• Welcome to the Angry Joe Show Army!

    Join our community of gamers passionate about our community and our hobby! Whether it's playing, discussing, or watching games, regardless of platform, genre, or location, we have a place for you, always!

  • PS4 Forum

    The AJSA Playstation 4 Division: Game Nights and More!

    The AJSA is on Playstation 4! Join us for weekly Game Nights with a selection of the best games the PS4 has to offer!

  • XBO Forum

    The AJSA Xbox One Division: We Got You Covered!

    The AJSA Xbox One Division is ready to connect with you on XBox Live with a ton of events for the best Xbox games!

  • News Archive

    The Best News from the Best Sites, Every Week.

    The AJSA News Collection Team is hard at work condensing a week's worth of news into one giant-sze digest for you to chew on and discuss! Links to source articles are always provided!

  • More Info

    The AJSA Expeditionary Force: Deploying to Play the Best PC Games!

    The elite vanguard of the AJSA, the Expeditionary Force (EF) chooses a new PC game every week! Join us for weekly events and help decide if the game has a future in the AJSA.

  • The Team

    Streaming Now: The AJSA Stream Team

    Joe can't stream every game, but our talented AJSA Stream Team covers a wide variety of games and personalities! Check them out, and show them some AJSA Love!

  • The Tube

    The AJSA Community YouTube Channel

    Featuring news, gameplay clips, and more from the community! The Community is a chance to showcase the best moments in AJSA Gaming!

ragamadu

A gentle rebuttal to the MGSV: Ground Zeroes review

36 posts in this topic

 Hi,

 

     I thought it was clear that this was going to be a demo. I, a long-time MGS fan, went to the store knowing this, and payed $30.00 for it. If anyone was misinformed into thinking that it was a full game, I feel bad for you :/ (maybe you can still recoup some losses at Gamestop or somewhere). In my experience, gamers who have never experienced an MGS title  will, much like AngryJoe, skip the amazing pre-mission audio cassette tapes on the main menu. They are delivered audio-book style and amount to about an hour and a half of listening. The main attraction here is Paz's stuff. It is by no means a full length novel, but good lord is it good (and it will amount to a full length audio book in Phantom Pain if it continues this trend). I implore you to go back, sit back, relax, listen to the cassettes, and then play. If this does not at least change your impression of the value of Ground Zeroes, or if this does not sound appealing to you at all, then MGS may not be for you, and here's why:

 

     Those audio tapes greatly intensify the gameplay and give you a lot of detail into all of the characters you will be interacting with. This kind of story driven gameplay is what MGS excels at, and now we have a new outlet of much needed character development. Previous MGS games delivered most of the story and character development through lengthy cutscenes accompanied by codec conversation. Many of the codec conversations were completely optional, and only served to flesh out the characters a bit more. AngryJoe mentioned disappointment that he didn't get to experience those cool codec moments, but I think the cassette tapes aim to replace that feeling, and boy do they hit the mark so far. This alone made me feel like it had earned a good bit of value towards the price tag, keeping in mind that this is all before I hit the "start mission" button (I have no doubt that this is the intended way to start things off but, like the aforementioned extra codec conversations, it is completely optional).

 

     I'm not a business person by any stretch of the imagination and by no means do I believe that Kojima is a "can do no wrong" dev, but I think we might be overreacting about the price tag just a little bit. Maybe it costs 3x more to create a current gen demo than it did to create previous demos, so the price has to go up. Perhaps Kojima only intended for core MGS fans to buy this demo and his marketing people compensated for the low intended sales numbers. Let's not gloss over the fact that many games ask for $80 or more for limited editions and collectors' editions containing figures, posters, artbooks, etc. Think of Ground Zeroes as something like that. I payed $80 total for MGSV ($30 for Ground Zeroes plus $60 when I buy Phantom Pain). There will likely also be limited/collectors' editions of Phantom Pains with extra stuff, but that kind of thing doesn't appeal to me much, so I won't buy it. Do we see collectors' editions as unacceptable attempts to gouge our pockets? Some might, but I don't for the sole reason that it is completely optional. I don't have to spend that extra money to get my game. I think what I want you to take away from this is that this demo was made for ME and people LIKE me! QUIT BUYING MY STUFF! Maybe watch a few twitch videos and then maybe buy Phantom Pains when it comes out. 

:D

DestinyDecade and LoreMaster like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Props to this guy for having the massive balls to defend the game. 

