Posted on: Friday, January 18th, 2013
Posted in: News
Comments: 80
Hall’s Pissed About War Z
Dean Hall, creator of the wildly successful DayZ talks about how the rushed The War Z hurt his reputation and about being professional.
The story of The War Z has been an odd trainwreck of a ride to say the least. From its bully tactics, to later admission of guilt and explenation of trying to cash in on the DayZ’s success, it was hoped the story would end there. Unfortunatly due to close similarities in name, design, and aesthetic, the War Z has had a new negative impact on Dean Hall’s reputation as a game designer and lead creator of DayZ.
“I am angry about the War Z. I’m very angry. I’m quite hurt personally because anyone can see how similar the words are, and while the average gamer knows the difference individual people don’t,” Hall explains. “I’ve had family members/close friends mistake the difference and confront me about what they believed was unethical behavior they thought I was making.”
“I really don’t think anyone can understand just quite how exasperated that can make you feel when you’ve gambled everything on something, put your whole self and reputation on the line. So it hasn’t made my life very pleasant, and I disagree entirely with the conduct and how consumers have been treated.”
Its understandable, as Dean had spent his time working on DayZ for himself, to create an enjoyable game he and his friends could play and not just to get noticed by anyone. So when those same people were fooled by the War Z, and thought Dean had been at the helm, it left a bitter taste in his mouth. If only the War Z team could be so grossly incandescent.
“I also think there is something immoral about not standing up for what you honestly think. I think I’ve been pretty guarded about what I’ve said, I have said far less than any single major review site has said and nobody is calling them unprofessional. Nobody is calling Steam unprofessional for removing the game.
“I think a good developer should be a person not a professional,” Hall added. “Because games are personal. I care more about being a good person, and if that conflicts with some abstract sense of professionalism then to hell with professionalism.
“I made DayZ for the game I want to play, not because I wanted a career in it.”
Sources:
Eurogamer
Escapist Magazine
GamesIndustry.biz
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80 thoughts on “Hall’s Pissed About War Z”
I have not played the game, but I know people that did, and I have seen some of their woes with this game. One instance is one of my friends, after buying the game and playing for 2 weeks, had maybe 10 minutes of actual game time due to being spawn-killed and having to wait to an hour to respawn. The in-game store is a rip. It’s common to see them in MMO’s nowadays, but it’s generally in FREE download games. WarZ is a game you have to purchase in order to play. My next statement is the one that pisses me off the most. PAYING TO PLAY A GAME IN BETA! I didn’t buy Minecraft for the same reason. In my eyes, that’s not an acceptable business practice. Alpha and Beta periods are meant for testing in order to make sure the final product is ready to be sold. All-in-all, I would have to say this game is a disaster on the level of Krakatoa.
To be fair, when you payed to play the Minecraft beta you also were granted access to the full game when it released, for a cheaper price even. It would have been unacceptable had they charged full price.
There are so many things wrong with this post. Your friend had the game for 2 weeks, and had 10 minutes of actual game time due to being “spawn killed”? That does NOT happen as often as that. And he had to wait an hour to respawn? LOL. Did he realize that you have 5 characters slots for that exact reason? This isn’t a typical MMO where you have a single character that you are focused on at a time. You bounce between characters by design. I do agree with you about paying to play a game that’s in Beta, but I got the game for $15 at launch in October and have been playing it off and on since, and it’s definitely been worth the $15. There are points where I want to slap the shit out of the devs, but then there are other times where I want to thank them for actually fixing shit that is broken. They have done alot recently, like adding Punkbuster (finally) to get rid of hackers, implementing VOIP, fixing the loot so it’s actually realistic and balanced and much more. Give the game a chance before you bash it, especially when you’re on source is a friend that has no idea wtf he is talking about.
I can not believe that I find warz on top bought indie games again, it sickens me to find it on steam again
And here we are, on the topic that angers me maybe more than Joe himself. This is my 1st post on this website and i only recently found this godsend of a reviewer who is not, at least currently, being paid by publishers to write “Favorable” reviews.
The WarZ is the MOST OBVIOUS cash grab and scam of a “video game” that i can recall since AS FAR BACK AS I CAN REMEMBER! I have never seen so very many people defend such utter TRASH. I’ve seen fanboys defend some dumb shit like the terrible Sonic games, argue over which console is better and rush to the aid of publishers and developers using shitty business practices. But i have NEVER seen anything quite like WarZ… This game… i mean my god… where to start? I’ll start by saying no i never played it and i damn sure don’t have to to know what this abomination is. The WarZ is the most blatant rip off, cash grabbing scam that i’ve ever seen or known in the video game industry since i was born in 1990. I’ve been an avid gamer most of my life and this kind of business from “Hammerpoint Interactive” and companies like Capcom with they’re on disc DLC and EA with they’re full price releases WITH micro transactions literally fill me with rage and make me fucking SICK to my stomach.
The very very worst part of all of this is that we as gamers are completely responsible for all of these things turning into regular practices. Now some of these said practices have been rebelled against thankfully, but there is nothing like what Arktos, or rather “Hammerpoint”, has done with The WarZ. i played DayZ for quite some time and actually bought Arma 2 just to try the Mod. Now i’m not some fan boy of it but i would defend it where it deserved to be defended, however, i wouldn’t defend DayZ in the face of the clear flaws and problems it currently has which is something most WarZ fans (fanboys maybe) can’t say.
