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Gronth

Why dont we have a good Warhammer Fantasy RPG yet?

18 posts in this topic

It just crossed my mind. Warhammer is one of the oldest, and strongest fantasy universe on market now. But the Games Workshop business tactics are worrying me a lot.

I love Warhammer fantasy pen&paper system, the battlegame is also great. But there are few pretty damn big advantages of them.
First these games can be VERY expensive. If someone is "inside" of this type of hobby knows it (lets wave to the Tabletop RPG thread people ;) o/). If you want to play it "legally" and nicely, you will spend alot of money, on books, books, also some books and more books. Also some figures which are just riddiculously expensive sometimes. Also, these type of games are pretty hard to get into (for a newcomer, or for teenagers nowadays). You need to get some books, read them, prepare yourself etc etc. Finally you need to find this time and place for playing. A lot of time. And often it can be delayed because for example GM is sick, or someone had to stay late in work. Its sad, but despite the fact that these are great games, and awesome way to spend time with (right) people, this is dying type of games, lets face it. It had its 5 minutes in history, but that is past. They wont get wiped out, but rather be something like vinyl discs. You get my point.


So in such situation, i cant find reason, why Games Workshop is so stubborn, and wont give/sell their license for FANTASY rpg system, or wont make a good one by itself, inside the company. It suprises me, that they keep buffing their WH40k license (which is great also, but thats a different setting, which is played in different ways) with games like Space Marine (mediocre), DoW (Great) DoW2(good)+ expansions. It seems lately, that for GW WHFantasy is just a small, abandoned child, in shadow if its "awesome" younger brother (Well, excluding Fire Warrior. But the idea itself was imo great, need remake).

I understand, that that WH Fantasy as video games was not so succesfull (Especially spectacular launch of Age of Reckoning, which was meant to compete with WoW, and failed), and rather mediocre (Mark of Chaos). But i still cant understand, why wont they progress. Look at D&D, Forgotten Realms, Star Wars etc etc. These are great universes which every known game type inside of them. Why WH Fantasy is so far behind them, still staying in the era that passed away?


What do you think about this people?

LoreMaster likes this

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I've been thinking the same thing for years.

 

Then again, I think the only developer that could possibly pull off Warhammer Fantasy well would be CD Projekt RED. Maybe Bethesda or Obsidian if they made it open world.

 

I don't think any other "big" company could pull it off. The only other thing would be to give it to a small indie studio and let them run with it. Wouldn't cost as much to create as a full AAA title and there are some fantastic small studios out there.

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well there are a few Warhammer games out there but they are pretty old.

- Hero Quest

- Warhammer: Shadow of the Horned Rat

- Warhammer Dark Omen

- Warhammer Battle March

 

but Maybe they push the 40K series because the Fantasy Warhammer is too similar to WoW.

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@Gomly

Thats right, Warhammer Fantasy offers unlimited diversity of game types. Hack'n Slash? Yup. RPG? Yup. "Thief type" hell yes. "Ships and Pirates"? You damn have it. Even indie adventure pont'n click game would be pretty easy to fit in.

@Beatmaster

I didnt mention those games for one simple reason. They were nice, but trying to play them today would be a pure masochism :P. Also, WH is not really similar to WoW (not mentioning its much older). Biggest difference is that there is no "good'n evil" factions like horde and alliance. Also, WH is much darker universe. More people in this universe dies because of plagues and famine, than in direct combat. 

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LoreMaster from the Tabletop RPG thread here :P I 100% agree with you, tabletopping IS pretty tough to get a group started (almost a month now trying to get a new one started). But once you get into it you can play for hours without realising and have endless fun. But yeah, video games are slowly but surely taking over the gaming industry. 

