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TheAlphaRooster

Shipping half done games

74 posts in this topic

I've come to the realization that some of the next gen games like Killer Instinct and Forza aren't going to be shipped in their entirety, I am probably still going to buy them mind you, but I just wanted to hear what others think of this and how it might affect how we buy games in the future.

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Honestly, I believe that a game should be finished before it's shipped out and shipped out entirely. DLC is meant for things that are made after the game is done, and if the developers are very generous, then they would provide those as free updates. Leaving out part of a game when it's already finished, shipping the game out and then trying to make everyone else buy the rest of the game for an additional 10+ dollars is just pure greed. That kind of practice should be discouraged in it's entirety.

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Funny thing is, most people blame developers for this kind of stuff and it's really not them, it's the publishers. The trend of DLC and half finished games has grown huge, and I'm afraid it's only gonna get worse. Publishers found a way to make much more money out of a single game that they could before and apparently most of us are willing to pay for it. At the end of the day it's business, and if it makes them more money and no one is complaining (the sad truth is most people really don't care) they've struck gold.

 

To avoid buying half done titles, I mostly buy them some time after release, when they neatly bundle up all the content in one package and sell you everything for half the price. 

 

Not all games are like this ofcourse.

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I think Kirilenko brings up an interesting point, publishers Do have just as much if not more to do with this trend than the Devs most of the time, and this tendency to want more and more money past the point of purchase has had a lot to do with things like the XB1's infamous DRM scandal as of late, we tend to put the blame squarely on Microsoft and trust me, they still deserve their part of the blame, but it's not all their fault. Say you're a game publishing Co., you can make your bones on new releases and then see that game bought and sold a hundred more times without a penny to show for it other than some sparse DLC sales, or you can introduce DRM to your product therefore guarenteeing (?spelling) to make a small portion of every transaction that takes place with that title for the life of your disk. The best thing we can do in this circumstance I believe is just like AJ says, let your voice be heard, and fight it with your wallet! Letting them know that to us this is an unacceptable practice and if they want our money, they'll play OUR GAME, or we WON'T be playing Theirs.

FIGHT SOPA!!

TheAlphaRooster likes this

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Capcom is notorious for this practice, I remember Angry Joe's rant for Marvel vs Capcom 3. A friend of mine who loves Mega Man has voiced this very same debacle very clearly both at work and on Facebook. It is ridiculous and hopefully gamers can finally help put an end to it with our voices and our wallets.

Lion909 likes this

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I agree with the other fine gentlemen that ave posted here. These kind of bullshit practices need to stop! I hope that at some point, all of us gamers will finally start to do something about it ourselves. Maybe we one day stop purchasing these half-finished games? I really do think that some time in the future, we will vote with our wallets and by not buying half-finished products say that we want the full 60$ package when we buy the goddamn game!

PremeditatedGirl likes this

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No way that's gonna happen though, normal consumers don't really know what they're purchasing and don't really care. They don't watch internet reviews, they don't know about DLC, they just buy a new game they see on the shelf. Maybe if we start bitchind louder and we get a ton more people involved.. (it's how people got Bioware to fix the Mass Effect 3 ending after all, by yelling at them, myself included)

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No way that's gonna happen though, normal consumers don't really know what they're purchasing and don't really care. They don't watch internet reviews, they don't know about DLC, they just buy a new game they see on the shelf. Maybe if we start bitchind louder and we get a ton more people involved.. (it's how people got Bioware to fix the Mass Effect 3 ending after all, by yelling at them, myself included)

Well in that case, i say let the bitchin' commence!

ProPurpleTurkey likes this

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I made a statement on Youtube a few years back, and i have only broken it once or twice since then

I said, if a game has clearly had things removed from it to be released as Day 1 DLC then I would not buy it until it lowers in price

There have been a couple of exceptions to me sticking to this but generally I stand by that practice

Leo~

Burnout269 likes this

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I've come to the realization that some of the next gen games like Killer Instinct and Forza aren't going to be shipped in their entirety, I am probably still going to buy them mind you, but I just wanted to hear what others think of this and how it might affect how we buy games in the future.

 

Funny thing was before the late 90's games had to be complete or they just didn't work as patching wasn't readily available, once patching became mainstream the "ship now, patch later" mentality came in, now it's "ship now, complete it later and call it a DLC" lol, especially with Day 1 DLC (Joe's favorite).