DayZ has grown a lot, recently especially, and is truly starting to become a pretty full featured Mod. It always, more or less, has been just that, a fully featured MOD, a MODIFICATION OF THE BASE GAME, and has been improved as such and it does not claim to be a standalone or retail release especially in the state its in, which btw is FAR AND AWAY a lot more refined, playable and less problematic than what i can gather from the WarZ, but the mod itself is shaping up nicely. Also the mod will continue even after the standalone is released alongside it.
Is it amazing? it can be, Dayz has its amazing moments and i’m sure WarZ has some amazing moments too. Is it finished? No it certainly is not and neither is the WarZ, however, id say DayZ, considering its had more time albeit with far less people working on it to grow since its been in ACTUAL DEVELOPMENT longer than WarZ, is growing into exactly what it set out to be where as WarZ only sets out to imitate a game that A. wasn’t and isn’t finished and B. was clearly heading towards full retail and steal as many of its customers as possible with TONS of clear and obvious scam tactics, misinformation and misleading. Is it worth buying Arma 2 Combined Operations for? Thats subjective and really up to the person in question but all i can say about that is in comparison to WarZ, Dayz doesn’t actually cost money, (unless like me you bought Arma 2 CO for the mod) was an original idea, (at the time) and isn’t a blatant scam to pull customers away from an original idea that succeeded even as a free mod. When DayZ 1st came out it wasn’t the most popular mod but as it grew and gained momentum the Arma 2 Combined Operations bundle SKYROCKETED to the top of the steam sales charts and all with none of the false claims that Arktos has made for WarZ. Sergey Titov caught onto this “DayZ thing” and acted quickly and the rest is history.
DayZ was in development and was completely developed AS A MOD long before Arktos/Hammerpoint/Sergey Assclown decided that the millions of people who discovered and loved DayZ we’re probably retarded and could be exploited. The WarZ started ACTUAL development only months after DayZ boomed and while Hammerpoint claims to have started at least as a concept before DayZ its pretty damn obvious that DayZ came 1st and The WarZ only came to be from Sergey Titov’s dream of exploiting and scamming as many people as he possibly could. So many people have made this clear and there are many many facts and much information around the web to support this. Yet Sergey Titov has no remorse for the damage he has done to Dean Hall and the people around him, the WarZ customers and has no shame and won’t admit to what was and is a clear, straight up RIP OFF of a game that was just announced to be in development as a retail game. WarZ is only here to make money off you FOOLS who defend it and while WarZ might be fun or have some charms you people who defend it are still FOOLS and IDIOTS for supporting such shady and terrible business practices in such a cherished industry and hobby for many proud people.
We as gamers are proud its pretty much a fact and we don’t like people exploiting us. We take to the internet in droves when something pisses us off, we bitch and moan till someone hears us and we make petitions just for this kind of thing. My whole point of this HUGE, UNNECESSARY and GARBLED MESS of a post is to point out what is already obvious to most but not clear to some. THE WARZ IS A FUCKING SCAM! that is all this game is… yes its a video game… yes it works… kind of…. yes it costs money, you can play online, ACTUAL PEOPLE WORKED ON THIS GAME… But the whole reason of The WarZ’s existence is to steal… it is literally stealing, thieving and illegal. What these people have done is a blatant breach of LAW, not just some code we want developers to live by but an actual case of people making a game with the sole intention of stealing customers and money and pushing an unfinished product out the door to beat its only competitor. If something like this happened in any other industry you’d better believe someone would be going to prison, being sued or being exposed in mainstream. The WarZ is such an under cooked, unfinished mess of a game that its hard to classify it as even being in ALPHA for christ’s sake… and yet there are still people out there who support this… this… fucking SCAM… and it makes me sad. It is literally as if there are some gamers who WANT to see the game industry self implode by supporting things like WarZ, Micro-transactions in full priced games, on disc DLC, yearly releases, dumbing down or mainstreaming complex games and so on and so forth. I’m getting tired of doing these posts and these rants that probably make me look and sound ridiculous… but if you people actually give a shit about the video game industry and the direction its heading in then STOP FUCKING SUPPORTING AND DEFENDING COMPLETE BULLSHIT LIKE THIS!
@Ulffie55
I absolutely agree with you, it stuns me that complete fucking morons (excuse the swear word) would rush to the defense of this game like @Mitchell (whom you will see me arguing with lower down the page).
It just stuns… it exasperates me that people would support such utter garbage behavior with such ridiculous arguments to boot. With “proper” (and I use that word lightly) reviewers it’s easy to know their motivations (Higher the money, Higher the scores!), but ordinary consumers? WTF? And not even any real arguments to back it up.
WarZ is a blatant scam run by talentless developers
Also if @Mitchell reads this, go fuck yourself for acting so high and mighty on your tower of false arguments and out-of-touch-of-reality positions.
(Sorry about the swearing, but reading this reminded me how much @Mitchell really pissed me off).
If Dean Hall want to sue creator of War Z, go ahead. War Z got too much controversials. I’m no know much about lawyer. War Z is a rip-off to DayZ.
such a shame that Hall is getting backlash for a cheap hash of his original idea that he had no part in partaking in
I fell for this War Z scam… it’s crap and they aren’t even giving people their bonuses that they paid for now like the servers and in game money.
Wow. The fact that Hall got backlash makes me cringe. He’s a good man, he doesn’t deserve that because some corporate scammers copied his game and tried to effectively leech from his success.
IT does doesn’t it Day Z is such a AMAZING concept and people mistaking War Z for Day Z is saddening.
I personally got a refund for this game, it just flat out refused to start and then when it did- no servers found. wtf
Still buggy even today its like your are playing an alpha stage game that’s polished.
