Posted on: Wednesday, March 21st, 2012
Posted in: Featured
Comments: 746
Indoctrination Theory & Proof of ME3 Ending DLC
I’ve got a huge amount of responses regarding Mass Effect 3 Ending, maybe you are tired of talking about it, but I find myself engrossed. Chief among the explanations for the nonsensical ending is the “Indoctrination Theory” which explains away the ending by saying Shepard is hallucinating everything. I was severely skeptical so I poured myself into researching the topic and the following is what I’ve discovered!
Indoctrination Theory or no, I’m convinced Epilogue DLC is on its way. That’s either good or bad depending on your point of view.
if you people knew all the stuff we are planning you’d, we’ll – hold onto your copy of me3 forever.” -Michael Gamble's Twitter Account
From where I’m standing, I love the series so much, I hope it’s true, that it’s free, and that they never pull this shit again.
Big Thanks goes to many people for engaging in discussion with me and having such dedication to an enjoyable dissection of the game.
Do you believe in the Indoctrination Theory? Or do you think these are fans who as grasping at straws looking at Mass Effect’s Lore for any reason to throw out our current ending? If you do believe in the theory, do you think its right for a company to break off the real ending from a game and offer it as DLC (real or not) at a later date?
Big Thanks to these Sources:
ACAVYOS 21min Youtube Video Indoctrination Theory Explanation
Fan Complied Google Document
Bioware Social Network Indoctrination Theory Support Thread
Bioware Social Network Indoctrination Detractors Thread (Must be signed in)
Indoctrinated Shepard Artwork
- Related Posts:
-
Metro: Last Light Angry Review
May 17, 2013
-
Guns Of Icarus TGS Battle Royale!
May 11, 2013
-
Angry Rant: Metro LL Charges $5 for Hard Mode!
May 11, 2013
-
Guns of Icarus Preview & Kickstarter
May 8, 2013
Gaming Comics
Glue
Unjust Battles
The Confessionist
Fight the Biscuit!
Crummy Deal
Recent Reviews
- Metro: Last Light Angry Review
May 17, 2013 
Star Command iOS Angry Review
May 6, 2013
Star Trek The Game Angry Review
April 30, 2013
Injustice Angry Review
April 19, 2013
Defiance Angry Review
April 12, 2013
Partners
746 thoughts on “Indoctrination Theory & Proof of ME3 Ending DLC”
So, now we know that there will be free dlc for the ending, but one that was not planned from the get-go, as they apparently had to reprioritize all their dlc plans. Which, I guess, in turn shoots down the indoctrination theory. A pity, really, but it was too good to be true. Once again a beatiful lie has been killed by the ugly truth, so to speak.
Actually, if I were in charge over at Bioware, I’d have said: “YES, that totally was our intention, honest! You saw through our plan to make you feel as confused and angry as an indoctrinated Sheppard! Have some free DLC to show you the REAL ending. Coming this summer.” while secretly marshalling everyone in the company to hammer out this dlc as quickly as possible. They’d look a LOT better in front of fans and investors alike if they just lied.
So. I actually believe in this theory. I remember when ME3 was announced, Bioware said it was not going to be the last game in the Mass Effect universe, but the last game in the “Shepard story arc”. So, maybe the ME3 ending is really all inside Shepard’s mind, because in ME the player assumes the role of Commander Shepard, whose role ended in that sequence, hallucinating. That would mean this is not the end… And maybe not a DLC coming, but a brand new game with more ten of hours of play. I’m not sure I’ll be happy or angry if this is the case.
Apparently, there is a DLC on the way; planned to release “this” summer. Not very sure how legit it is…but here are the two sources spotlighting them:
http://blog.bioware.com/author/dlarke/
http://www.slashgear.com/new-mass-effect-3-ending-coming-in-extended-cut-dlc-05221706/
I couldnt agree more with Angryj on this.If the player base doesn’t stand up now and refuse to buy this new ending then its in real danger of becomeing trend.And if that happens then we can expect to see alot more 60$ half games.
Its tempting as hell for me to buy it.If only to see if i will get to see the N7 tat on Jacks ass.But i feel extremely cheated as a long time bioware gamer.I’ve bought the entire Dragonage series and all its dlc.All of mass effect and all of its dlc and im subbed to SWTOR right now.
it’s brilliant writing especially if you don’t realize all that’s in shepherd’s head the first time you’re playing through it, and they pretty much, in my mind, had no other option from the beginning of all this talk about pleasing fans but to release a free ending dlc.
How is premeditatively screwing over your customers “brilliant”?
Its “brilliantly” bad, underhanded, and disgraceful… i can agree on that.
if they dont fix the ending and try to sell a dlc real ending….
judging from the polls being 80-90% people who feel cheated and HATE the ending and RESENTFUL of being bullshitted, i think many of us arent buying their games anymore…so they can enjoy their “brilliant” move and lose half to 3/4 their fan base.
i think it’s a brilliant lead into an ending if the indoctrination theory is correct, but if starting from the moment he’s gunned down by harbinger all the way to the end is happening in his head, then what happens to the reapers. if he’s still on earth then the citidel never opened and so the reapers still win. right?
@AJ
The secret ending is Shep wakeing up.If you never played 1 or 2 and did a fresh playthrough on 3 then you couldnt meet the requirements to get that ending.You had to do a new game + so you started with elevated reputation.Doing a ME2 import acts like a new game+.
to anyone that doesnt know doing a ME1 and 2 import save dramaticly changes the game.People and decisions you made in both will show up in 3 whereas they wont if you dont.And most show up as assets.
I find the theory interesting, but one thing bugs me is the insistance that a Mass Relay being destroyed MUST take out a star system like the Alpha Relay did. The Alpha Relay was slammed with a giant rock which is very different to the three Mass Effect 3 endings.
During the endings I’d say the Relays are being destroyed by one of two things; an overload from outputting the energy or an internal self-destruct. In the case of The Arrival the Relay is destroyed by cracking it in such a way that releases all the stored up energy.
The Relays weren’t just being shot with a massive blast of energy and exploding, they were taking a signal, doing what they were told, passing on the signal and then exploding. To me that screams controlled shutdown. Do what they’re told, safely drain any remaining energy, then destroy the frame with a conventional explosion.
Even if they were being overloaded they’ve still just expended a ridiculous amount of energy. The Alpha Relay was just sitting there with 100% charge which it released when the damage caused it to become unstable. The ending Relays had just finished outputting an astronomical amount of energy so it’s safe to say they’d be drained.
Think of them like water balloons. If you just throw a rock at them they’ll pop and get water everywhere, but if you untie the end you can simply drain the water out then tear the balloon up. Another example might be demolishing a power plant. If you do it while everything is still powered up you’re going to cause some probelms, but if you shut the station down and do things by book you can demolish a power plant without destroying the surrounding area.
It’s not very important to Indoctrination Theory, or any other theory, but I’ve seen the idea that a Relay can’t be destroyed without taking out all life around it brought up way too many times as a plot hole when I really don’t think it is.
A second SECRET ENDING to the game? is this true?
The following qoute is from the Mass Effect 3 Collector’s Edition Strategy guide on page 323 regarding the end of the game, “A secret ending is also available to players who complete the game a second time.”
Dunno if this is true…but since we get the SHEP BREATHING on play thru 1, what is this “secret ending” mentioned?