 

In saying that games are huge compared to the mid 90's, so it seems like a bit of a trade off.... As for the future, its probably going to get worse...

TheAlphaRooster likes this

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Yeah, theres alot of shady practices in the gaming industry right now. I preordered Arkham Origins the day before release just because I love the other games in the series and it was nowhere finished and clearly hadnt been tested proberly before release. As a rule though I never pay full price for an unfinished game If I can find out about it before time, however sometimes there just arent any reviews coming out before release and then your either going to get scrrewed out of exclusive preorder material (Which is yet another thing that needs to change) or have to take a gamble on the game actually being finished and good.

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Makes me miss the cartridge days sometimes.

 

My biggest complaint about it all deals with the QC these new games receive and just how often they ship out with major bugs, absolutely requiring dlc patches in order to play correctly. And we the consumers are at their mercy when it comes to if/when they actually do "patch up" the bugs in games we've already purchased.

 

Granted its a small price to pay for all these awesome games we get to choose from these days but still, 60 bucks for a game with major issues on release can get irritating at times.

 

I remember Joe pointing out the issue of some game requiring a dlc payment to unlock it's hard mode...now that is the last straw in my book. GRRR!!!

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I've come to the realization that some of the next gen games like Killer Instinct and Forza aren't going to be shipped in their entirety, I am probably still going to buy them mind you, but I just wanted to hear what others think of this and how it might affect how we buy games in the future.

I feel that as long as they sell in that state, they will continue to make them like that. Personally, I'd prefer to pay full price for a game that has everything in one package, than pay a small, or no amount, and have the option of buying everything else for additional costs. I can see how some people may like this, I would just prefer to have the entire thing in one package. But I do believe that as long as money is being made on games like that, they will continue to build them in that fashion. It's just the nature of the business sadly.

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Part of the problem is that there aren't any laws preventing them from doing these things, mostly because laws haven't kept up with technology.

 

To compare, if a car was sold and major bugs/defects were then discovered after the fact, you can take it back and get your money back.  Can't do that with broken games though, you just have to wait for a patch.

 

Until there is a consequence for such tactics (either reduced sales or legal penalties), the games industry isn't going to stop doing this.

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Part of the problem is that there aren't any laws preventing them from doing these things, mostly because laws haven't kept up with technology.

 

To compare, if a car was sold and major bugs/defects were then discovered after the fact, you can take it back and get your money back. 

Actually I've seen the car argument in reverse, as in you buy a car and then you can feel free to buy additional stuff for it to pimp it out. It's a whole thing I would rather not get into, point is we should stick with games and stop comparing them to other media or whatever kinda product, because they are their own thing.

 

Honestly I would suggest beating the shit out of Geoff Keighley but the guy seems dead inside already, so living with what he has become is much worse than what any of us could do to him.

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Well DLC is a content that should be a sweetner to await the next instalment in the series or just to show what could've been. Or just to dick around. But right now 80% of DLC is either something that should be in the game in the first place or just something that helps you progress, a gun or two that are just OP i comparison with anything else. I don't think that I've ever been tempted to buy any of the DLC, sadly. There are so many good ideas that could be implemented in a DLC, borderlands (some) or Fallout New Vegas way but it seems the devs or publishers dont want that for whatever reason. They would rather take something from the game instead of thinking of something new which saddens me greatly. There are of course some devs doing the right thing, for example mentioned earlier Fallout New Vegas which had some amazing DLC or Witcher 2 that added a whole bunch of stuff for the Xbox360 realease and didnt even charge for it on the PC which is kinda awesome. But yeah, I don't think that the whole thing with DLC's is going in the right direction sadly :c

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My take on this:

 

Someone said that it is a trade-off due to the fact that games are bigger (and better? still debatable though) than they were in 90's, but I don't think this logic holds for more than two miles. Example: you go to a car dealer and buy a BMW from 2008. You start it up and drive off to, wherever it is that you are going. Then, you hit breaks, and guess what, they don't work. You smash into a tree. You come back to the car dealer and furiously say "WTF?!?""#!"!"!"#!. He says: "You know, cars in the 70' were much less environmentally friendly. So, you see, it's a trade off. Now, if you want breaks you should come back in a month, we'll have them ready to be built into your car by then." You can apply this logic on virtually any product, and you will have the same result. There is no "trade off" here. This is either lazy or incompetent devs, OR greedy or ruthless pubs.