Maybe when they actually finish it I will repurchase.
wtf? ive never heard this before. what idiots blame the devs from DayZ for the shit thats wrong with WarZ? i dont know any “average gamers” that play Arma. everyone who plays Arma is a hardcore PC enthusiast, you pretty much have to be in order to control the character and understand how to use everything. i can understand being angry that Titov is stealing Hall’s Clientele but who is dumb enough to think the two companies/people are working together? srsly?
since day 1 ive heard nothing but bickering between the two communities over who stole what ideas from who. how can someone interpret that as Hall’s fault when its more than obvious that he had nothing to do with one of these games. i feel sorry for Hall’s poor choice in friends and ignorant family members than anything else. at least the developers and real gamer’s know who is responsible for what games.
i personally like both games, War Z a little more because its easier to play and doesn’t take 3 hours to find a decent weapon. but thats not to say that warZ is actually better. ive run into hundreds of hackers and the game has horrible audio issues, as well as server hopping and a COD like community that is only interested in killing rather than cooperative play. ive even ran into people who claim to be friendly and walk with me for about 20 or 30 minutes until i get shot in the back and have all my stuff looted.
Many people are buying Arma2 just for DayZ so saying its free to play may be correct in some aspects but for someone who has never played either game and does not have Arma2 then you are paying regardless. I have played both games quite a lot and although the debacle with Steam was a huge mistake by WarZ, ABSOLUTELY! Its unfortunate that all this bad publicity has been directed at Hall when maybe some research into the issue would clarify things. Its already been shown in the forum that some people just don’t bother to read about the problem before expressing their opinion.
I had been playing DayZ with my son before we had heard about WarZ from a friend. We checked out their website and it had clearly stated that it was in Alpha stage and you could buy it early for $15 and test it. I hadn’t even heard about the steam issue until recently because I had already bought the game. Its no brainer that they screwed up with Steam but coming from a person who has played both games I can say that WarZ has done a better job. They copied what DayZ did but what idea hasn’t been copied by someone, somewhere right? It happens in books, movies, games, music, everywhere! DayZ has some good ideas that I think WarZ should COPY as well as make up their own of course. The inventory interface in DayZ is crap. Sure you can learn how to use it after awhile but it is not user friendly at all. The graphics are crap and the worst thing of all is the bloody zombies! They twitch and run like freaks. They are sooo buggy. The animation is horrible and that is the main part of the game right? Zombies? And this is after just playing DayZ a couple of days ago because I wanted to see if they had improved any of the game play because I like parts of that game more than WarZ. But no the zombies still act like idiots. DayZ has a lot more items to collect and objects to pick up in the game which is great. I like the ocean landscape and senery. I also love the vehical aspect of the game. It adds a whole new dynamic to the game I think and hope that WarZ COPIES it and puts it in their game. The store in WarZ is crap in my opinion too. Anyone that buys anything in there is an idiot in my opinion because as soon as you die that item is lost to you, unless of course you can get back to where that other user killed you and kill him before they jump servers. WarZ is making improvements to the game (slowly I might add) and is trying to combat the hackers but what game doesn’t have issues with hackers sometimes. It is becoming a better game all the time. There are definitely issues with WarZ but for me I knew what I paid for and expected issues so if you completely wipe the shit about Steam from the picture than I’m happy to say that WarZ has done a better job of the zombie survival genre.
WarZ is a good example of what’s wrong in the industry. More specifically, it’s a good example of how a microtransaction system can go bad. It’s sad, because we’ve seen so many prime examples of wrongness in the last year, let alone the last five.
I feel bad for Hall, because his DayZ is, despite being in alpha and requiring you to buy a game and an expansion to use it, a fun and challenging experience. Heck, I’ve learned how to evade zombies like a champ, but even with the amount of practice I have I still sometimes get hit with a lucky shot and go down with a broken leg, or unconscious.
I’m hoping things will proceed with the standalone, because in all honestly it’s a unique and still-fresh experience.
I just wish there would be an end of vehicle hording >.< Seriously, why would you need more than two vehicles? At least leave the old bikes around lol.
WarZ will probably never get back on steam until the advertisements are real and a finished game but WarZ has time to fix issues but I think it will not become a FULL game until 2014 or 15
Not even close to 2014-15 more like 2340 or something those guys really dont know what they are doing
I really cant express how pissed off I am about the entire warz thing. I have seen vids about it read some articles and i am more in shock as to how WarZ even GOT into steam? Its an obviously unfinished game and a blatant ripoff of dayz? i mean…isnt any law that can shut down warz as copyright infrigment? if not THERE SHOULD BE
it does make a very good dayz poster I will admit as it brings humor to it
and as for the guy mentioning the minecraft comparison, people seem to forget one main aspect… IT IS MINECRAFT, a PIXEL game, and WARZ is a game supposed to be based to be as real as possible, comparing it to minecraft is like comparing ice cream(minecraft) to lettuce and the guy your telling this to loves his veggies and ice cream, but I doubt he would like it if the lettuce is extremely rotten to the core, and its lead dev is a greedy money grubber who worked on big rigs, and does a “its the consumers fault” tactic, I bet he is using the money he got from sales right now and whipping his butt with it and throwing it in random strangers faces just like in a movie I had seen to which they run away in fear of this obviously insane person, and I doubt he could spell insane with out a typo , in fact I bet if he typed something this long it would be incoherent about as much as a turtle on massive drugs in a bar being cooked alive on 4 for 5 hours WHILE it sings a gibberish song
so long story short as it can be:
sergey types like this” usaboogaloogagoogaloogaboogalooga”
he is the worst corporate strategist “contu plaing or wi blakist uuuuu”
he bans people for giving constructive criticism “no thar ant no zambi glihis, thi duh noet ruun fastoor then plar noar do the HEMAN hav any super stranfgth
and his fanbase can only defend the game by comparing it to games in a totally different genre and is about SQUARES…fun squares as they may be that is comparing cheese to solid plastic, all it says is we have 16×16 textures, I love MC but I agree with anyone who says stop comparing the 2 games, oh and when MC came out, they bluntly said in simple lettering UNFINISHED GAME TELL US WHAT YOU THINK, and they did just that, they listened to their consumers and took their criticism,
here is what sergey did, ahem : buy ar game and sai it good ur els” see the flaw?