 

30$ is still way too much though. Just think about it. If the next gen cost is really that high then why the hell is Phantom Pain 60$ and not 6000$ as Kojima said that it would be 200x bigger than Ground Zeroes. The answer is simple: they're over charging for the product on a level I never thought possible.

 

 I think what I want you to take away from this is that this demo was made for ME and people LIKE me!

What....did I....just read.....

 

The reason why it's OK to get Collectors' Edition for games and not GZ is because GZ is way, way, way too overpriced. ITS NOT EVEN DLC QUALITY!!! There are literally 'cash-grabbing' DLCs out there that have FARR more content than GZ! Collectors' Edition for games are indeed up to the consumer whether or not they want to fork the extra cash for some cool collectible. But GZ isn't some unique collectible that you take pride in! 

 

But at the end of the day of course it's your own damn money and you can spend it anyway you like BUT the thing is other devs will start unzipping their pants and wanking off when they see that GZ gets good sales. Then in the future, they will be fucking the consumers instead of themselves. 

TheAux and ragamadu like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

     I thought it was clear that this was going to be a demo. I, a long-time MGS fan, went to the store knowing this, and payed $30.00 for it. If anyone was misinformed into thinking that it was a full game,

 

We all knew it was going to be a demo.

 

What people aren't happy with is them CHARGING for that demo. For what it is, it's far too overpriced. It should have been included in Phantom Pain at the start or released for £5.

 

The other thing is if this becomes the "norm" and takes off. Where does it end?

 

When we pay £30 - £40 per 2 hours of a game?

ragamadu and TheAux like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This game is not a demo, it is an advertisement.

 

No matter how good the game actually is, I refuse to pay 30 shillings for a digital billboard.

 

Thank God for RedBox.

Twitch 223 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So basically... what makes the game worth its price tag is the little things that only the biggest fans will appreciate? Sorry, but that's just a lame excuse from Kojima so he can justify the price tag.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So basically... what makes the game worth its price tag is the little things that only the biggest fans will appreciate? Sorry, but that's just a lame excuse from Kojima so he can justify the price tag.

I agree. From a MGS fan like me, I wouldn't pay $30 for this. Jim Sterling (another MGS fan) said that this game is more of an advertisement than a game. AND HE'S RIGHT!

 

It is short, and the story doesn't even pick up until the end. THIS GAME EVEN ENDS WITH A PHANTOM PAIN ADVERTISEMENT!

 

This is a despicable way of cash grabbing, and I do not hope this becomes the norm.

If overpriced advertisements disguised as games is the future, then f@ck that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To suggest that this demo costs so much that they needed to price it at 50% of a full game is simply ludicrous. This demo probably costs very little. They are using mostly existing assets. Just for comparison, Blood Dragon is around 6-8 hrs and only $15. It contained a complete, standalone story along with plenty of side contents.

DemonsColt, Gone too and TheAux like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To suggest that this demo costs so much that they needed to price it at 50% of a full game is simply ludicrous. This demo probably costs very little. They are using mostly existing assets. Just for comparison, Blood Dragon is around 6-8 hrs and only $15. It contained a complete, standalone story along with plenty of side contents.

Sh!t, I need to get Blood Dragon. Maybe on PC this time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its because of the people who defend this kinda crap that they even tried it in the first place!  The only reason for this to not just be the beginning of the full game is to grab more cash and that is it.  And there is never an excuse for that.

 

Id rather wait until the full game comes out then this will drop to the price it should have been in the first place.  War thunder i can play for free will keep me plenty busy until then.

