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13 posts in this topic

Now as much as a Battlefield fan that I am, I feel that Battlefield 4 has had many bugs and issues since launch. Some have gotten fixed but I want to know if anybody thinks that Battlefield 4 cannot recover from the buggy state. I personally like the game and have a great time playing because I like the way the game feels and the massive scale battles are fun. But some people are not satisfied with the the state of the game. And does anybody know when Second Assault comes out.

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i do believe it can eventually if EA/DICE put there full efforts to it, they need to get away from cloud which is running some aspects of the game through the internet and not the physical game which is a problem.  as of second assault, it is out on Xbox One but i only got into a server a few times because the DLC don't work correctly because the servers.  and EA/DICE said the DLC's are on stand by and will not be out tell the game is completely fixed. 

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Maybe now that the original Dice team that worked on it is back from there lawfuly required yearly vacation we might see more improvements to the game. However there is still the fact Dice and EA owe us for the shitty launch and start with putting in the leveloution for the china rising DLC oh and yeab for those of you who havent heard the China Rising DLC was going to have leveloution however it was either cut or not activated well nows there chance to put it in. Overall Dice is going to have to work hard to get BF4 up to snuff and on par with BF3.

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Can it recover?
Depends on your point of view.
I am playing Battlefield since 1942 (thats the one from 2002, not 1943 from 2009 :) ) In my opinion, the Battlefield franchise started to go south when EA set the goal to "KILL CALL OF DUTY!" in Battlefield 3.
BF3/4 today - totally different kind of game that 1942/2/2142 - because DICEA re-targeted the franchise to a completely different audience. An audience that never touched the original games because they were (and I quote friends/coworkers here!) "too slow, too big, too complex, could not make enough kills per minute, not enough unlocks, etc.".

"KILL CALL OF DUTY!" - Thats something I'd like to see the Battlefield franchise recover from.......

And it would be so simple! Because DICEA already had established the "Bad Company" franchise for the exact same audience! So all they have to do is continue to release "Bad Company" games which are true to it's core and it's fans - and do the same with the "Battlefield" franchise. Make it true to its core (1942/2/2142) and the fans of these original titles!
 

Then DICEA would not have only one audience of buyers, they would have TWO!

And the "Battlefield" fans don't care for an SP, they just want an MP - this means production costs reduced by more than 50%! (yes SPs really cost that much to develop - even just the 5 hours long.)
 
But now back to state Battlefield 4 is in.

If we ignore the "KILL CALL OF DUTY!" issue for a moment - which was also the reason for the rushed release of BF3/4 - , and just look at BF4 like some first person shooter. What issues do we see?
 
Hit registration / Netcode
What you see, is not what is happening. Thats how to describe Battlefield 4's netcode.

For unknown reasons DICE thinks that bullet simulation running it 30 Hz (30 times per second) and client<->server update rates at 10Hz (10 times per second) would be "enough". Well it was barely enough for the 360 and PS3 because they run at hardcoded 30frames per second. But neither PC, not next gen does.
Next gen runs at 60 FPS and on PC you have 120Hz Monitors become more and more common. So there you see the issue of the way too long update intervals of 30Hz and 10Hz show it's ugly head.
So we suffer from bullets that fly around the corner, dieing 100->0 health from one round/impact even though the other player fired 16 rounds at us. We get shot by people who we still see climb up a ladder while he on his screen already exited it (10Hz update rate).
Yet DICE talks about competitive gaming! :blink:
Now, this is old news. Because since Bad Company 2 we are complaining about this issue. In BF3 it got even worse,.....
So DICE had many, many years time to take care of it. What did they do? They decided it is better to place even more load on the system in form of Levolution and networked water simulation....... because it makes better trailers..... (get "more bang for the buck" as a DICE employee said on reddit recently)
 
The randomness
In a multiplayer game, you would expect that skill matters. So if you are a higher skilled player than an other, you win. Well not in Battlefield 4 because there you have a HUGE amount of randomness intentionally designed into the game which does just one thing - makes skill unimportant in many situations.
Examples:

  • First shot random deviation on an RPG that makes you miss tanks by 2+ meters.
  • whiteout on operation locker - where you don't see anything while the player who fires at you has clear sight (the weather effect is not in sync with yours)
  • suppression - makes your accuracy go to hell. so even if you have better aim, the game gives you a random punish, just because someone with an LMG is firing spraying at you

the so called "noob crutches"
This is similar to the randomness. BF3 had a lot of features inbuilt that made taking down vehicles a "point and click" procedure.
We did hope that BF4 would go back to the old days of Battlefield games, where taking out vehicles requires skill and teamwork.
But instead we have now more weapons that can LOCK ON on their own and fire around a corner, as well as nearly every WIRE GUIDED weapon system be able to *LOCK ON* to painted targets. We also have Active Radar Missiles which - lets be serious - do not require any skill at all to use. Its *click* and *kill*

Then there is the wallhacklike 3d spotting and the constant VO shouting of my soldier that reveals my position.....

Todays games hold the players hand WAY too much.

What needs to be done to BF4?
Quite obviously it will not happen that BF4 is redesigned to be more like the old games (1942/2/2142) again - and I doubt that any following Battlefield game will ever be.
So what can be done to at least make BF4 an enjoyable FPS?

  •  
  • increase bullet simulation and client<->server update rates! these have to be at least 60Hz! With the option to have the server run at even higher rates for competitive matches/tournaments (which the GSP can charge extra)
  • get rid of (most of ) the randomness which ends up creating unfair situations
  • get rid of (most of) the so called noob crutches and make skill matter more again!
     

I highly recommend that you watch this video and the links inside the video. This really explains very well what is going wrong inside of Battlefield 4 and what needs to be fixed to make it an enjoyable FPS.

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I haven't had any issues for about a month now. I feel like the people who are still having issues are becoming a very loud minority. So yeah, I think it'll recover. I think it already has started to, sort of.

 

The only issue I have right now is that we have no idea when SA is coming. It's becoming almost offensive now. It's out on one console so it's safe to assume that it's finished with development but for some reason it just won't come to the rest of us, and they won't tell us anything about when the hell it's coming. Like they're keeping it a secret so they can surprise us or something? who knows. 

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Kind of makes you wonder how Battlefront's going to be.

 

Also, the marketing for Battlefield 4 made it sound like the Frostbite Engine is new. I personally thought it was a new engine for Dice's games starting from BF4.

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It is 100% better now than at launch. I love it!

Yeah I like it a lot and I love it as well and yes there are issues such as the netcode and stuff need to be fixed. But I think it will recover.

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i do believe it can eventually if EA/DICE put there full efforts to it, they need to get away from cloud which is running some aspects of the game through the internet and not the physical game which is a problem.  as of second assault, it is out on Xbox One but i only got into a server a few times because the DLC don't work correctly because the servers.  and EA/DICE said the DLC's are on stand by and will not be out tell the game is completely fixed. 

Yes but development is done for Second Assualt so they just need to port it.

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Can it recover?

Depends on your point of view.

I am playing Battlefield since 1942 (thats the one from 2002, not 1943 from 2009 :) ) In my opinion, the Battlefield franchise started to go south when EA set the goal to "KILL CALL OF DUTY!" in Battlefield 3.

BF3/4 today - totally different kind of game that 1942/2/2142 - because DICEA re-targeted the franchise to a completely different audience. An audience that never touched the original games because they were (and I quote friends/coworkers here!) "too slow, too big, too complex, could not make enough kills per minute, not enough unlocks, etc.".

"KILL CALL OF DUTY!" - Thats something I'd like to see the Battlefield franchise recover from.......

And it would be so simple! Because DICEA already had established the "Bad Company" franchise for the exact same audience! So all they have to do is continue to release "Bad Company" games which are true to it's core and it's fans - and do the same with the "Battlefield" franchise. Make it true to its core (1942/2/2142) and the fans of these original titles!

 

Then DICEA would not have only one audience of buyers, they would have TWO!

And the "Battlefield" fans don't care for an SP, they just want an MP - this means production costs reduced by more than 50%! (yes SPs really cost that much to develop - even just the 5 hours long.)

 

But now back to state Battlefield 4 is in.

If we ignore the "KILL CALL OF DUTY!" issue for a moment - which was also the reason for the rushed release of BF3/4 - , and just look at BF4 like some first person shooter. What issues do we see?

 

Hit registration / Netcode

What you see, is not what is happening. Thats how to describe Battlefield 4's netcode.