Yea I went back and replayed ME 2 just finished it. I did a COMPLETE play thru– every mission, every side quest on pure PARAGON did everything correctly.
of course you can view something subjectively or objectively (but never 100% objective because your views will color it alittle)
regardless there are a few things from me 1 and me 2 that could be “stretched” into a full consipracy theory indoctrination theory.
But likewise there are alot of points that DISPROVE the indoctrination theory.
The biggest few pieces of evidence I saw to disprove FRESH just recently:
1) Sheppard talks to VI on ILLOS: States Doesnt detect any indoctrinated organisms. Since Shep is there…hes not indoctrinated yet hes been around ALOT of repear tech up to that point. Since indoctrinations happens slowly over time and doesnt just POP and bam you are a minion…. that almost eliminates the WHOLE game of ME 1 since that happens at the end of the game generally.
2) People clammer about the illusive mans ***EEEYESSS*** being repear. NO. He has always had the “eyes” go replay the game. From the moment you encounter illusive man you can see his robotic eyes…i looked for it…its always the 2-3 point blueish eye things. They just get more clear over the games as graphics get better. So that isnt the “reaper” proof unless hes ALREADY indoctrinated by the time you meet him for the first time.
LATER he does get reaper implants in himself and his men…. which probably is as close to instant indoctrination as you can get. but his EYES are not the issue its the other mechanical parts you see in him and his cronies.
3) The Prothean VI on Thessia scans for signs of Indoctrination and states that none of Shepards crew are affected, and when Kai Leng is about to enter the room & the VI is about to shut down it says something to the affect of “Detecting Indoctrinated [individual]”
Again…pretty much showing Shep isnt indoctrinated (unless Bioware is high on drugs and lying)
So…. theres more im sure but thats all im posting
I do agree with you that, while interesting, I don’t particularly believe the “Indoctrination Theory”.
However, with the Illusive Man, there is a comic (Mass Effect: Evolution) that gives some of his back story, and shows that he was briefly exposed to a Reaper Artifact that was transforming some Turians into proto-husks; so his indoctrination may have started there.
Small point, decimated doesn’t mean “everybody was killed”, decimated means “lots but NOT ALL of them were killed”.
If I recall it’s literal translation is one in ten, I think though that as with so many words different meaning’s are applied in different contexts and by different people.
I do like the Indoc Theory, and hope it is true. As for whether it’s “right” for the company to sell an ending as DLC, I would not mind it if it were announced up front. What we got instead I dislike.
If this theory had been confirmed and the ending of the game was him waking up, with a note that this would be continued in DLC, I would have been ok with it. It’s the sense of abrupt nothingness I take issue with.
They maybe will make a mass effect 4 because, after the credits do a boy say: can you tell me more about sheppard?
it’s geting late but okay heres another story about commander sheppard.
Ok ive finished 2 playthoughs on ME2 and am finally back into ME3.
I disagree with the theorists on the little boy.I believe they are reaching.
On earth you see him run into a building and then its blown up but he is in the duct work.(nevermind a 6-7 yo being that clever) thats how he survived.You pry open a door and anderson goes through.Hes in another room.then later he gets aboard a shuttle.I don’t think that he’s being ignored.one of the troops is fireing his rifle at the reaper.What i think is.At this moment the attention you are meant to be focused on is that boy and not some helper or savior.But that kid.Seeing him being blown up really puts a chink in Sheps will.And finally a hole that the reapers can exploit.After that yea thats how the reapers got its first footings into sheps mind.All through out this game(if playing a paragon story) the sense of loss and death weigh heavily on Shep.I think that boy was the catalist,so to speak,for that.
Im activly pursueing this if you cant tell.if i have any new thoughts ill post them.
You don’t know much about the rapid expansion of gasses in enclosed spaces do you? If you’re 6 feet into a duct and a room blows up, the explosion works is way out the windows, downs the duct, and through doors. It doesn’t matter if he’s 60 feet down that duct, he still gets vaporised.
What pisses me off is a company thinking its ok to have a crap ending like this that people can only theorise about and then try to sell you the real ending later.If that becomes trend i truely will have seen the glory days of gameing and they will be gone.
I can’t imagine the sales pitch that got this to land.i mean a series like this has its fans and they were the one that went out and bought it blindly.i did.But theres lots of people that don’t buy games on the day of release.They wait and read the reviews first.This game has seen more press than anything this year and all negitive.EA has got to see the falloff in sales.or maybe im wrong and its gone platnum already.
Either way it has severily marred the opinions of players about bioware and EA.I cannot fathum why a company would just slap its customer base.And then later why it wouldnt expect even its fan base to pirate their next big whatever first as to not get sucked into something like this again.Don’t get me wrong i dont support pirateing.If you like a game i believe that you should support the company that produced it and buy it.But i also don’t support getting roped into a 70$ suckfest either.
What kills me even more is that from part 1 through 2 and up until the Harbinger beam this is one of the best series in existance.KILLed by marketing.
@Tom,
Agreed, the indoctrination theory has some flaws but it is no where near as ‘WTF’ as the current ending would have if it remains real. That ending is so nonsensical that it would even make Halo 3′s ending seem superb.
What made you ‘join my hopes’? Was it the counter-counter-argument about the red ending having to be available to all players if it is the only door back to the real world?
Because I do think that makes the most sense from Bioware’s point of view. They have to have this available to all players. But before anyone makes this point, I do agree that it is stupid to only make the ‘Reaper’s will endings’ (blue and green) available to those with a high EMS score. It means that the endings the players perceive as rewards are actually the traps, and people who don’t try hard and fight with a low EMS score will always pick the right choice as they have no choice.
Of course on the up side, those with a really high EMS score and the red ending were the only ones who got to see the sneakpeak about Shepard still being in the rubble on earth. And if the DLC adds a true ending than hopefully it incorporates the EMS score in a more meaningful way and those with a high score will be rewarded for the affords.
I’m joining your hopes because I too want to see a different ending or ending(s) and agree that the current finales are terrible ‘wtf’ moments.
Thinking about the fact that Bioware gave the red ending to everyone DOES reinforce the notion that they intended for Shepard to be alive due to upcoming content. I never considered that before. I only thought about it from within the context of the indoctrination theory, rather than what Bioware was planning for the future.
I still think a poor commander automatically getting the right choice doesn’t seem right from a gaming point of view (something that you also noted) but your argument that it is essential for upcoming DLC makes sense and gives me hope. That’s what I’m trying to say
That means all is not lost and that they are not just madly scrambling about trying to think of a solution. It means they have it all planned….hopefully.
I want to see endings that have different shades based on the EMS, your decisions over the game and which actually tell you what happens to the characters we have come to love. It’s just a shame they didn’t do that to begin with. Not to mention greedy.
Still, fingers crossed.
To Tom
I know you werent.But reaper tech does speed the process by a huge amount.In part 1 saren allowed Soverign to implant him because Saren had doubts about its plan and he was fully indoced upon doing it.it also explains to you that being fully indoc’ed wasnt very good for a reaper agant because their mind is fully gone at that point.You are more or less transformed into a husk,or maurauder.A mindless soldier.
now go back to the illusive man he has tech.At the end of ME3 in the dream lots of the flesh on his face is gone showing that its an extensive amount of tech.Weather or not he had that much in ME2 is unknown and never will be.But he did have the eyes.IMO he was being indoced dureing that time.He still tho thought that all he was doing to help humanity was right but he kept makeing bad decisions,he kept trying to send Shep into collecter hands unprepared,and then didnt want the reaper killed.All the while thinking hes helping humanity but was really being subtly swayed into the reapers thinking.So much so to wage allout war with everybody in 3 while theres a reaper invasion going on instead of fighting the reapers themselves.