Riflebird likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok I am a MGS fan and I love the hell out of Peace Walker. No one is saying Ground Zeros is a horrible game like Joe said its a great game we loved every second of it but the story to it is so short the joy is quickly gone and $30 for a demo is just asking too much. The side missions and such are padding and I can agree there is something joe missed and that was the Back story party in the menu which is a recounting of MGS Peace Walker but the rest is padding. Anyone who got this game is going to get Phantom pain we just fee cheated for a $30 tease job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, now that I've read some of these, you could call it more of an advertisement and 30USD is definitely pushing it, but to respond to a few of you in no particular order: I believe there is a legal limit of how much a game can cost ($60 in the US). remember that there used to be N64 games that went for over 100USD. That changed because it was too expensive which, in my opinion, attests to the fact that this sort of thing can't possibly become the norm because it's controlled by our wallets. Nothing happens unless enough people want it to. Being a Fighting game fan as well, I have been exposed to this issue time and again, the most recent being Ultra SF4 (and the rest of the SF$$$ series). I believe this is the 4th (?) iteration that will be released at full price (I think there'll be a digital upgrade version, but obviously that won't be cross platform). These updates usually include new characters and some rebalancing. This seems to be dying down a little finally, my point being that we are paying more for less each time, and it's gotten to where only the most dedicated fans are gonna buy the new stuff. eventually we will get what we want (coughs in KI's general direction) because, believe  it or not, there tend to be enough people that want this sort of thing that it might linger about longer than you think is logical. Looking back, I don't see much of a rap sheet for Konami, so maybe we should bite a little less hard at this mistake. I tend to give the benefit of the doubt, but even I have my limits (Capcom), but I'm not so sure this is it. 

 

In summary: blah blah blah backpedal, blah blah blah stand by my argument, blah blah blah something about Capcom. :3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, SF4 is far better value than this demo. The initial version was released at full price (duh), Super version is non-DLC upgrade but it offered 10 new characters (more than 50% increase from original), new moves for existing characters, extra modes and shit, and at a discount price ($40). AE can be bought as standalone or DLC. As a $15 DLC it's basically $3.75 a character. Ultra is the same deal but with 5 characters, new mechanics, and edition select. 

Gone too and ragamadu like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just because they said it was a demo before it was released, doesn't justify how they're charging people for it. As Joe said, it creates a dangerous precedent for other games.

 

But like Joe said, it's not the first time that this has happened. Apart from that Dead Rising 2 thing, I remember something like Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, but not being a fan of racing simulators, I can't speak to the content of that thing. I don't even remember how much they were charging for Prologue when it first came out.

ragamadu likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah but Ultra sf4 is mostly copy and paste so it should be free ;p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah but Ultra sf4 is mostly copy and paste so it should be free ;p

Or at least cost low enough that you're practically only paying for the additional characters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or at least cost low enough that you're practically only paying for the additional characters.

I already have its when i bought sfxt.  But then there is the Cammy clone not sure that will be worth the price though.  Back on topic though like Joe said in the review in the past Konami have released demo's as long as this with other games (MGS2 demo with zone of the enders)  so there is no excuse not to do it now.

ragamadu likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Grats on paying $30 for a demo and being happy about it, the rest of us are worried this becomes a trend. If they released a game like that in any series I love I'd be infinitely pissed off and would skip it entirely, this hypothetical game would have been made to capitalize on fans like me but still that doesn't at all make it right and surely it's not a labour of love with my entertainment in mind. This is clearly just hyping the main game and tech demoing their new engine while still making massive profits.


This is how the goddamn fucking $60 pricing started... Some Call of Duty started charging 60 on the PC and then every release that followed was 60 instead of the old 50 for no good reason other than people bought Activision's shit.

LaserBunny, DemonsColt and Gone like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this will become the norm in the near future. We're already buying games at full price, then the "season pass" to get the rest of the game that should be included with the original purchase. Most of the downloadable content is short and pointless like the downloadable content released for Bioshock Infinite so far. Yes, we are not being forced to buy this "extra stuff", but I can't help but feel cheated after pre-ordering a game a year out, knowing people will enjoy it the developers charge another 20 bucks for content that hopefully lives up to my expectations. If it doesn't well tough shit huh? People can bring up the issue of buying used games but I think that that will be totally gone in another 10 years, just look at what Microsoft attempted to do this time around and the only reason they reversed it all was because Sony wouldn't play ball with them this time around.

 

I can see this happening a lot with demos after this demo release. Sure it was great and sure I'm going to buy the full game. But I was going to buy the game anyway, and I can expect now to pay an additional 20 dollars for extra content that I'm hoping will be good on top of that. My question is where do people draw the line, and is there any ethics involved in the video game business anymore? It appears not as the reasoning behind this game is developers think buyers are ignorant, or they think kids will convince their parents to buy this for them because its half the price of a regular game, then they can turn around and charge full price for the actual game when it does come out.

