is not “all right” to release a game with a fake ending then sell us (or even give us) the “real ending” at a later date.
We paid for a complete game and EA/Bioware should have provided that in the original release.
Regardless of their original plans, any new ending will now seem like they are pandering to the masses. They have already burned their bridge with many and I hope that enough gamers boycott and ending DLC to send a clear msg to them that they seriously messed up.
If companies sell us a game is should be complete. This DLC trend needs to end with this debacle! It is obvious that companies like EA will abuse gamers with DLC, only by us voting NO with our wallets and NOT paying for more DLC will game companies stop removing missions from games to sell to us on Day 1.
Say NO to paying for DLC!
there’s one extremely important thing i believe everyone seems to be missing, and its right in front of all of us.
how the hell is Shepard breathing in space?! when hes making the final decision hes clearly in space with no helmet! hes not “really high up” earth is above him and the space ships are between him and the planet, so hes clearly outside of the earths atmosphere with no air, he should be dead, more than dead! his head should have exploded!
[...] Asi es, pese a quien le pese. Pero como se que para algunos no es suficiente y quieren una explicación mucho mas paranóica (y hasta cierto punto lógica) de los eventos que pasaron al final del juego, aqui les dejo el enlace que les prometí: *QUE TIENE MUCHOS SPOILERS DE MASS EFFECT 3*. [...]
Yo Joe,
The Indoctrination Theory might work except for one huge plot hole, the Prothean AI on Thessia. The AI engages into its security protocol the moment it sense the presence of an indoctrinated person, Lang. If Shep was indoctrinated, the AI would never have allowed access. And I downloaded Javik and I would believe that he would be able to sense the Indoctrination of Shep when he made contact with him.
I think Bioware and EA have put themselves into a no-win scenario. Either they release a DLC that goes along with the Indoctrination theory, making pretty much everything you do in ME3 a dream, in which case they cheapen the entire game, not just the ending. Or they try to tie up the numerous loose ends of the ending with a more thorough ending, in which case the fans will jump on it as proof that there was nothing special to the ending that Bioware has been alluding to in their posts.
And the DLC better be free, because with all the flak they are taking from this ending and then they decide to charge you to see the ending, the firestorm that the ending created will be nothing like the one this would stir up if they made us pay for the ending. I wouldn’t even be surprised if some people called on Anonymous to crash both Bioware’s and EA’s sites in retribution for the shameless money grab. And what would happen if they did make us pay for it is that everyone would wait for someone dumb enough to have bought the ending and then post it on YouTube or some other site and watch it there, saving another $10.
That “plothole” is easily explained away. The VI can only detect advanced indoctrination. This is supported by comments that Javik makes, as well as Vigil during ME1. Shepard’s level of indoctrination was too subtle for the VI to detect.
You need to go back and replay Cerberus Base.
Shepard asked for Vendetta to tell him/her what the catalyst is.
Vendetta’s reply: “Security protocols disabled. I will comply.”
Now why, when the VI had already agreed to help them on Thessia was it obliged to mention it’s security protocols in regards to releasing the info to Shepard now? Because the effects of indoctrination were probably just starting to get strong enough for the VI to sense.
Even though Javik likes to claim he can sense it because of this sensory communication crap, he can’t. If he could, no sleeper agents could possible infiltrate Prothian society. Liara has the best chance of sensing it, and at the end, during the gift, I’m pretty sure she does on some level. She also likely knew there was nothing she could say or do about it. It was Sheps fight.
I mean, any plot hole can easily be explained away if the writers bother to take a little time with it. That said, the advanced indoctrination idea doesn’t really work for me. Almost every indoctrination theory I’ve heard involves Shepard becoming indoctrinated either during Arrival or earlier. If the indoctrination is serious enough to be giving Shepard full blown visual and auditory hallucinations (the little boy) how could it be in a subtle phase still? Moreover, even if it were, that would mean that Shepard goes from subtle to advanced indoctrination in a matter of maybe a week or twp tops? (the time from Thessia to the endgame, hard to judge precisely) Also, it’s not like Lang is a full blown Reaper-drone-cyborg when he shows up, he still has a modicum of free will too.
Also, this has been making the rounds and it feels relevant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rBJZn9UlFk
When I reached the end of the game, the most suitable option for me was synthesis. I didn’t pick it appart but I new there was something really wrong, Everything after the Harbinger beam hit and my Sheppard “woke up” just felt surreal. In retrospect, very clever of Bioware. I didn’t have a name for it but I had a feeling that it was a “false” or misleading ending of some sort. Bioware would simply not create this type of “lazy” conclusion without some sort of agenda. After watching your latest analysis of the story, I have no doubt that the intent of the ending was to introduce the indoctrination plot line.
Well I am very thankful for the DLC outcome to this hellish event that unfold………..BUT WTF WTF WTF WT BLOODY GODDAMN FUCK BIOWARE & EA YOU FOOLS! I’ll explain what that was about just now. I’ve spoken with a great deal of fans, members of various websites & even a few inside sources about this video joe has made. The info I gathered from all that work…………….points that this could have been avoided……….by HAVING A BETTER FAKE ENDING THAT WOULD ACKNOWLEDGE THAT SOMETHING’S NOT RIGHT & EVEN POINT OUT THE LIKELY HOOD OF THEIR BEING……..oh I don’t know DLC FOR THE TRUE FUCKING ENDING!! 6 out of 10 of total people I spoke with had a common point to well point out. It was a common opinion that went something like this. “Bioware & EA likely had the true ending setup for various scenarios & well they DLC ending was the scenario that to be a reality.” I got this from my inside sources. “I was fully aware of the endings in mass effect 3. I can see how loyality & love for the series rose the instant it became fully viewable to the public, but all I can say about this series of events are up to you to decide. But to me this game’s dlc does exist & is in the works, many of Bioware & EA’s staff knew this was risky for this meant the fans would begin rage fits & well they were right.” That is enough for me to conclude that various views & reasons are within this game’s development. I will watch this unfold in the meantime. This data in this comment alone are enough to raise many things.