To Ronnet.
I agree with you on 1.And in ME3 it never really explains it like it did on the IFF mission in ME2.In that mission several terminals shows a crew being indoc’ed slowly and in stages.No tech is needed just being in the mere presence of a reaper.
On 2 i agree with Tom on this one.What the hell is so special about Shep that they wouldn’t just blow his ass away when he gets that near to destroying them?
3 that would pretty much be a new game entirely.It would satisfy me much more to get to the real god child and say screw you.Im not going to destroy the entire galaxy to win.I’ve built my army from every race in it and we will fight you to the bloody end.You may kill us but we will not be your slaves.
Because seriously if i wake up knowing that i killed EDI,the geth,stranded the quarions so far away from their homeworld,destroying earth,and then i had to go make the decision for real this time.WTF hell no im not doing it.
Hi Direlectshane
I replied to Ronnet below. I didn’t mean to suggest that tech is a requirement for indoctrination. I was just trying to cover all bases.
And yeah, I know how you feel about the geth/EDI and stranded Quarians if the Bioware endings are the real thing.
How do you mean ‘if I wake up knowing that I killed… (etc)” ?
If the indoctrination theory is true than all of that has been a dream. You’ll wake up on earth with the Reaper invasion still going on.
If the indoctrination theory is true than the green and blue ending just mean Shepard gets indoctrinated and is unable to further resist and continue fighting. You only think you’ve won while in fact you lost and just don’t know it.
The only way to escape the dream is by lissing to the part of you that isn’t indoctrinated (the side represented by Anderson, this is why you see him perform the red ending during the conversation with the god child).
So since the red ending is the only ending that frees you from indoctrination and lets you continue playing if you’ve bought the DLC, the red ending has to be available to everyone. Which is why it is the ending available even to those that have a low EMS score.
I prefer the indoctrination theory to the endings we got. It still has inexcusable plot holes though.
1. How did Shepard get indoctrinated? Throughout the series people have to be in steady contact with a reaper. Saren/Benezia lived in one as did the research team in ME2. The Arrival DLC scientists lived next to reaper tech which presumably acted as a conduit for Harbinger. Illusive man/Leng was pretty much the same thing with all that reaper tech at the base or implanted. The Hanar traitor was in possession of reaper tech.
Shepard was never in steady contact. He was also in relative isolation for six months on earth. No reaper contact/proximity. Did he sleep next to a sabotaged teddy bear with reaper enhancements? Was Shepard reconstructed with reaper tech? Actual tech, not recreated prototypes?
If so wouldn’t Miranda have said something? She felt guilty enough about having merely thought of a control chip. No way she would have installed reaper bits…let alone do so and not tell Shepard. She oversaw the whole project. She knew everything about it. Why wasn’t she indoctrinated whilst working on him if that’s when Shepard’s conversion began?
2. Why would the reapers even give Shepard a choice at the end? Why even leave him alive? Because he’s ‘special’? No way. They’ve got billions of humans to harvest. They’re not going to risk their existence just because they want the prize of converting Shep. They’ve been around for millions of years but for him they make an exception? I don’t buy it.
3. If Shepard never reached the Citadel and was actually laying in rubble on earth dreaming/fighting indoctrination then what actually happened to everyone? What could he possibly achieve in a coma?
When I played the ending I thought it was a weird dream sequence. However, indoctrination never even occurred to me because of the above.
Rant over. Phew, that was actually quite cathartic
Thanks to Angry for the videos and the also for the passion people obviously have for this game judging by all the responses.
1. Indoctrination is more than ‘installing reaper bits’. A Reaper signal is already enough to slowly brainwash you. So without tech in your body you can also be a Reaper slave in mind alone. The ingame codex does explain a bit of it.
More is explained in the third novel (which I’m now re-reading). The protagonist Paul Grayson is also implemented with deactivated Reaper tech but once he comes into contact with a Reaper signal the ‘bits’ reactivate. So if Shepard was rebuild with Reaper tech than all the other moments that he came into contact with a Reaper signal could have activated the nano-bots in him. But there are also other moments in which he could have been infected by nano-bots. They are unseenable and can replicate in the body using material that comes to us through food. They can do so unknown slowly ,or very known with speed (as Grayson found out the hard way).
2. They’re not giving him a choice, the choice is false as it is part of the dream. You see Harbinger fly away but this is already part of the dream. We have no clue what the real circumstances are of the war. So the Reaper beam knocks Shepard out. As said in the third novel the indoctrination is more powerful while asleep (also said in ME2). So it is at this moment that they try to compleet the indoctrination, in which they succeed if you pick blue or green. Only by picking red you see Shepard awake after the credits. This doesn’t mean they let Shepard win, if he picks red and beats their indoctrination, they might still try to destroy his body in the real world.
3. He can’t achieve anything, except regain control over his mind. I think that if the theory is true than the DLC will start with Shepard awakening in a hospital, saved by that English luitenant. They’ve lost the war and Hackett decided to retreat with the Crucible (it never attached to the citadel). Shepard will first have to regain compleet control over his body and mind (which I expect will be harder for those that picked green or blue). After that they’ll have to find another means to get the crucible to the citadel, as well as rebuild their army.
I’m not expecting Bioware to deliver an amazing ending that incorporated all or choices. I don’t think DLC can fix that much, but if this theory is true than I will applaud them for it. It is much more memorable than just beating them right away and having a happy ending. Of course I’ll still be angry that they tried to sell it seperatly but it has still been an interesting turn of events. They’ll announce this on friday.
To Ronnet. Thanks for your input.
1. Yeah, I know indoctrination isn’t about ‘installing bits’. I’m sorry if I didn’t explain myself very well.
I was simply trying to pre-empt that particular idea if someone claimed that direct installation was the indoctrination method since, as I said, I feel that Shepard was never in close enough proximity for a long enough amount of time for a reaper to use the signal type of ID’ing. I feel the game never really showed to a credible degree that Shepard was in danger of indoctrination imho. It was never really a feature.
I cannot comment on anything from the novels (nano-bots etc) since I haven’t read them. I shouldn’t have too either since the games and their narrative should be all inclusive.
2&3. I agree with you on these points but that’s exactly the problem. It means they haven’t told us what actually happens to anyone or what the final outcome of the battle was. The idea that they are fighting for his mind and cannot control his subconscious and stop it from neatly coming up with blue, green and red doors is just too contrived.
You pick red, you beat indoctrination. You do not destroy the reapers. You’re no better off than when you landed on Earth and started the mission. Nothing is finalised, nothing is decided; it’s still all in the balance. We didn’t get an ending in complete contradiction to Hudson’s and Gamble’s previous statements during development.
Also, apparently, as AngryJoe said, if you are a poor commander and have a low EMS then your only choice is the red door. So the worse you are at leading the galaxy the better you are at fighting indoctrination? Huh?