oh sorry did I say lead dev, I meant comedian for he has given us lots of laughs in his attempts to calm the customers
i just heard something about the map being around 10 KM long…
that war z poster is a Rip off of Alan Wake’s American Nightmare poster.
You don’t read comments before posting do you?
Oh, poor guy this Dean Hall. I mean, this FUCKING game first stole money from a gamer. Then Dean here takes the blame! And DayZ is actually pretty fun to play.
So somehow… comparing this game to a pixelated mining simulator, makes the company’s practices legit. Oh Internet, you so funny.
How could people honestly think that the creator of Day Z had anything to do with War Z? I haven’t played either games and with a LITTLE research I found out he had nothing to do with it. He should be disappointed that his fans, friends, and family would are make accusations at him without at least doing a LITTLE research on their own. Maybe someone could tell me why he would have people confronting him about that if it was so easy for me to look up?
That War Z image is a rippof from Alan Wake American Nightmare.
You missed the point, it was a fan made wallpaper for DayZ, I slapped War Z on it badly as a joke and added the text of Arma 2 to it.
Thanks for playing.
So what ever happened to your coverage of Star Citizen? You said you going to do an interview months ago, but nothing ever came of it.
Wait so I… as in not Joe said I would be covering Star Citizen? When was this?
I believe there was a conflict in scheduling. I’m pretty sure Roberts is aware of Angry Joe and will make time for an interview, or if time presses I’m sure Eric Peterson would be happy to cater an interview as well.
oh, my bad… I did mean joe. That’s my fault.
I am not sure, but is the main art cover of this page from the page maker as a joke, or is it warZ art, because if it is…
COMPARE IT TO ALAN WAKE’s American nightmare
if not, then I say bravo to the page maker for working a joke to a tragic tale of how a good man lost his credibility of his fans because of the fat, greedy, ignorant man known as sergey titov
I only say bravo to he who is light hearted even in such dark of times, and may he be blessed with restful and beautiful sleep at night
The base artwork was a fan of DayZ making a joke about how the Alan Wake cover artwork for American Nightmare looks better as a DayZ promotional ad, and so they made a wallpaper of it. I then took it and badly bandaged War Z over the DayZ logo in the back, and added DayZ (aka Arma 2) text on the bottom left side with Dark Souls references… because that’s my shtick.
Its a pity cause WarZ might have actually been good lol, when you look at the things they promise it does sound good, the only real MAJOR broken thing in the game is the hackers. If they fixed that it might actually be playable.
But yeh I have to agree that the developers or at least that Sergey guy are blatantly money grabbing in most area’s. What pisses me off the most is that they said they were making WarZ before DayZ which is complete BS cause the game is pretty much a complete copy.
To me the game doesn’t suck as much as everyone says it does, its just the devs. they are the ones that suck. That and the hackers, which common your not a true game if you don’t despise hackers I mean when do they actually do anything good apart from destroy, they are the real bandits of the game industry.
they got their anti-cheat working better since a recent patch, but it’s a problem with all games. Signing on with PunkBuster or something would be wise for these guys, because the hackers hack…um…a lot…
The proper term is “crackers”.
Yes, I know everyone but real hackers calls them “hackers”, but they are obviously not “hackers” since they don’t create, they destroy. Nor are they playing with technology for the sake of playing with technology (the defining characteristic of a real hacker). This distinction is very important.
Jargon file.
You don’t call a gang thug marine, so why would you call a three-trick pony hacker?
Both Hackers and Crackers, are destroyers……. either way its easier to call the Hackers because that’s what everyone calls them true to the name or not as long as people understand what I am saying.
It’s a real pity, this guy is negatively impacted by this and it wasn’t his fault, I hope people know that Dean Hall and DayZ had nothing to do (directly) with WarZ.
It’s taking a lot for me right now not to say something to get banned… It’s getting really stupid how the WarZ is perceived as so scandalous. Their marketing team is retarded, sure, but the devs are all hard working on a game plagued by angry hackers, ALPHA STAGE BUGS, [IT'S BARELY IN BETA, COME ON] and biased journalists reviewing the game before release. [I'm pointing at you IGN's Gallagos...] Really the worst part about the game is how it’s being portrayed. It has around 800,000 copies sold… that’s not a ton by industry standard but that’s probably a $20 million dollar revenue. The absurd number of people dissing the game probably haven’t even played it, and it’s illegitimate ratings are based on an unfinished product in testing. Where’s the fairness in that?
They don’t do enough to show that the game is in a clearly Alpha stage. It also shamelessly rips off Day Z in both name and ideas, and releases barely working yet with a fully functional cash shop. It’s clear that the reason they released it now was in order to latch on to the success of Day Z, as in a few years (when this product would actually be complete) the Day Z craze would have gone. It was slapped together with War inc texture and a terms of usage copied from league of legends, simply trying to get out the game as fast as possible (but not before building a fully functional cash shop, offering no demo and releasing at $15 with an unfinished Alpha stage game. Compared to something like Minecraft, with a demo, release at lesser price, original and completely working (items were simply added later on, but the game had a ton at features at release that no one had ever done before) this game is an utter insult to the gaming community, and honest devs like Dean.