One more point (at least in the pc version) about the things omitted by people. The Renegade choices marker in the middle of cutscenes appears on the left side of the screen, while the paragon ones appear on the right side of the screen, where Controll (left), Synthesis (middle), and Destroy (right). Just a loose thing I forgot to put in my previous post.
OMGGG
http://tbreak.com/megamers/55963/news/ex-bioware-employee-leaks-info-on-mass-effect-3s-post-ending-dlc/
A few things no one pays attention to:
1)The child, prior to running into the ship, looks at the reaper and “nods” at it. Just watch it again and tell me that isn’t the case.
2)When charging at the beam, at one point, look behind you, your two quadmates are just standing at an invisible wall, looking blankly into space…how odd…(raises their chances of survival though)
3)Keepers never pay attention to anyone, never look around, never do anything but work…and when Shep is ported into the citadel, the Keeper turns around and looks at him/her…what the fish?
Would be nice if someone ever mentioned those anywhere.
Awesome work Joe, hope you keep it up for years to come
-Raziel
1) It could have just been the movement his head made as he turned around.
2) Bad AI?
3) If you were a janitor and all of a sudden the place you worked at was locked down and everyone was dead then someone materialized next to you, would you at least glance over at them? And plus it’s all in Shepard’s mind, so it doesn’t really matter anyway.
1)Ok, point taken, but (stupid quote inspired by South Park), we cannot prove that it wasn’t a nod. But seriously, it would make some sense.
2)Yeah, I suspect that, or it was intentional, for all those that would raise another sh**storm about how the 2 with you survived
3)Yeah, If I was a human janitor, but notice how the Keepers from game 1 to game 3 don’t give a sh*t about anything around them except work. Yeah, it happened in shephards mind, but if we follow the Indoctrination Theory, this is another strong point of the surreality of it all (I noticed it on the second playthrough, after watching/reading bout IT, and I was looking for out-of-place stuff everywhere)
I believe in indoctrination theory. I finished ME3 today. Before I finished it, I had tried to avoid anything which could reveal what had yet been waiting for me. So when I watched certain videos on ME3 (I wanted to see alternative ways to my choices) I closed them as soon as they could reveal the upcomming events. Before I ended ME3, I noticed certain reactions indicated what Shepard would become indoctrinated (but without anything else).
Then when playing ME3 I noticed may things which support indoctrination theory. When I was confronted with 3 options I wanted to kill the reapers. However, I missed which choise is which. Therefore, I chose “paragon” option and then I realized that this was not what I intended to do. I had to replay it (I had a save before beam to citadel; I changed a difficulty from insanity to the easiest one since the maurader with shield was pissing me off – and when I was killed I had to listen to long “dialog”, then play for a few seconds and then wait again!!!) and to choose renegade option to kill the reapers (I was only sorry that it would kill the geth).
However, I do not understand why the reapers would want to indoctrinate Shepard when humanity and galaxy is lost. How would they use indoctrinated Shepard in their plans after they have won?
As Miranda said, Shepard is an icon, a leader. With him indoctrinated, everyone could just follow him, believing they were fighting the Reapers. Instead, they were headed right to their trap.
I cant tell you, how much I want this to be true… It is a tempting theory, but I still think that EA rushing the development team, and bad writing is the more likely explanation. I hope I’m wrong, but if the ending stays the way it is, I’m afraid Bioware has lost a customer…
I totally agree with everything said, but there’s one thing that’s missing in this video thou..
After the credits, in the scene where the “Stargazer” and the child are talking, the last words were:
Child: Tell me another story about the Shepard.
Stargazer: It’s getting late, but.. Ok. One more story.
Just the last three words (One more story), have been said with such a passion, that I just don’t believe it’s coincidence.
“this has all the makings of a conspiracy” – jesse ventura
I would of thought that why they show shepard the outcome of his choice (Reapers [X,Y,Z], Mass Relays blowing up/ failing, Normandy crashing ect) is because, if they DID plan the Indoc. Theory to leave the rest of the “ending” as DLC, without it they would essentially be ending the game with a cut-to-black the moment shepard made his choice. Now true, the endings were lazy and offered no closure to what happens, but think of it like this. If it cut to black after making a choice, maybe with the scene where Shepard breaths, it would be WORSE than the endings we got. What BioWare probably did was slap on a half arsed filler to give the player something to dwell upon until the DLC came out. Something that would at least give us some sort of “end,” whether good or bad, just so it has SOME kind of conclusion. Then remember also that not every gamer has access to internet. How are they going to download this “new ending” if they don’t have XBox live or what ever? Really, the reason for it was just that BioWare wanted an ending in SOME form, just so the game doesn’t REQUIRE the DLC to end Shepards story (I mean, you don’t actually need it, but it’s coming close to just being cut-off-content like From Ashes). Unfortunately, it was terrible, and now they have to try EXTRA hard to make this epilogue DLC work, otherwise fans will hate them even more if it’s not up to 100% BioWare standards.
i actually feel bad …!
because if my choise is wrong (mine was the middle one)
then in real positions i might do this mistake too !!
i still dont like the idea of releasing an unfinished game just so you could release the ending later..
bioware said they are making dlc to the ending but its going to be exended
I wish indoctrination was AN ending. It would be satisfying even if it was THE only ending, but its not, you have to do much to get to that conclusion.
I’m not saying everything has to spelled out for us, but its almost like trying to go along with a Conspiracy Theory. The best ones always have bits and pieces that make perfect sense however it all doesn’t fit with everything else.