Please don’t say that it’s because the less time you spend travelling the galaxy, the less time the reapers have to work on you. That’s really stretching it.
It also still leaves the question, why bother to indoctrinate at all? Harbinger could just step on Shepard like an ant
Problem solved. Why would Harbinger even care?
Like I said, I prefer the indoctrination idea to the endings we have, but I don’t believe this is what Bioware intended and even if it was (which I guess we can never know for sure now) they’ve handled it appallingly.
They very fact that people can back and forth like this and pick holes in all the ideas put forward shows what a mess the end game was. I simply hope they manage to repair some of it somehow.
I know that the problem is that the true ending is missing. If the indoctrination theory is true than Bioware still deserves the wrath of the gaming community for this poor idea of seperating the true ending via DLC. So yes, Bioware than lied about providing an ending that would bring closure. But they did so anyway as the current (IMO fake) ending also doesnt provide this.
However I find the concept of gamers believing they’ve won because they agreed with the God child’s line of thinking very original. It would mean they, just like Shepard, were indoctrinated to the point where they believed the Reapers opinion was their own.
I agree that it is strange that the red ending is always available. I can come up with one good reason for this. If the red ending is the only way to return to the real world than they can’t have this be locked away to only those with a high EMS score. It has to be available to everyone so that even those with a low score are able to pick the ending and transport to the real world. Or otherwise many people would have to replay the entire game just to get to the DLC ending.
I hope that the true ending takes the EMS score and does something better with it. However I can understand how Bioware also had to use it in the fake ending. If they didn’t use it in the ending than people would be even more angry. They would say it has been compleetly pointless, and they would be right about that. Now Bioware could link it to the collor fake endings and hope people would accept it. We now know they didn’t and that Bioware’s plan backfired. But I can see how they before release thought it was a brilliant idea.
I join you in your hopes. I agree that a high EMS should be rewarded somewhere down the line in order to create multiple endings.
I would also like to point out again that I dislike the current endings far more than the indoctrination theory which I actually like despite the flaws I think it has.
I wonder when in April they will make the announcement?
To Ronnet
Giveing the right or wrong of the choice doesnt matter.What matters is that it wasnt a choice.No matter what you did it doomed the galaxy.Nobody seems to want to address the quarians who are over 100k light years from the home world we liberated.Kali ser’i. and they never will.
Going back to the indoc theory and if you go back to 2 and play it from there looking forward.It is either A the greatest work of gameing writeing to date or the worst.Even the president of the united states of amarica has writers that write his speeches.Because it has been determined that the general audiance reads and comprehends at a 10th grade lvl.So what if you have a story thats so complex only 3% of its population understand it.
And i see it.If you go back into ME2 and play it from there you will see the indoc play out.Its extremely subtle..And taken at face value you will never see it.I did’nt.and would never have if not for this theory and the curiosity to check it out.
Thats a failure on the writers part.So what if they have an IQ of 200.its general audiance does not.And thats not an insult what it is is the fact that a person reading listening or watching a story is just watching they do not analyze ever word in the story.And really thats what you have to do to understand this story.
Lets also stop for a sec and say,if this is true.Was indoc’ing Shep the best ending you could do.No matter how hard you fought against it we were still indocd’ed.
Im looking forward to the ending dlc for only closure.After that it will determine if i refuse to have anything to do with anything Mac Walters writes.That leak is out and cannot be denied.
To Direlectshane
If the ending than I agree that it was a stupid ending and that there should have been options options or at the very least have the ending be a direct consequence of previous choices.
However I like to believe the indoctrination theory is true, in which case the choice was good enough. It means it has all been a dream sequence in which Shepared’s resolve was tested by the Reapers. By picking the red choice you free yourself from the worst of the indoctrination (which is why people who pick the red choice are the only ones who see Shepard breathing at the end).
It would have been amazing if the true ending was already in the game. It would mean that people who picked green or blue thought they had won but all they were seeing was an illusion given to them by the Reapers. Yet people who picked red would awake and continue to fight and win for real. people who picked blue or green would go online to complain only to find out that they were tricked. They can than easily replay the ending and pick the right choice.
However the experience of having being truelly indoctrinated as a player will remain. It would mean that for a moment you agreed with the Reaper, you understood their line of thinking and deliberatly chose to agree with them. Of course I picked red right away, so I’m sort of proud that I was able to resist the indoctrination. Which is why I hope this theory turns out to be true
I don’t think it was too hard to figure out, the signs were there and most people would have found the dream sequences as well as the ending odd. Besides if the theory is true than we were supposed to be fooled. Just like people were fooled by the sixth sense. It is cool to have a twist like this in a game. Of course that only counts if the true ending isn’t sold seperatly. That is just lame. But the way they’ve implemented the indoctrination of Shepard is simply brilliant (if the theory is true of course, but the fact that this debatable already shows that there is more to the ending).
the difference between the sixth sense and mass effect is that at the end of sixth sense they revealed the twist on the story, same as in the others. In mass effect the lopped off part of the ending to sell to us at a different timeframe since capcom is now doing it I don’t put it past EA to have thought about this as well, the list of gaming companies I no longer support seems to be growing and the list of ones I do support seems to be shrinking. At this rate by the end of the year I will stop playing new video games entirely.
Yes Soulprovider, that is a key difference. And don’t get me wrong, I’m still pissed at Bioware/EA for doing so.
However I can look at these two things seperatly. The concept of a fake dream ending brought on by indoctrination is fantastic. If the game had included the real ending as well (available to all who were able to break free from indoctrination) than IMO ME3 would have been one of the best games ever made.
Bioware would have returned to the height and acclaim of their KOTOR days. Unfortunatly they chose otherwise, but that doesn’t take away that, if true, I find this indoctrination storyline awesome on its own.
I want to comment on the eyes. If this were true, BioWare would have shown us Udina’s eyes. But they did not.
to support the indoc theory there is bit of trivia thats needed.It is known that bioware was developeing ME3 at the same time it was developeing ME2.With that in mind i went back to ME2 to take a look at the earliest signs of the indoc theory.
When you get the mission to go to the collector ship that was disabled by the turions.At the very start of the mission it makes it a very clear point to zoom in and show you the illusive mans eyes.At that time you didnt think anything of it.Tech is common.And you just assume that he has tech or biotics.But know ask yourself what kind of tech.At the end of that mission you know that he sent you into a trap.He diliberatly sent you to the collectors.This looks to be the start of his Indoc to get Shep indoctrinated.It also yet again makes it a point to show you his eyes.
Later at the end of the game.before you go through the ME4 relay he shrugs off mirandas concerns that you go in ready.Again hes trying to send you to the reapers themselves without being ready for it.
And then at the very end of the game.You discover that the collectors are building a human reaper.The illusive man calls your cell and says hey dont destroy it we can use it.
Taken into light this theory.ME2 seems to clearly show the beginings of the illusive mans indoctrination.And all the steps he took to bring down shep before ME3.They were subtle.And i think its that subtlety that made it so damned hard to understand.
Clearly its a vegas bet right now at who is right and wrong but i support the Indoc theory.You have to examine every last aspect of the game to understand it but the evidence is undinable.