***THIS IS LONG, BUT VERY THOROUGH***
What you’ve just listed, my good sir, is a startlingly similar production process to minecraft. while I do agree that the terms of use was a an entirely dumb and lazy decision, consider where you might find information on its alpha stage. All release notes are on the forums, including the statements of the game’s development. if you read the Dev Diary it explains thoroughly that the game is and was released for TESTING in an unfinished state. However, the state in which it became playable is a progressively developed and comprehensively tested method. Minecraft had an identical sales setup. Classic version was simply a free trial limited to certain features. Once survival became viable, they required you to pay a reduced fee in order to purchase an account usable online. Then, after a year or so of multiple alpha/beta stages, the game was released with a new, higher fixed price with an extended set of features. In the WarZ, it was originally priced at a $15 dollar minimum for those wishing to pre-order. [This was the package I purchased] All preorder packages came with perks in place of a reduced price, such as in-game cash, special nameplates, and private server hosting. This is the same with Minecraft. So in fact, the Minecraft argument is completely false unfortunately. I don’t say any of this to just be a snide brat, I actually care about this game. That being said, I’d also like to argue against the scores that reviewers have given the game. They were entirely unfair and entirely out of typical format. Especially in regard to Anthony Gallegos of IGN, reviews were released prematurely based on a very basic form of the game. This is VERY VERY BAD because it’s a poor reflection on IGN when it takes them several months to scrape together a Minecraft review weeks after release, but they waste absolutely no time crafting a WarZ review an entire year before the final draft is due. This kind of media portrayal is actually the exact kind of sneaky journalism that Joe rants about in his “Gaming Controversies” video. Sponsorships for games to earn good marks, journalism that really focuses on celebrities, and poorly conducted research on topics which these journalists are supposed to be the authorities on. Props if you actually made it through the whole thing… now time to debunk someone else…
Sorry but where you seem to miss the point is Minecraft and Mojang specifically made abundantly clear that they were in an alpha build of the game and that buying their product would be getting you early access to an unfinished game. Where as Hammerpoint Interactive, outright lied to its consumer base claiming the game had been finished and was a foundation build AFTER they had finished alpha and beta testing, it even got to the point where Sergey Titov, the lead designer of the game, admitted he lied and asked for an apology from all those he wronged and for being arrogant and banning people who had legitimate claims against the product he had produced.
Your notion that IGN was unjust in its practice has no basis in facts, as IGN did wait, just like everyone else, for Mojang and Notch to declare that Minecraft was being released, the same thing Hammerpoint Interactive declared with the release of The War Z on Steam and thus its epic bomb of reviews that waited for its release. By actually comparing Minecraft to the War Z you actually do more damage to just how money grubbing Hammerpoint Interactive was in this event, as they have a pay to play and also micro-transaction system which has never been part of Minecraft.
You also talk about poorly conducted research which I now level towards you, as it seems you are grasping at straws and ignoring, what the developers themselves actually stated in their public and open apology to all their consumers.
True Mojang was specific, but that’s a hairy position. Specific is hard to be “specific” about. And I don’t recall an admittance of lies, but I did read a letter addressing community concern over false bans [fixed] and reports of scams. It’s like buying a Yacht, you have to know what your actually purchasing and read the fine print. The fine print is legal to have, but always gets scrutiny. Microtransactions i’d say are equal to upkeep on a yacht. Where’s the darn gasoline? Did you pack fishing gear? I know I might sound stupid to someone wearing earplugs, but consider it. It’s alllllll….legal… at least that’s the most basic defense.
Mitchell, they outright lied about the game’s features on the steam. The reason it got reviewed is because it’s 1.0, as in RELEASE, out of beta. And as for complaints to the microtransactions, the reason people complain is because Hammerpoint seemed fine with finishing the microtransaction system before working on the actual game so it was remotely playable. Not only that, a cash shop has no place in a SURVIVAL GAME, you can easily lose items to hackers, and you have to pay to respawn in a reasonable amount of time. Also, the game is quite frankly terrible for many reasons and is a blatant clone of DayZ. To use your Yacht analogy, this is the equivalent of a salesman setting up a stall at Target, selling you(and many others) a new yacht for a low price, and then when you get to the docks you find out he sold you a crappy fishing boat with no engine or rudders, a leaky hull, an infestation of rats and bugs, and unusually high upkeep. Then, when you and everyone else go to complain, you find a bunch of people defending him. Meanwhile he ducktapes the mouths of complaining people, steals the boats form people who use their boats alot or complain, and ducktapes some of the holes on the boat. He then has the balls to say everyone misheard him when he said new yacht, and that they should’ve walked to the docks first. He then stops saying NEW yacht, but is quickly kicked out of Target before having somebody he knows say he is sorry and that he was a jackass. As for the legal bit, I’m pretty sure false advertising, forcing people to sign TOS that make refunds impossible, and threatening people with Corporate blacklists is pretty illegal.
I’m not entirely sure but didn’t Terraria “rip off” Minecraft? hm…
Not even close, in concept, execution or design. People referenced it as a 2-D Minecraft when neither system is at all similar and only share the pixelated design aesthetic.
Where as War Z, which has now lost the right to even use the name War Z because the owners of World War Z filed a suit against them, copied every last aspect and design decision DayZ made but also added a cash shop ontop of it.