 

As to why there isn't a good WH Fantasy RPG, well for starters there are few companies doing RPGs nowadays (quality ones). Star Wars and the Forgotten Realms USED to have great games, but with the exception of Battlefront 3 I can't think of any good recent titles. The D&D license sealed itself in PC gaming history with games like Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment and Icewind Dale while Star Wars had the Jedi Knight series and the flight simulators. But that was ages ago... :(

 

Also I'm not sure about the WH Fantasy universe and whether it can make a good RPG setting. I know for one thing that the WH40K universe is ridiculous for a tabletop RPG, unless everyone's on the same side, because every race hates every other race's guts and you can't have a diverse group without breaking serious lore. 

 

But who knows, we might get a good guy developer that makes a good WH Fantasy RPG. I'd play that for sure!

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its not popular enough to get a good company to make it

that's my best guess

it would be pretty awesome if it happened

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its not popular enough to get a good company to make it

 

I would agree but Warhammer is absolutely massive worldwide.

 

Games Workshop are usually the problem. They are over protective of their IP and have the final say on anything that goes in the game.

 

And they very rarely allow anything to deviate from lore .... even though most lore is from third party sources in the Black Library novels.

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LoreMaster from the Tabletop RPG thread here :P I 100% agree with you, tabletopping IS pretty tough to get a group started (almost a month now trying to get a new one started). But once you get into it you can play for hours without realising and have endless fun. But yeah, video games are slowly but surely taking over the gaming industry. 

 

As to why there isn't a good WH Fantasy RPG, well for starters there are few companies doing RPGs nowadays (quality ones). Star Wars and the Forgotten Realms USED to have great games, but with the exception of Battlefront 3 I can't think of any good recent titles. The D&D license sealed itself in PC gaming history with games like Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment and Icewind Dale while Star Wars had the Jedi Knight series and the flight simulators. But that was ages ago... :(

 

Also I'm not sure about the WH Fantasy universe and whether it can make a good RPG setting. I know for one thing that the WH40K universe is ridiculous for a tabletop RPG, unless everyone's on the same side, because every race hates every other race's guts and you can't have a diverse group without breaking serious lore. 

 

But who knows, we might get a good guy developer that makes a good WH Fantasy RPG. I'd play that for sure!

You didn't like KOTOR? I like the concept of tabletop RPG's but I could never figure out how to play them properly, video games are infinitely easier to get into.

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@up "getting into" the game depends heavily on a game system. For example Warhammer is a pretty easy system =, that needs only one or 2 10k dices. Player can be succesfully introduced to lore while being already "in game" by a GM, or if one thinks he should, he can read a basic rulebook (1 evening should do) and there is everything the newcomer should know. On the other side are system like tabletop D&D which i personally hate, because there is more numbers and mathematics then gameplay and storytelling, to a point when a fight 5v2ghouls can take up to 45 minutes (we had such situations). Remember, every sytem is different, and even if one is based on the other, there would never be 2 same systems (for example in Neuroshima you must roll a dice, to choose you starting sickness. If for example you have allergy to UV and action will take place on US postapocalyptic deserts... you are fucked :P. But i like such things, it makes player more related to character, force him to think more :).

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How do you play Warhammer illegally?
Getting the mental image of old mafia movies here..

 

Saying that playing the old Warhammer games is like being a masochist - You aught to be slapped for that.
They're still fun to play and absolutely nothing wrong with them. Now if I could only get Space Hulk 2 to work...

 

But in terms of actual Warhammer Fantasy games that actually do exist, there's the crappy online game that plays like the bastard child of WoW and DAoC.

LoreMaster likes this

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How do you play Warhammer illegally?

Getting the mental image of old mafia movies here..

 

Saying that playing the old Warhammer games is like being a masochist - You aught to be slapped for that.

They're still fun to play and absolutely nothing wrong with them. Now if I could only get Space Hulk 2 to work...

 

But in terms of actual Warhammer Fantasy games that actually do exist, there's the crappy online game that plays like the bastard child of WoW and DAoC.

By illegally he doesnt mean playing with bootlegged miniatures, what he means is that the cost of playing the game is extremely high. Rulebooks can be anywhere from 30$ to 50$ and some jackass companies like Wizards of the Coast make you buy THREE rulebooks to play D&D 4th Edition so that's 90$ for about 1100 pages of rules. Yes. 1100 pages. Not counting the stupid ass additional content they released which should be there in the first place.