I’ve spent the last month avoiding your site while I played through the whole triolgy to avoid spoilers. I must admit, the game was awesome, I like the story progression and the development of the old characters in the new game. When I got to the ending I was kind of surprised that so many people online had been complaining about it, until I watched your ten reasons video and actually stopped and thought about the ending and you’re right, there are a number of plot holes such as the normandy crew (especially as all the normandy crew INCLUDING EDI are on Earth’s surface prior to the final battle, yet appear in the ‘survival’ scene. I REALLY hope this theory is true and it isn’t just awful writing and tat there will be some (hopefully free) DLC which follows a similar thread to the indoctrination theory. I must admit, from the nightmare sequences in game I did get the feeling that this may be linked to indoctrination purely due to the fact this was such a different feature to the first few episodes, and many people complain of nightmares in the logs of the indoctrinated you find throughout the game.
However the fact that we are likely to need to pay for the DLC for the ‘true’ ending is a massive cock move by EA (I refuse to believe its bioware’s decision) and should not be allowed, especially after having day 1 DLC aswell. Although, to be fair the game is worth about twice as much as several $70 games (kane and lynch, homeland etc.) so maybe using them as a marker the price is justified.
Either way I’m now going to have to play through the end again as I stupidly chose green with my paragon (too trusting of mystical children) and with different Characters as I refuse to let Garrus have a cheap death at the hands of harbinger. This DLC can not come soon enough! Damn you Bioware!
Like they say in X-Files: I want to believe.
I want this theory to be true, it would show that the new writters to have some writting talent. However ME3′s ending isn’t horrible beyond believability, it could still very well be the true ending. Halo 3 and Alan Wake also had such horrible endings. Endings where it is clear that you’re only getting this shitty ending because the writters themselves have no clue what is going on anymore. So they pretend to be smart and say ‘the ending is beyond your comprehension’. Which btw, is exactly what the Reapers have been telling us since ME1…
But I want it to be true, especially because I passed the test, I picked the red option. With my full paragon Shepard that was able to pick green, I decided that Red would be best for the universe. So I want the indoctrination theory to be true. For me compelling evidence that it has to be true is the fact that Bioware hasn’t seeminly tried to use it. Yet Shepard was rebuild with reaper-tech, I was expecting his indoctrination problems to come up at some point.
So I believe the theory, I just wonder if I do so because it makes the most sense or because I want it to be true…
At any rate, you are very right Mr. Joe, if true than I still have Bioware for it. Maybe a little less than I hate them now but still. A fake ending would mean they cheated us out of a real ending. If this DLC is free than it is semi-OK, I can deal with it. If it is any good than we’ll see. I just don’t see how it can be. Would Shepard get up on Earth, and this time enter the real Citadel, offering us real choices reflective of our choices? I don’t see them suddenly showing an ending that involves the Rachni, Aria’s troops, all or squad-mates, etc. I don’t even think they have the tallent to do it right. Perhaps if they charge us 30 dollars for thsi ending alone…
…And ff they charge us for it than my fury will hopefully inspire them to come up with an interesting villain for their next game. Which they’ll have to build in the new office they’ll need!
I would like to start by saying that if this theory is true then awesome sauce. We will eventually see an ending that makes sense and doesn’t poop all over us. Where I take issue is that I am after 2-3 run throughs and large a amount of time in the multiplayer that now I am expected to pay for something that should be in the game a proper ending. If this is true why didn’t the game keep rolling ? Why would bioware feel the need to stir up all of this hate for a couple of months then say “oh that what just a hallucination give us 9.99 and here is your real ending ,sucker”.
Thank you very much for this Angry Joe! You saved me from being let down severely in one of my favorite game series endings. Now I have lots to look forward from Bioware in the near future for the real ending.
I stopped myself from watching this vid and the one about the ME3 ending until I completed the shipped ending myself. Guess some DLC or some large expansion is on it’s way eventually.
And also tommorow is aprils fools day, and you know another company who has a very popular game did something they would regret on april 1st. Something that ended up recoiling in their face. (2007 Pandaren WoW)
Anyelse notice that when you enter the catalysts main room and see the 3 choices, control reapers is blue and destroy reapers is red. Now usually blue is paragon, while red is renegade. And controlling the reapers seems like the evil thing to us right. Why would destroying the reapers be red, when it seems like the good thing to do? Maybe its because harbinger is trying to indoctirnate shephard and convert him to his way of thinking. (think saren in ME1). Basiclly harbinger is telling shepard that maybe controlling is actually the right thing(which is obviously wrong) and destroying them bad(which its not). He’s trying to persuade shepard to his stance. Saren wasnt so fanatical before the reapers came.
Still waiting on bioware to confirm if this is the case… they aren’t saying a word and leaked reports and hints suggest bad things to come oh lets not forget the support of their multiplayer they keep pushing it I so hope i’m wrong but I think the franchise is about to be ruined.
So long to true writing
See this to see what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_NAoNd4YyY
EA Indoctrination Theory:
Buy the next DLC… Buy the next DLC… Buy the next DLC… Buy the next DLC… Buy the next DLC… Buy the next DLC… Buy the next DLC… Buy the next DLC… Buy the next DLC… Buy the next DLC… Buy the next DLC… Buy the next DLC… Buy the next DLC… Buy the next DLC… Buy the next DLC… Buy the next DLC…
EA, indoctrination you since 1982! =^D
I call the indoctrination theory a desperate grab to make sense of the ending. The fact that the ending was just soooo bad that anything to try and make sense of it will be better. That’s also where I get lost with how you or anyone else who loved the ME Series would also accept the Indoctrination theory and hope that its true because then everything at the ending is rendered pointless. If all of that was in Shepard’s mind , then that means we were all played into thinking that what we did matters even though Shepard never actually did ANYTHING and therefore the reapers probably destroyed earth…judging from Hackett over the radio saying no body made it into the transport. Thus even rendering all the other endings pointless because with everyone of them you are trying to defeat indoctrination and only Have one solution…Just to keep shepard alive…..
What Im trying to say , If the Indoctrination theory is true , that means even more choices were robbed from us. We never were hinted at being indoctrinated and we were never really given the choice to fight it off to begin with via player choice. Considering how in-depth the game was based on consequences and player choice, Why would you then accept a theory where we are then blind sided with ” They were fucking with your mind all along” and we as the player couldnt do a DAMN thing about it until the very end…only to either fall for the reapers tricks…which by the theory means 2 bad choices and one good one…only for the end result to save Shepard’s mind and stay alive even though Earth is probably destroyed because…..it was just a dream.
How then is that theory any better? Is it because its “deep”? because its nothing anyone saw coming? Are you happy to find out that you were becoming indoctrinated? What makes this Idea better than the other endings? It still leaves everything in the open with literally LESS closure!
The point of indoctrination is not knowing it’s happening to you. If the player could obviously see it happening, but not Sheppard, then there would be tons of complaints about the inability to do anything about it.
Putting all the points together about spotting indoctrination in the game from Angry Joe , along with the tweets from Bioware, and the ending where it shows you taking a breath after making the choice to kill synthetics, only points to one thing. It was indoctrination, and Bioware is coming out with a lot more for the game in the future.
Remember, Sheppard stopped staggering and his injuries disappeared after taking a few shots in the cutscene, that and he didn’t show any signs of being synthetic, unlike the other two choices.
If you are correct, then BW is out to lunch, if I am correct, then BW is playing it really well. If you like the three games so much, then you should give them the benefit of the doubt. Just because the DA2 ending flopped, it doesn’t mean ME3 will automatically. BW has one of the best track records for well done RPing games.