WarZ was released as a finished version 1.0 product, The developers referred to it as a foundation version release meaning they felt calling it “Beta” was no longer necessary.
Strange that they have a fully working microtransaction system, that rips off people twice, you buy that shit and than you die and loose everything you bought and you want to honestly defend it?
Claiming it would be Alpha or something is silly, they promoted it as a working game, with wrong advertisment and stolen name its jsut a pure rip off form Day Z, they wanted to cash in.
That would be like someone making a game called Niablo 3 or Lyrim and tellling you that they never heard of Diablo or Skyrim.
I’m making this one blunt, but you have to be somewhat ignorant to not realize that all items are expendable in a survival game involving PVP…
@Mitchell
Your argument is flawed in so many ways it’s painful to look at.
“ALPHA STAGE BUGS, [IT'S BARELY IN BETA, COME ON]”
That is no excuse whatsoever, this game was sold as a complete product, complete with a list of features that weren’t even in the game (false advertising).
Saying that this game is in Alpha or Beta etc. is simply making pointless and/or misguided attempts to defend a game that isn’t worth defending. And the argument you use simply has no merit whatsoever, none at all, there is not one ounce of sense in it.
Want to know why? Here is some evidence:
“Hammerpoint Interactive’s game of survival and zombie slaying, The War Z, was released on Steam today. This launch of the “Foundation Release” version follows periods of beta and alpha testing that ran” earlier year.”
It appears to me your little argument doesn’t even hold up, because they already went through Alpha and Beta testing. Therefore, your entire Alpha/Beta excuse is absolute garbage.
“biased journalists reviewing the game before release. [I'm pointing at you IGN's Gallagos...]”
What plane of reality do you live in? I personally never go to IGN, yet when I looked up that so called “Pre-Release review” of yours. Guess what I found out? Look at this line specifically in the review:
“Instead, The War Z’s “Foundation Release” is littered with bugs and other technical issues.”
The same Foundation Release that was officially released, this isn’t based on pre-released gameplay, but the actual release itself (that has already supposedly gone through Alpha and Beta testing). Therefore your arguments are nothing more then paranoid ramblings.
“It has around 800,000 copies sold… that’s not a ton by industry standard but that’s probably a $20 million dollar revenue.”
Thanks for stating a pointless fact, if it was meant to back up your next point, you needn’t have bothered.
“the absurd number of people dissing the game probably haven’t even played it”
Oh please, that is even worse and more desperate an excuse then your Alpha/Beta argument.
People don’t need to play things to know it’s bad, They can hear from the opinions of the people who bought the game and who thought it was bad, or simply played it and thought it was bad etc. Seriously this is basic sense, why the hell do you think review sites and opinion blogs exist?
“and it’s illegitimate ratings are based on an unfinished product in testing.”
And I’ve proved that review site, the one you specifically mentioned), based their review on the “Foundation Release”. Which has supposedly already gone through testing.
Your entire argument is based on lies, misinformation, deceit and cover-up. I want to say something stronger to reinforce this but I won’t. Take at heart that your entire post is absolute garbage, has no merit whatsoever, and looks as if it were written in a different plane of reality. I personally take affront at your blatant attempts to portray absolute garbage as the gospel truth.
Look at your post, look at mine, and realize your mistake. If you continue along this facade of garbage, just know you have no excuse for not knowing the flaws of your entire position.
“The absurd number of people dissing the game probably haven’t even played it, and it’s illegitimate ratings are based on an unfinished product in testing. Where’s the fairness in that?”
Where is the fairness for the players who were duped into buying this broken game (I know Valve refunded those who bought off Steam)? What about independent developers like Dean Hall who has had his reputation and standing crushed by the backlash from WarZ?
You’re all too willing to defend those “poor developers (Hammerpoint Interactive)”, but you seem to ignore all those who have genuinely been negatively impacted by this. While the developer lines their pocket, people are being negatively impacted by this, and you ignore their side and their genuine woes.
You sir, insult me and you insult all those who have been negatively impacted by this. So on behalf of them, I say your entire attempt to defend this developer has been absolute garbage from the start.
P.S If you think I am wrong on any of these points, feel free to reply, I concede graciously if the other person rightfully points out a flaw in my post.