 

Thank God for Redbox though!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, now that I've read some of these, you could call it more of an advertisement and 30USD is definitely pushing it, but to respond to a few of you in no particular order: I believe there is a legal limit of how much a game can cost ($60 in the US). remember that there used to be N64 games that went for over 100USD. That changed because it was too expensive which, in my opinion, attests to the fact that this sort of thing can't possibly become the norm because it's controlled by our wallets. Nothing happens unless enough people want it to. Being a Fighting game fan as well, I have been exposed to this issue time and again, the most recent being Ultra SF4 (and the rest of the SF$$$ series). I believe this is the 4th (?) iteration that will be released at full price (I think there'll be a digital upgrade version, but obviously that won't be cross platform). These updates usually include new characters and some rebalancing. This seems to be dying down a little finally, my point being that we are paying more for less each time, and it's gotten to where only the most dedicated fans are gonna buy the new stuff. eventually we will get what we want (coughs in KI's general direction) because, believe  it or not, there tend to be enough people that want this sort of thing that it might linger about longer than you think is logical. Looking back, I don't see much of a rap sheet for Konami, so maybe we should bite a little less hard at this mistake. I tend to give the benefit of the doubt, but even I have my limits (Capcom), but I'm not so sure this is it. 

 

In summary: blah blah blah backpedal, blah blah blah stand by my argument, blah blah blah something about Capcom. :3

The reason N64 games cost so much is that cartridges as a medium are expensive to produce. Each game cart cost around $20-$25 to make, and that's on top of the cash spent to make the game and marketing as well as packaging like the box and manual. In comparison, disc based media like dvds and blurays cost less than a dollar to create. So yeah, charging $30 for a demo is kinda skeezy, even with the costs of the bluray manufacture and packaging. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is how the goddamn fucking $60 pricing started... Some Call of Duty started charging 60 on the PC and then every release that followed was 60 instead of the old 50 for no good reason other than people bought Activision's shit.

While we're still mentioning Call of Duty, why the fuck does Black Ops 1 still cost 60€??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While we're still mentioning Call of Duty, why the fuck does Black Ops 1 still cost 60€??

Hell on the psn store im pretty sure MW2 is still full price and i can get it from the shop for £5 thats pretty crazy!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Either Activision doesn't care or people are still buying it, and if they're still making some revenue of those oldies it would be against their philosophy to make less, even if it meant making more... Or they're deathly afraid it would set precedent for decent sales in the future.

 

 

I think this will become the norm in the near future. We're already buying games at full price, then the "season pass" to get the rest of the game that should be included with the original purchase. Most of the downloadable content is short and pointless like the downloadable content released for Bioshock Infinite so far. Yes, we are not being forced to buy this "extra stuff", but I can't help but feel cheated after pre-ordering a game a year out, knowing people will enjoy it the developers charge another 20 bucks for content that hopefully lives up to my expectations. If it doesn't well tough shit huh? People can bring up the issue of buying used games but I think that that will be totally gone in another 10 years, just look at what Microsoft attempted to do this time around and the only reason they reversed it all was because Sony wouldn't play ball with them this time around.

Most DLC even nowadays(not even talking expansions here) is longer than Ground Zeroes, which is pretty sad when you look at it... I didn't actually buy the Bioshock stuff because the reviews said it was 1 hour long which for the price was a bit unacceptable but there's stuff like Dragonborne, the Civ V expansions and X-com Enemy Within out there which is pretty good extra content sometimes for around the same price or cheaper(!) than Ground Zeroes. 

I have (some) hope that charging for a demo will not become a thing, but for that to happen the community and critics must be vocal until publishers are ashamed of doing it in the future... Sadly it seems Ground Zeroes is not the game that will do it -> http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-one/metal-gear-solid-v-ground-zeroes

Must also take into account that this is primarily a Japanese publisher(and they don't always understand the west like Nintendo has been making very clear for a while now.) and that idea would probably not fly with any game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've played Metal Gear Solid 1, 2, 3, and 4 and I enjoyed all of them but Kojima must be smoking some STRONG shit if he thinks a game that can be beaten in less then a HOUR is worth 30 bucks, I don't know about you but for 30 bucks I expect a little more game with my game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've played Metal Gear Solid 1, 2, 3, and 4 and I enjoyed all of them but Kojima must be smoking some STRONG shit if he thinks a game that can be beaten in less then a HOUR is worth 30 bucks, I don't know about you but for 30 bucks I expect a little more game with my game.

Konami was the one getting drunk off the strong shit. Kojima was the poor guy who was designated as the sober driver.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now