Remember the synthetic option also has Sheppard top staggering as well as he runs and jumps into the beam. Most of the indoctrination theory can be refuted with simple common sense. Hackett saying no one made it into the beam…Well…that’s because no one made it in yet. Sheppard suddenly no longer limping with injuries is just him summoning his last bit of energy to shoot straight and finish what he set out to do. You see it in movies all the time how the hero uses his last bits of energy to save or stop the enemy.
I really don’t see how this is BW playing it well, because then that means they were planning to either sell us the true ending later? As well as undermine the rest of the endings for only one possible ending to possibly continue and finish the game properly? Despite what this theory is trying to explain , the main outcry originally was that none of our choices mattered in the end the Indoctrination theory means the same thing. Though somehow its better because it was crafty and artsy.
Either way , I personally , am done with Bioware as well as a list of other game companies that treat their fans in such a matter. If this Indoctrination theory somehow rings true…then we all were played.
Regardless, Bioware has tweeted that there is much more in store for Sheppard, and if that was the ending of all endings that shipped with the game then the game wouldn’t be able to be played past that mark, yet it appears through their comments that it will. And as far as I see it, all the indoctrinating points make perfect sense.
There’s too much cynicism these days.
I am not endorsing that they leave it like they have with or without future DLC. The ending isn’t cool even if it’s just a vision, BW should have had Sheppard wake up and then continued on to the real ending after that, or just leave it open and let everyone clearly know.
I think the Crucible should have destroyed the Reapers around earth, and from there give the player a great big victory. After that, future DLC could have concentrated on ridding the galaxy of the Reapers, finding the real intelligence behind them and actually having an awesome dialogue with them to finally end the trilogy.
I agree, the current ending is just not cool in anyway shape or form. Nor is this a cool marketing approach, especially when it angries up the customers.
Though left with things the way they are, and after watching AJ’s vid here, I understand that there will be more coming down for the game.
If this is true not only is it the ending that mass effect deserved it would also be one of the top 3 game franchise endings of all time. Personally I don’t care if this what Bioware intended or if it is them exploiting a conclusion fans have drawn themselves, but I am more invested in Mass Effect than any game series save Metal Gear, so I just want to see ME given the ending it deserves and this would be the type of larger than life story that ME deserves, make it so.
from my understanding, BioWare didn’t start making up a new ending for the game until a good portion of their fanbase loudly complained about the lackluster ending that we have now.
I hope it happens, and I’m hoping it’ll be free.
but I don’t believe the whole Indoctrination theory. I believe that they had written themselves a bad ending, and are now paying the price for it.
will they try to retcon the hell out of it, or overwrite it? now that’s the big question.
Alright. I admit, I made my comment before watching the video.
now that I’ve watched it, I must now say…
I still call BS.
for the opening sequence, regarding the child, I can say this: they were in a hurry.
it was do-or-die time. Anderson may have overlooked the child, and the soldiers were probably too busy trying to protect the civilians, child from any ground hostiles.
I honestly thought this child was… well… the god child. projecting himself on to the planet surface. flat out telling him that “someone’s going to die. and you’ll be helpless to save them”
Now in regards to the ending, I do agree with the nay-sayers. why the hell would the reapers give you the option of blowing them up if they’re trying to control you. it makes no sense that the Reapers would offer that decision. if it was a choice that Shepard made independently, then okay. I’d have less of a complaint. but to flat-out say “you can blow us up if you want” would mean that they’re not as bright as one would think.
So while there’s enough evidence to support the indoctrination theory, there’s just as much supporting otherwise.
I like artistic endings as much as the next guy, and if this was indoctrination, I’d love it. but I can’t bring myself to believe that theory.
and hopefully, HOPEFULLY, BioWare’s not sitting there looking at this as a way out.
I think the interpretation is that the Reaper’s weren’t offering Shepard anything. If Shepard is unconscious back on Earth then picking Destroy won’t physically hurt the Reapers or anything else. The only thing at stake is Shepard’s mind. Picking Control or Synthesis, TIM or Saren’s solutions, results in Shepard’s will being broken, only Destroy allows him to wake up.
The Catalyst (or Harbinger) clearly discourages Destroy with lines like “Synthetics will come back anyway”, “the Geth will die”, “you will probably die too as you have synthetic implants” etc, but he can’t completely block off the option as he hasn’t completely subverted Shepard’s mind yet. If he had there would be no need for this scenario to trick Shepard into surrendering his will to Harbingers preferred options
Since they have been bought by EA, Bioware can be accused of a great many things, but not shitty writing. It´s indoctrination for sure. Hope they won´t charge too much for the next DLC or consumers might feel ripped off.
if they charge anything to finish the game if indoctrination is the case then they completely ripped off the customers regardless.
I’m still working on ME1 and have ME2 waiting to get played so I’m not yet up to date with the entire storyline. From what I’ve seen from Joe’s video’s covering this, I really have the impression that Bioware indeed rushed the ending for release purposes, which is unacceptable, definetely for a sequel that should give definitive answers. I’m REALLY in doubt about buying ME3 after all this, which i find very sad… Just for the money….
Well. This Answers Almost all my questions about the ME3 Endings that i had. Now i am positive that Bioware will release the True Ending DLC. They knew it all along that everyone will have this kind of response. I think they did not expect such a high response at many levels (even legal ones). We were’nt reading the signals well. The video pretty much sums all the answers. Thank you for your hard working time in finding the truth for all the fans. Now i can wait patiently for the DLC.
And the reason the prothean computer may not have sensed the indoctrination is b/c it wasnt complete yet when undergoing indoctrination its not instant and distinct differences between kai leng and shepard is that if anything shepard was beating the indoctrination at that point not even showing faint signs while as kai leng was…. well you know indoctrinated
Hey look guys even if they charge for the Dlc its not lke a rip off making that DLC isnt free thats like additional content to the game extra effort more work more programming and think about it the whole game everyone around except you seemed suceptible to indoctrination saren, udina, the illusive man all of these people were powerful figures who at one point did the right thing and were probably exposed to reaper tech 1/100th the time shepard was the fact that it took till this point for the reapers to get even close to indoctrinating shepard and that theres an option to fight it even at that point is mind boggling giving it some thought and could you have thought of this? this would be something a company had never done before maybe bio ware has employers on it who are just like you and me they wanted to hit you with something you wouldnt see coming yet still make sense and cmon guys you know your psyched that Me3 isnt over yet you did kinda wait nearly 3 years for it. I say if this theory is true then gj Bioware and keep up the good work cause in all honesty i have to respect this level of genius
If Shepard was indoctrinated. Then why didn’t the Prothean computer see it? When Kai Leng entered the room, it would say indoctrin person is there. Not anytime else.
The whole Krogan Story was awesome. I even like the turian mission to disarm the bomb, trying to make it through explosions all around you.
The Geth story line was great as well and had a very similiar feel at the end.
After all the trouble and development in ME2 for strong team that is loyal. The cameos was lame in my opinion. If they really put the extra time in and created more “crossroads”. Meaning that if all of your team survived in ME2 you can have them in ME3 too.
There is people defending, “Not to change the ending,” because it hurts the author and how they see it. Really???? The missions and story leading up to that point is very similiar. Until the ending.