I want to go all night with this argument, and I like skepticism, thanks. To address your first statement attacking my Alpha/Beta argument, I’d like to say that, as mentioned above, Minecraft was marketed in the same manner. from the start of Alpha, you were required to pay cash in order to acquire a Minecraft account for use online, just like WarZ. Also, in your statement that the game advertises falsely, I do have to agree, but to a partial extent. On the WarZ main website, there is no mention of any sort of features that are currently not in the game. If you read carefully through the game’s summary, you will find no specific mentions of features such as vehicles or skills, which are the main points of many arguments. On the other end though, the screenshots use are almost all exclusively unavailable, which brings into question Arktos’s marketing credibility. However, this should have no bearing on Hammerpoint’s programmers who are nothing more than graphics designers and code monkeys, not salesman, Also, there is a heavy overweight of misinformation dwarfing the truth. The statement that the game was in “foudnation” release when it debuted on Steam is misleading. This only means that the game is a chasis with an engine that runs, no seats, tires or airbags. In other words, the game is still officially in Beta. Once again, I reiterate, the only accurate information is what is displayed on the WarZ forums. Granted, it’s released by Hammerpoint, but there is no “inside man” from gamespot or some “informant” from PC Gamer who knows a speck better than the developers themselves. That is where Alpha/Beta/Foundation data gets warped. Also, i’d be curious to know if you know the date of which the game became available, as that may improve you bearing on the game’s development schedule and why it’s not in a full release state. Furthermore, going into the IGN portion of the post, I know Gallagos mentioned the “Foundation release”, however that makes no difference when compared to not only the Minecraft review which had a very similarly conducted development schedule, but every IGN review done on virtually any game. They were all done after the day of release, not during development, not in an early access conference. IGN is the example, not the whole however. Also, I mentioned their sales and profit just to give a scope on how the game isn’t “failing” as critics claim. If Arktos is producing a solid million copy IP, then there has been worse failures indicating that the WarZ isn’t some kind of first-strain infectious cancer of the industry. And also, the basis of the Steam “scams” is a touchy one. Valve signed on WarZ as their own risk for reward contract. However, Arktos’s marketing department failed to accurately depict the game on Steam as unfinished. This is where the media attention blew up negatively because Steam is such a big outlet. Although refunds were readily available for the miss-communication, no one outside of their company walls can say remotely for sure that the potential mix up was a blatant scam. And also, it peeves me to see someone get heated about this argument to toss insults at others at something it seems apperant most disregard. You said this: “Your entire argument is based on lies, misinformation, deceit and cover-up. I want to say something stronger to reinforce this but I won’t. Take at heart that your entire post is absolute garbage, has no merit whatsoever, and looks as if it were written in a different plane of reality. I personally take affront at your blatant attempts to portray absolute garbage as the gospel truth.” [Here comes the counter nasty stuff] However I cannot disagree with you more on my argument being lies. Of course, I feel that no direct counter argument was made against a portrayal of the game so much as a forum post was yelled at by someone of an opposite opinion. And lastly, I actually know many who were negatively impacted by some of Arktos’s dirty dealings, however the company more than made up for it. Bans were repealed and actually compensated for with in game cash to name a specific. And… at that, I say JOE BE WITH YOU.
The reason that Minecraft was reviewed one release was, again, that Mojang never claimed the Alpha to be a finished product, while Hammerpoint did say that it was a finished product and what they were doing was afterwords improving the game, a.k.a. what you would expect in a patch, no build the game itself. I also bring to question how lazily and rushed the game was made, using almost no unique texture and a naming that clearly hopes to leech off of the reputation built by Day Z. There was a clear intention with the release and production of this game, latch onto success built by others and try to make a quick buck, and see how it goes from there. I would also like to add that the website for War Z looks very neatly done, as does all the cash features, and nowhere does it mention that there are things such as copied material from their other games, nor anything about a game in progress of being developed, the contract is copied from another game and heck, the F.A.Q. on their main website hasn’t even been finished. Everything about War Z was clearly designed to make it look complete when it’s really not, making you have to dig deeper to find out everything it’s lacking in. This is not just marketing, this is a question of the intentions of the projects as a whole. There is clear intention to trick customers into buying an unfinished product, as the order in which things were developed and how they were presented makes no sense if they did not want to trick customers into buying this game. There is simply too much evidence against the company that proves that this project was made and presented with hazardous intentions in mind,a ll for the sake of money.
@Mitchel
“it peeves me to see someone get heated about this argument to toss insults at others at something it seems apperant most disregard. You said this: “Your entire argument is based on lies, misinformation, deceit and cover-up. I want to say something stronger to reinforce this but I won’t. Take at heart that your entire post is absolute garbage, has no merit whatsoever, and looks as if it were written in a different plane of reality. I personally take affront at your blatant attempts to portray absolute garbage as the gospel truth.” [Here comes the counter nasty stuff] However I cannot disagree with you more on my argument being lies. Of course, I feel that no direct counter argument was made against a portrayal of the game so much as a forum post was yelled at by someone of an opposite opinion. And lastly, I actually know many who were negatively impacted by some of Arktos’s dirty dealings, however the company more than made up for it. Bans were repealed and actually compensated for with in game cash to name a specific. And… at that, I say JOE BE WITH YOU.”
Your certainly right in this paragraph, I did go too far, my sincerest apologies.
And while I may disagree with you, you certainly don’t deserve to be insulted for having an opposing view.
But I still hold to my position. I’m afraid your counterpoints have done little to convince me.
Seriously, your argument is full of so many inconsistencies that it really makes no sense.
Why the hell are you defending this? this kind of practice is unacceptable plain and simple.
And in hindsight retract my apology, I meant every word I said sir when I said:
“Your entire argument is based on lies, misinformation, deceit and cover-up. I want to say something stronger to reinforce this but I won’t. Take at heart that your entire post is absolute garbage, has no merit whatsoever, and looks as if it were written in a different plane of reality. I personally take affront at your blatant attempts to portray absolute garbage as the gospel truth.”
““The absurd number of people dissing the game probably haven’t even played it, and it’s illegitimate ratings are based on an unfinished product in testing. Where’s the fairness in that?”
Where is the fairness for the players who were duped into buying this broken game (I know Valve refunded those who bought off Steam)? What about independent developers like Dean Hall who has had his reputation and standing crushed by the backlash from WarZ?
You’re all too willing to defend those “poor developers (Hammerpoint Interactive)”, but you seem to ignore all those who have genuinely been negatively impacted by this. While the developer lines their pocket, people are being negatively impacted by this, and you ignore their side and their genuine woes.
You sir, insult me and you insult all those who have been negatively impacted by this. So on behalf of them, I say your entire attempt to defend this developer has been absolute garbage from the start.”
Screw WarZ, it’s a bad game from bad developers who cheated gamers with bullying, false advertising and a broken product. And any amount of flawed arguments and foot-stomping from you will not change that @Mitchell.