For unknown reasons DICE thinks that bullet simulation running it 30 Hz (30 times per second) and client<->server update rates at 10Hz (10 times per second) would be "enough". Well it was barely enough for the 360 and PS3 because they run at hardcoded 30frames per second. But neither PC, not next gen does.

Next gen runs at 60 FPS and on PC you have 120Hz Monitors become more and more common. So there you see the issue of the way too long update intervals of 30Hz and 10Hz show it's ugly head.

So we suffer from bullets that fly around the corner, dieing 100->0 health from one round/impact even though the other player fired 16 rounds at us. We get shot by people who we still see climb up a ladder while he on his screen already exited it (10Hz update rate).

Yet DICE talks about competitive gaming! :blink:

Now, this is old news. Because since Bad Company 2 we are complaining about this issue. In BF3 it got even worse,.....

So DICE had many, many years time to take care of it. What did they do? They decided it is better to place even more load on the system in form of Levolution and networked water simulation....... because it makes better trailers..... (get "more bang for the buck" as a DICE employee said on reddit recently)

 

The randomness

In a multiplayer game, you would expect that skill matters. So if you are a higher skilled player than an other, you win. Well not in Battlefield 4 because there you have a HUGE amount of randomness intentionally designed into the game which does just one thing - makes skill unimportant in many situations.

Examples:

  • First shot random deviation on an RPG that makes you miss tanks by 2+ meters.
  • whiteout on operation locker - where you don't see anything while the player who fires at you has clear sight (the weather effect is not in sync with yours)
  • suppression - makes your accuracy go to hell. so even if you have better aim, the game gives you a random punish, just because someone with an LMG is firing spraying at you

the so called "noob crutches"

This is similar to the randomness. BF3 had a lot of features inbuilt that made taking down vehicles a "point and click" procedure.

We did hope that BF4 would go back to the old days of Battlefield games, where taking out vehicles requires skill and teamwork.

But instead we have now more weapons that can LOCK ON on their own and fire around a corner, as well as nearly every WIRE GUIDED weapon system be able to *LOCK ON* to painted targets. We also have Active Radar Missiles which - lets be serious - do not require any skill at all to use. Its *click* and *kill*

Then there is the wallhacklike 3d spotting and the constant VO shouting of my soldier that reveals my position.....

Todays games hold the players hand WAY too much.

What needs to be done to BF4?

Quite obviously it will not happen that BF4 is redesigned to be more like the old games (1942/2/2142) again - and I doubt that any following Battlefield game will ever be.

So what can be done to at least make BF4 an enjoyable FPS?

  •  
  • increase bullet simulation and client<->server update rates! these have to be at least 60Hz! With the option to have the server run at even higher rates for competitive matches/tournaments (which the GSP can charge extra)
  • get rid of (most of ) the randomness which ends up creating unfair situations
  • get rid of (most of) the so called noob crutches and make skill matter more again!

     

I highly recommend that you watch this video and the links inside the video. This really explains very well what is going wrong inside of Battlefield 4 and what needs to be fixed to make it an enjoyable FPS.

I agree that we need to take away the randomness. But I think that these games are more casual then previous titles.

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BF4 needs a lot of work. It's still a good game and I find every experience in different servers very unique. If they fix the netcode and actually support the competitive scene, the BF4 scene could very well flourish. Until then, I find the experience to be lackluster compared to every previous installment of the series. BF4 has decent maps and is astounding graphically, especially if you turn up the resolution scale and supersampling but the actual gameplay mechanics leave a lot to be desired.

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Can it recover?

Depends on your point of view.

I am playing Battlefield since 1942 (thats the one from 2002, not 1943 from 2009 :) ) In my opinion, the Battlefield franchise started to go south when EA set the goal to "KILL CALL OF DUTY!" in Battlefield 3.

BF3/4 today - totally different kind of game that 1942/2/2142 - because DICEA re-targeted the franchise to a completely different audience. An audience that never touched the original games because they were (and I quote friends/coworkers here!) "too slow, too big, too complex, could not make enough kills per minute, not enough unlocks, etc.".

"KILL CALL OF DUTY!" - Thats something I'd like to see the Battlefield franchise recover from.......