If I was in charge of the project.
1. Lick my wounds and at least to myself I would admit the ending sucks.
2. I would not prologue the fans for any reason
3. I would not give false promises.
4. I would ask myself, “What would Blizzard do?” (game wouldn’t be released yet)
5. Repair the ending with my head held high
6. Create some worth while DLC’s to end great story
Sorry man that’s a lame excuse for a lame ending seriously.
Ok let’s do this:
The kid getting into blocked dors, that happened alot around the game, just a “forgot to program” part. And he went straight to the air ducts because there were reapers on the other side of the first door. They make you know… noises.
No it’s not a dream of hope… it’s a bad plot from a team that was rushed to finish a product “by any means necessary” seriously.
The indocrination process takes more than a few days, that’s what they’ve showed us through the series, – having to get – getting knocked down by that thing (godamn bad plot starts here, “assuming control” over us, ridiculous on ME series seriously) has it’s point I’ll admit that.
What sheppard is passing through is a condition known by any war medic, known as war stress. Specifically after passing through a situation like not saving someone that was right in front of you.
No it’s not the same slow motion, slomo is not the same thing as been hurt badly and having to walk slowly.
Reapers, just like the geth, listen to radio and the extranet, so when the commander said “Hammer is down” there was no need to stay there.
Well as holmes used to say, don’t make the facts match the theory. IT IS a bad plot seriously. The Illusive man, was probably in the citadel allowed by the reapers and Anderson… ok he wasn’t there. But it’s likely that there was only the Illusive man and Sheppard there. Also don’t bloody forget dude the Illusive man managed to control his indocrinated troops.
Well in ALL the games you see sheppard just pressing his ear to talk (WTF, yeah) so there you go, the radio is there.
The reason why the citatel is there is here: http://www.oxm.co.uk/39736/revealed-the-mass-effect-3-ending-bioware-canned-before-release/ that’s the “original ending” that they did not use, because maybe just because it leaked OR because it would take too much time to work.
The idea that it’s just a dream on Sheppard’s mind and he’s still alive is great. That would lead to ME4. After unitying a galaxy like that I would expect a total win against the reapers – after you get 100% on multiplayer the status changes to: steady and winning on key locations – could be a hint that we were helding them out.
The reason why the protheans died was because as ME1 says, they were caught by surprise, the relays were down, their leaders killed and the chain of command broken. And the reapers took them one by one, nor in united or organized.
—
That said, I WANT to believe that Sheppard – mine at least – is knocked down. And will show up on ME4 or something. Though I STILL believe Bioware was indocrinated by EA, and wants as much money as possible.
You know, I picked up on some of those points during gameplay, but some of them just eluded me. I never saw the child running into the building, for example. I also always wondered why Shep would suddenly feel guilty to the point of nightmares about one single child, when he/she not half a year prior wiped out a entire system with around 300,000 people in it without more than a second of deliberation.
At this point I actually dearly hope the whole thing just boils down to retarded writing, because the thought of Bioware knowingly delivering a incomplete product makes me quite angry. Even IF the “dlc endings” were free ( and that is a VERY big if! ) it would be quite horrible to first give your eager and loyal fans a unfinished product, then leave them hanging with a crappy ending and vague teasers for, say, a month and then maybe deliver proper closure that SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE GAME FROM THE VERY BEGINNING! GOD DAMMIT! *flips desk*
I used to joke about FFXIII-2′s dlc ending, because that seemed like such a horrible idea, but this would not be all that different, aside from the fact that FFXIII-2 was overall terrible while ME3 was for the most part absolutly fantastic, until the beam, that is.
Oh, I also have no way to get that dlc anyway, because I can only access the internet from university. Good job, Bioware. Really great.
Damage of this proportion ought to be quite difficult to mend, even if you deliver the best dlc ever made next. People usually don’t like to be taken for fools or cashcows. I know I certainly don’t.
I have to admit I was disappointed with the endings at first, but IF (and it’s a big if) Bioware planned the indoctrination theory, and plan to release a Free of Charge “true ending” where Shepard resists indoctrination, wakes up and has a proper boss battle in the “real” world, then I think this is the most awesome mind-f**k since Inception! Imagine the guts it would take Bioware to hold their nerve while the whole fan-base is calling for blood and their shareholders are screaming blue murder at their falling share price due to bad reviews!
The point of the exercise would be to make us as players feel the same confusion, the same helplessness, the same sense of being forced into an inevitable course of action as an indoctrinated person.
It’s almost like performance art. Horribly annoying while you don’t know what’s going on but imagine the relief that will surge through the fanbase if Casey Hudson comes out and says “Alright guys, you were right. This was a battle inside Shepard’s head and now you get to continue the fight and see the true ending/s, on the house.” People would remember it for years!
You bring up an excellent point, one I am quite torn about:
Should it be tolerated that a developers basically sell a game that is, objectively viewed, incomplete, even if said state of the game allows them to make an artistic statement/plot twist later down the line? Not sure which side of this argument I’d pick, to be honest.
I’d draw my hat towards Bioware for sticking to their guns if that was the case, but I’d still feel sort of “betrayed” for being toyed with.
This is, of course, still very much theoretical until we actually get word from them. *shrugs*
That being said, I’d agree that it would certainly be a very memorable event and a HUGE gamble on Bioware’s side.
Think about it like this:
I’ll use the analogy of Mirror’s Edge: a game which quite a few people thought would be cool but turned out to really just be a terrible game.
The flip-side was that nobody had ever created a game based off of parkour before – it was totally new, revolutionary. Even though after it was said and done, everyone said it sucked, that wasn’t the point!
Same thing here – Bioware is attempting to make a new precident, and hopefully, it will turn out a whole lot better than Mirror’s Edge did.
Here’s hoping they have the sense to make it free DLC. If its £6 / $10 or less I might reluctantly buy it, like the pavlovian Bio-drone that I am, but I definitely won’t feel good about myself for doing it!
Did anyone else hate they way Shepard’s armour changed when it was ruined?
If you are playing in standard N7 armour there’s no problem. But if you are playing in Blood Dragon armour, like I was, the change from that to the banged up N7 armour just looks tacky………….unless, as you say, everything after harbingers beam is happening inside Shepard’s head.
If the “indoctrination theory” is not true, then Shepard must have been hit by the beam and knocked unconscious, change out of his armour into standard armour (maybe he gets it from one of the dead soldiers) and then once it’s on get blown up a second time.
Weird.
Oh good point! The N7 Program represents determination and commitment! (As we see with Shepard’s talks with James Vega). Having the N7 armor broken down is just a further allegory for Indoctrination and Shepard.
I am a huge fan of pretty much everything Bioware has ever done. For a long time my favourite game ever was KOTOR 1 and for the past few years my favourite series of games has been Mass Effect.
While I was playing Mass Effect 3 I have heard people saying on and offline that there is a problem with the ending. Unfortunately like you I have to agree. Everything after Harbinger’s beam in the game as it is now is terrible. I was playing almost in horror, trying to console myself, and saying “No, surely something else is about to happen to make this right.” I was actually saying that out loud.
At the end of any saga that provides the user such free reign to shape the narrative it is difficult to please everybody. But for someone as in love with this game company and series as I am, to feel so massively let down, there must be a pretty major flaw. When you comapre the ending of this game with the standard of the rest of the title, it is at best poor, and at worst disgusting…………unless BioWare planned this all along, and the “Indoctrination Theory” is correct.