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But in terms of actual Warhammer Fantasy games that actually do exist, there's the crappy online game that plays like the bastard child of WoW and DAoC.

No, there isn't ... servers have been shut down. It doesn't exist anymore.

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By illegally he doesnt mean playing with bootlegged miniatures, what he means is that the cost of playing the game is extremely high. Rulebooks can be anywhere from 30$ to 50$ and some jackass companies like Wizards of the Coast make you buy THREE rulebooks to play D&D 4th Edition so that's 90$ for about 1100 pages of rules. Yes. 1100 pages. Not counting the stupid ass additional content they released which should be there in the first place.

That really doesn't answer how you play it illegally at all, and yes, I do know that it's all expensive.

Why do you think I ask this?

 

And why do you bring in DnD into this?

DnD and Warhammer have different systems completely to my knowledge.

 

 

No, there isn't ... servers have been shut down. It doesn't exist anymore.

Oh, good riddance!

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That really doesn't answer how you play it illegally at all, and yes, I do know that it's all expensive.

Why do you think I ask this?

 

And why do you bring in DnD into this?

DnD and Warhammer have different systems completely to my knowledge.

Just wanted to give an example of how much it costs to be in the hobby. Wargames like WH have it even worse.  

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Techncially reprinting\downloading\copying book without buying it is illegal, at least if it isnt public domain (and it isnt) so thats what i mean. And as said 90$ bor BASIC rulebooks is a very high price, considering the fact, that in some time you will also need Bestiary, additional scenarios, expansion books etc. etc. Also in some countries GW figures can be very hard to get.

Well, trying to look at a game from 90s at a wide screen monitor, just hurts my eyes, and unless i dont want to play with magnifying glass, i cant adjust resolution to the state it looks decent. Besides, mechanics of those PC games just got outdated, there are better games out there now. But the games were great in their times.

And DnD was brought up as a comparison, because its a system from same genre, that went totally different way with the progress, and Games Workshop still want to believe, that progress is bad (at least it seems so in the WH Fantasy situation. Oh yea, they updated it to Ed 3, which now needs an entire damn table to unbox the one set that player buys. )

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 It seems lately, that for GW WHFantasy is just a small, abandoned child, in shadow if its "awesome" younger brother (Well, excluding Fire Warrior. But the idea itself was imo great, need remake).

 

Fire Warrior was a blast to play online, especially if you were in a clan. Just about every weapon other than the autogun you start with could kill a person in one or two shots making for a very tense atmosphere. You never knew when you were going to die or when some moron would wander into your sights and you could blow them the fuck away.

 

And they very rarely allow anything to deviate from lore .... even though most lore is from third party sources in the Black Library novels.

 

Funny considering some of those books contain fluff writing so bad it makes Matt Ward's shit seem legit...*coughOutcastDeadcough*....

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LoL this is stupid, plain and simple. GW is not pushin any games - the aren't the ones developing or publishing the games. It's the studios that are deciding wether or not they think they can make a game that will be good enought to sell well to pay off the licence and development costs. Let me remind you all that SEGA is the company that has the licence for BOTH Warhammer franchises - it was even said they gave the WHFB licence to Creative Assembly for the fabled Warhammer total war.

There is allready a P&P RPG system set in WHFB, and they cant make PC or console games becouse they arent a software developer. They are not stubborn about their licence becouse they allready licenced WarhammerFB to Sega 1 year ago.

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There is no "illegal" way playing of the tabletop strategy. you can play the game with a pdf on your phone and corks and bottle caps instead of figures and it still won't be illegal. You will need actual figures to play in any sort of events (official or not), but playing with bollecaps and corks amongst friends is not illegal.

As long as as figures look legit, you can play with them (ie bootlegs) on most tournaments.

 

@gomly: Black Library is first party nod third party. Black Library is their publishing branch for anything that aren't Rulebooks in phisical form (digital rulebooks are all published by Black Library).

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