And it would be so simple! Because DICEA already had established the "Bad Company" franchise for the exact same audience! So all they have to do is continue to release "Bad Company" games which are true to it's core and it's fans - and do the same with the "Battlefield" franchise. Make it true to its core (1942/2/2142) and the fans of these original titles!

 

 

Could you go into detail about its "totally different"?

 

Hit registration / Netcode

What you see, is not what is happening. Thats how to describe Battlefield 4's netcode.

For unknown reasons DICE thinks that bullet simulation running it 30 Hz (30 times per second) and client<->server update rates at 10Hz (10 times per second) would be "enough". Well it was barely enough for the 360 and PS3 because they run at hardcoded 30frames per second. But neither PC, not next gen does.

Next gen runs at 60 FPS and on PC you have 120Hz Monitors become more and more common. So there you see the issue of the way too long update intervals of 30Hz and 10Hz show it's ugly head.

So we suffer from bullets that fly around the corner, dieing 100->0 health from one round/impact even though the other player fired 16 rounds at us. We get shot by people who we still see climb up a ladder while he on his screen already exited it (10Hz update rate).

Yet DICE talks about competitive gaming! :blink:

Now, this is old news. Because since Bad Company 2 we are complaining about this issue. In BF3 it got even worse,.....

So DICE had many, many years time to take care of it. What did they do? They decided it is better to place even more load on the system in form of Levolution and networked water simulation....... because it makes better trailers..... (get "more bang for the buck" as a DICE employee said on reddit recently)

 

 

I don't have a issue with the netcode personally but I think that might be from my many years of games on the source engine.

 

The randomness

In a multiplayer game, you would expect that skill matters. So if you are a higher skilled player than an other, you win. Well not in Battlefield 4 because there you have a HUGE amount of randomness intentionally designed into the game which does just one thing - makes skill unimportant in many situations.

Examples:

  • First shot random deviation on an RPG that makes you miss tanks by 2+ meters.
  • whiteout on operation locker - where you don't see anything while the player who fires at you has clear sight (the weather effect is not in sync with yours)
  • suppression - makes your accuracy go to hell. so even if you have better aim, the game gives you a random p
  • punish, just because someone with an LMG is firing spraying at you

 

 

The random deviation I really started to noticed when I started to mess around with DMRs and it is pretty terrible.

The whiteout is very annoying.

Suppression I like personally.

 

 

the so called "noob crutches"

This is similar to the randomness. BF3 had a lot of features inbuilt that made taking down vehicles a "point and click" procedure.

We did hope that BF4 would go back to the old days of Battlefield games, where taking out vehicles requires skill and teamwork.

But instead we have now more weapons that can LOCK ON on their own and fire around a corner, as well as nearly every WIRE GUIDED weapon system be able to *LOCK ON* to painted targets. We also have Active Radar Missiles which - lets be serious - do not require any skill at all to use. Its *click* and *kill*

 

Still takes teamwork a vehicle with a pocket medic (scout heli oh yes) needs teamwork to tak out

But this argument I can see being viewed by the other side as "elitism" also. But the wire weapons getting a lock on is completely dumb.

 

What needs to be done to BF4?

Quite obviously it will not happen that BF4 is redesigned to be more like the old games (1942/2/2142) again - and I doubt that any following Battlefield game will ever be.

So what can be done to at least make BF4 an enjoyable FPS?

  •  
  • increase bullet simulation and client<->server update rates! these have to be at least 60Hz! With the option to have the server run at even higher rates for competitive matches/tournaments (which the GSP can charge extra)
  • get rid of (most of ) the randomness which ends up creating unfair situations
  • get rid of (most of) the so called noob crutches and make skill matter more again!

     

I highly recommend that you watch this video and the links inside the video. This really explains very well what is going wrong inside of Battlefield 4 and what needs to be fixed to make it an enjoyable FPS.

 

I'm behind the rates against the "crutches" that I hear in every game "AWP, autoshotty, backburner, DR, Thompson, shotgun, etc, etc" being crutches or OP.

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Note:

The only way to get rid of these ''Noob crutches'' is to implement a mechanic that sorts you into a team of your skill in a match of people with your skill (Like LoL) 

But, that is impossible. Seeing how you can pick the server that you want to play on.

All I can say about the ''Noob crutches'' issue is, blatantly said of course, Deal with it.

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