The “indocrination theory” now makes sense in my opinion. I have heard other partial versions of this argument before, and not been entirely swayed. Thank you for putting all of this into a coherent format.
Over the past few days I have started to come around to this way of thinking, but I still have some issues with the theory.
1. DLC haters
Some people really hate the idea of paid DLC. They say it is just another way of getting cash from people, and they think that because DLC exists it must mean that the main game, the one you would get if you just put the disc in your console without using any codes or downloading any content, must be only half of the real product.
If the ending for Mass Effect 3 is DLC, and especially if it is DLC that is paid for, people with these opinions will have even more of an issue. And I wouldn’t blame them, because my opinion on the matter is that a “full game” without DLC should be able to stand alone, and shouldn’t really lose anything without the extras that are currently available or will be available in the future.
The current game does not stand alone, without either a DLC for the ending or a DLC to fix the ending. And if this was planned then the explanation that something extra was coming soon should have been more clear, as the way it is now leads to the next problem.
2. Trading in
A lot of gamers play a game once or twice, and then sell it on. This makes sense as in the fist month after a new release the value of the game does not really depreciate that much. There will be thousands of people who have already done this with Mass effect 3. Particularly as the terrible ending the game currently has, makes people not want to replay it. This is evidenced by the fact that at my local game store there are second hand copies of Mass Effect 3 already for sale.
If BioWare have intentionally left us hanging for a month, or more, in order to raise the hype for when the first DLC does come out, then these people have been let down. NO! I would go as far as to say betrayed. And if I had sold my copy of the game only to find out I hadn’t really got to the end of it yet I would want Bioware to send me a new copy of the game, along with a written apology.
This problem would be solved if the final pop up was better. It could say something like, “Coming soon in April, Shepard’s story concludes in the *insert DLC name here* DLC. Available free to all players with an online pass.”
That would make people keep the game, and without giving it away entirely would have reduced a lot of the venom and fire that BioWare has taken over the past few weeks.
3. Out of time.
The last issue I have with this is that if BioWare are going to release an intended ending DLC, they need to do it soon. A month after release sounds about right to me, and on the twitter feed the standard reply when people are asking about dates is just “some time in April,” which fits.
If something is not done by then, people will not believe that BioWare “did it on purpose.” The longer they wait, no matter how good it is, the more it will look like a reaction to the player backlash rather than something they had planned all along. And that precedent would be dangerous.
Despite these issues I really hope the theory is true. I really hope that in about a week, or at least before the end of April, the new ending is released, and everyone is happy. At the moment the “Indocrination theory” is the only thing that allows me to think well of the company that made this great series.
Thank you again for explaining it so well in your video and giving me new hope.
I really hate to poke holes in a theory that I enjoy so much more than the actual ending, but I need these questions answered:
Question: Were Saren’s, Benezia’s or the Rachni Queen’s eyes the same as The Illusive Man’s and Shepherds if chosen Blue/Green? Weren’t those three indoctrinated?
If not, then that point is out of the window. We were all under the impression that The Illusive Man’s eyes were augments, and I felt that Shepherd (being largely synthetic) were too, but made to look as close to the original Shepherd as possible until he starts to get fried.
I only have a PS3, so no original Mass Effect for me, but I can’t really recall from any screenshots where they are like The Illusive Man.
If not, then that point is out of the window.*
* If not as in, if their eyes were not the same.
Just to clarify.
The Indoctrination Theory makes a lot of since and I have more reasons too. For one, the Catalyst takes the form of the innocent child that dies in the end to try and make Shepard believe him (BULLSHIT). Second, if you Paragon the Illusive Man at the end it’s a “Saren Scene” as I call it. It’s using Shepard’s memories against him. Third, and I LOVE this one, the little bitch says that killing the reapers are a bad thing (BULLSHIT again). I don’t know if this is true but someone told me that if you don’t make peace with the Geth then the Catalyst doesn’t refer to them in the end, probably because Shepard wouldn’t feel sorry for them then. The Indoctrination Theory has lifted what felt like an anvil off of my chest. Bioware is likely developing an epilogue DLC right now. (Something else we gotta buy no doubt).
I thought about something too… when the Catalyst explains the options you have, you see glimpses of Anderson and Illusive Man, as if they’ve been there before… but they obviously haven’t, because the Catalyst says Shepard’s the first organic to make it up there.
Maybe those quick flashed with Anderson and Illusive Man is a continuation Shepard’s subconscious from the previous scene (as you said, for example, Anderson symbolising Sherpard’s will)
What’s more! What you mentioned about the breathing scene, about it not being on the Citadel but back on Earth, I agree. On top of the rubble looking like concrete, there’s a blue glow in the area around Shepard… much like the blue glow from the beam he was trying to reach to get to the Citadel
Here’s my question:
We’ve established that the indoctrinated have the “freaky eyes” and The Illusive Man has had these eyes since ME2. So why would The Indoctrinated Illusive Man go through the trouble to bring back Shepard who was killed by The Collectors who were doing The Reapers’ bidding?
Remember the Reaper’s wanted to use an indoctrinated Shepardto ensure victory in this cycle. See ME2′s entry on indoctrinating people of influence.
I wonder what Joe thinks of Spoony’s rant about fan’s reaction towards ME3 ending. I’m not really in a position to talk about this phenomenon because I’ve never played the game nor I care to do so. All I can say is that he has a point. The fan’s reactions are overblown and people shouldn’t get upset about what Spoony says in the video. People don’t even attempt to listen to his points and raise an counter argument against those points.
I do think Spoony came out as an arrogant person and shouldn’t have called them stupid, but at the same time people should listen and respond properly and stop calling him a douche.
Reason 8, about Shepards eyes, shows that there is no counter argument. While the whole dlc thing and the OUTER game issues I agree with.. it is clear that Shepard was written to be indoctrinated at any point between ME1 and ME3 at the two endings that show his eyes to be the same as indoctrinated people.
It’s not an accident and CAN’T reasonably be countered. Everyone still deserves a free ending. This does make me feel a bit better though. At first I thought there was little care given but maybe I was wrong.
(warning contains spoilers)
Actually, it can be reasonably countered. The Indoctrination Theory is definitively speculative in nature.
I’ve heard some vague rationalizations for in response for what I’m about to present, but none that actually make any sense to me:
The Prothean VI on Thessia, Vendetta, clearly has the ability to distinguish between indoctrinated and non-indoctrinated individuals. It freely shares information with Shepard (although it doesn’t reveal the Catalyst because it thinks the cycle is lost and it’s too risky) but when Kai Lang arrives it says “Indoctrinated Presence Detected” and activates a kind of lockdown defense mode.
Further, if Shep is really indoctrinated why allow her/him to help construct the Crucible at all? Why allow Shep to get as close to possible to being able to stop the Reapers and then suddenly yank the rug out from them? It makes no sense.
The evidence, to me, mostly points to a rushed product by Bioware as a result of pressure from EA. The stock photos being used for Tali and the ending sequence, the same endings, the shoddily glued together endgame…it doesn’t point to indoctrination. It points to corporate deadlines ruining a project.
I hope I’m wrong. I hope Bioware finds a brilliant way to pull this off and make it make sense, but I am quite doubtful.