 

Another point that was made in this thread, is that it's sadly the nature of business. That is, although true, a very, VERY lame excuse. Why? Because it is the same mob mentality that has corrupted every single human nation during every single period of the entire human history:

- "Yo, what are you doing raping that innocent girl? She's barely 16 and you're like 40! That's disgusting!"

- "What? I do this to morally break down the enemy of our boss. This is his cousin. Maybe after this he will reconsider that offer we made him earlier. In the end, it's just good business."

- "Ohh... Well, then... Carry on."

I find it appropriate here to quote a scene from Al Pacino's Dog Day Afternoon" (1975):

- "You'd like to kill me? Bet you would."

- "I wouldn't like to kill you. I will if I have to."

- "It's your job right? You know the guy who kills me... I hope he does it because he hates my guts, not cause it's his job."

I find this true to myself aswell. If I pay 60$ for a half-finished game (if not UNfinished game cough* Aliens: Colonial Marines* cough), and I KNOW that the studio put the game out KNOWING that it's going to be a failure and only wanted to use it as a simple fast-money-grabbing tool, then I would (even if this sounds strange) feel somewhat better if I know that the people laughing at me behind my back f*cking hate me and want to erase me from the face of the Earth, or at least personally make my life as miserable as possible. Not because "it's good business".

 

The argument that I think holds best (though not perfectly) in this regard is one where it says that the laws are not up-to-date enough. This is true. However, I'm afraid they never will be. This is because games are not only technology, but also art. It's really the same reason why movies have existed for over 100 years and we still don't have a law that gets us our money back after seeing a movie with unrealistic CGI effects and bad soundtrack. The problem at the core here is that, as long as games are considered to be art, any kind of feature that can be put under technological scrutiny can be moved by developers to the "art" side of the argument:

- "Remember that glitch where a monster flew up in the air and then landed behind you and insta-killed you? Yea, well that's the way we do art, b*tch."

And that is the one argument from which you will never get away, no matter how much the technology progresses, no matter how many times the laws and rules are changed, you will never be able to get away from the fact that any developer can declare any glitch, lack of content, easter egg (even if those are sometimes the good parts), unfixed bugs as "art". Same goes for any DLC, patch, and whatever else future devs can think of.

 

Regards

Bogdan

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The biggest problem as of late is actually people releasing broken games and fixing them later, e.g Batman Origins, Rome 2, Battlefield 4's severs and many other big games this year.

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Every developer nowadays is just rushing to get some of that christmas cash, so they release unfinished games to make a quick buck as of this gen of gaming... I can't believe how far its gone, from expansions & dlcs that had actual *new* content to patches that you actually need to pay for. I'm honestly expecting developers to charge for endings in the future.

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Makes me miss the NES to PS2 generation, there was no such thing as "DLC" or "Update" the games were completed and sent out, good times.

nevermind27 likes this

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My biggest complaint about it all deals with the QC these new games receive and just how often they ship out with major bugs, absolutely requiring dlc patches in order to play correctly. And we the consumers are at their mercy when it comes to if/when they actually do "patch up" the bugs in games we've already purchased.

 

This, it seems like lately a lot of triple A titles have been released with some major bugs / problems. If they want to 'ship half done games' then at least make sure that the half you ship is working without any big issues.

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Ive made a personal ban on "pre ordering" any AAA title and moving tha money to indi developers who make early release games and engage with there fan base who live and breathe the game there making. C&C4, and rome 2 destroyed my faith in big companies and titles i loved.

Also yeah DLC thats on the disk but released later.. theres just no words for that..

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I remember when I first got Dead Island, I came across a game breaking glitch that killed my progress. At the time, my wireless set-up wasn't reliable enough to download the giant day one patch so I just quit playing rather then start over.

Since then I've seen dozens of games with Day One patches that make actually starting a new game a dull hassle where you wait around for patches to download and install. If I hadn't gotten more reliable wireless, how many more games would I have quit because of major glitches that they decided to deal with after they shipped the damn game?

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I remember Mass Effect 3's day one DLC, what a joke that was from BiowarEA. I know Capcom is somewhat notorious for their rehashes and re-releases, aswell as their contreversial DLC...I don't like supporting companies that do this.

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^^ capcoms games are all but banned from my computer for the foreseeable for those very reasons :(

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