Here is a few list of the lies that they posted.
The War Z is a Survival Horror MMO that immerses players in a zombie-infested, post-apcalyptic world in which a viral outbreak has decimated the human population leaving in its wake a nightmare of epic proportion.
(No mention of being alpha/beta without features)
A huge Persistent World: The War Z is an open world game. Each world has area between 100 to 400 square kilometers.
(Only 1 map and it was only 72 square km)
Play with Friends: Hundreds of Servers to Play on and you can also rent and create Public or Private Servers allocating spots for Friends or Clans.
(No private servers)
No Classes, No Levels, No Caps: Create your own survival campaign, gain experience points and spend it to learn dozen of available skills.
(Nope no skills)
Two modes to Play: Normal and Hardcore.
(Again nope No Hardcore mode)
Up to 100 Players per Game Server.
(The real number is only up to 50)
Dedicated Public Servers as well as Private Servers.
(nope as said before)
Ability to keep non-perishable items even after character death.
(Not true)
The is for the foundation release and they changed it when the creator said he was sorry for all the lies and deception.
The only thing I can assume Mitchell is either your only of the Hackers/Crackers that are in the game or you work with the company either PR or personally.
Why are you defending this game? “the absurd number of people dissing the game probably haven’t even played it”? 800,000 copies sold pal. Including one to me. And so far I have yet to hear any legitimate reviewer say a kind word about this POS.
I agree, to defend this practice is pure idiocy,
That’s fine.
But why would he defend his product, even as thousands of people point out inaccuracies and blatant lies on the WarZ product information. The micro-transactions are a complete JOKE. You spend actual money on items that you can lose entirely by a 3 second lag spike.
His reputation was hurt because he kept defending these things. He should’ve realized this game was a trainwreck long before it became a feature on Steam.
Dean didn’t make War Z.
This whole blog is about people thinking that he made Day Z, did you even bother to read it in its entirety?
Sorry I meant WarZ.
I find it odd also, it as if some people don’t even bother to read the actual article sometimes.
Still, if it is a genuine mistake on @The Janitor’s part then I’m okay with it, so long @The Janitor realizes it is wrong.
You are exactly the reason Dean Hall is pissed at Sergey Titov, and the makers of The War Z, because guess what Dean didn’t make the War Z, he made DayZ the actual quality product that was offered for free.
You do realize he didn’t make WarZ right? After all it was only the whole point of the article.
I have no care for any sort of zombie game, but this story sickens me. Dean’s reputation for something he worked so hard to build was ruined, and he was an honest developer. If this happened to Capcom or someone like that, I wouldn’t care much but here was an honest indie mod developer, who’s entirely free contribution to the community excited huge audiences and saw a large popularity spike in ARMA II, which I think he should be compensated for, if not for the profit at least give the man something to symbolically show your appreciation. ARMA has suffered from so many hits lately, from Day Z to the lockup of two of its main developers. A sad story, but I encourage Dean fighting back like this, and his statements are not unprofessional in my opinion, they have a strong basis to them and aren’t generated from thin air because of anger or envy, that would be unprofessional.
Me too, I’m not really a fan of zombie games either, but like you this story “sickens me”. I hope Dean Hall keeps countering this negativity and bring out the truth in the matter for people to see.
Good luck Dean Hall!
Trademark lawsuit?
It’s ultimately a mod, there isn’t much of a reason to sue anyone (such as WarZ).
Poor Dean…Having to have his magnum opus compared to this Shallow Knockoff made by the same dickheads as BIG RIGS. I guess their Idea is that if they can make a game THAT bad and be remembered for it, they can do it Again, and make just as big a shitstorm!
This is misinformation, Sergey Titov created the engine that ran Big Rigs but was never once a member of that design team or even in its pre-production. No one else on the team was ever on the Big Rigs team, so your comment makes no sense though the War Z quality was terrible.
It’s actually sad people are mistaking War Z as Dean’s creation. To many people are coming to quick assumptions and conclusions. Even without being into DayZ or War Z, zombies, or games in general, a minute (seriously) of research would tell you Dean Hall has nothing to do with War Z.
It is a real pity to be sure, that people on the sidelines like Dean Hall are negatively impacted by Hammerpoint Interactive’s awful attempt to rip-off DayZ. It was bad enough when it was just the gamers getting negatively impacted by this, now it’s indie developers who had nothing (directly anyway) to do with this.
Forgot to mention in my essays that competition is what makes the world go ’round baby! You take a good idea, and try to make it great. Battlefield came before CoD and WAM- two years later it’s number one. There’s a sidekick/underdog/competing game for almost anything! WarZ-Dayz BF3-CoD you get the point… I hope…
The difference is that Day Z is free, and War Z is not in the same genre, it’s just a brutal ripoff sold for a price, this has nothing to do with competition. Competition is when person X makes a great game, sells it and then person Y steps in and makes a better game and sells it.
DayZ standalone is going to be free? That’s great news, can’t wait to tell everyone.
THE WARZ IS A FUCKING SCAM! THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE WORD SCAM AND COMPETITION… jesus christ… >.< sooo fucking stubborn and close minded… DayZ, the MOD, is currently FAR MORE FINISHED than the WarZ so the only competition here is for the WarZ which is WORSE than DayZ but costs money. The only "features" that WarZ has and DayZ doesn't is Micro-Transactions, (OH BOY!!! HOW AWESOME) and Player made missions which you could just type into CHAT on DayZ… WarZ=SCAM, DayZ=MOD made by a dedicated few people that is being EXPLOITED by some asshole and his merry band of minions.
Amen Dean!