• Welcome to the Angry Joe Show Army!

    Join our community of gamers passionate about our community and our hobby! Whether it's playing, discussing, or watching games, regardless of platform, genre, or location, we have a place for you, always!

  • PS4 Forum

    The AJSA Playstation 4 Division: Game Nights and More!

    The AJSA is on Playstation 4! Join us for weekly Game Nights with a selection of the best games the PS4 has to offer!

  • XBO Forum

    The AJSA Xbox One Division: We Got You Covered!

    The AJSA Xbox One Division is ready to connect with you on XBox Live with a ton of events for the best Xbox games!

  • News Archive

    The Best News from the Best Sites, Every Week.

    The AJSA News Collection Team is hard at work condensing a week's worth of news into one giant-sze digest for you to chew on and discuss! Links to source articles are always provided!

  • More Info

    The AJSA Expeditionary Force: Deploying to Play the Best PC Games!

    The elite vanguard of the AJSA, the Expeditionary Force (EF) chooses a new PC game every week! Join us for weekly events and help decide if the game has a future in the AJSA.

  • The Team

    Streaming Now: The AJSA Stream Team

    Joe can't stream every game, but our talented AJSA Stream Team covers a wide variety of games and personalities! Check them out, and show them some AJSA Love!

  • The Tube

    The AJSA Community YouTube Channel

    Featuring news, gameplay clips, and more from the community! The Community is a chance to showcase the best moments in AJSA Gaming!

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Shagger

PC Gaming, is it reliable?

21 posts in this topic

The last two or three has seen the release of some pretty shoddy work for the PC platform, with games like Sim City, Total War: Rome 2, Battlefield 4 (I know that game, and possible many of the multiplats I'll list were busted on all platforms, but there's a reason why I include them that'll get to later.), The WarZ/Infestation, Gettysburg, Sword of the Stars 2, Rambo and just now Watchdogs, and that's the game that's prompted this post.

 

You see, with PC's superior hardware, should this be happening on the system when the console ports well, work just fine? Even muliplats can't seem to work any better, if not worse, on PC half the time (See, I was going somewhere with that). I'm no whore for graphics, good looking games don't boil down to numbers like frame rates and pixels, that's just shallow and pointless as far as I'm concerned. That potential benefit holds very little weight with me.

 

Between my PS4,  laptop and PS Vita (I'd seriously say the Vita has the best youtube app I know of.) I'm happy with my gaming, web browsing, social networking, streaming and TV catch up services, and rarely have any issues with them. In the 6 months since I bought my PS4, I've experienced game glitches only a handful of times and I think I had a game crash once. My years with PS3 were relatively pain free with regard to this to, minus that the big PSN hack, of course, but was the doing of malicious people, nothing to do with gaming on the system itself. PSN goes down for maintenance more often than is convenient I admit, like last night I couldn't use my redeem codes for Watchdogs since PS Store was offline, but other than that this generation has thus far provided a stable, enjoyable experience.

 

I'm asking because I have plan to build a rig late this year/early next year when my son just starts being old enough to play (clean) video games on console, but I'm having second thoughts because superior and much more expensive hardware doesn't stop the PC platform looking "fragile" by comparison.

 

The last time I built a PC (Admittedly, it was a long time ago and the platform and it's tech have change allot since), the thing barley fucking worked, so I've seen fist hand how wrong it can go, and between me and my brothers, we knew what we were doing. So, without any "Master Race" style delusions or propaganda, because that will only convince me more that PC won't be worth it, will I regret building this rig? Is putting up with bad optimization and broken, un-tested games part of everyday life on PC, because it's starting to look that way.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice orr information to shed light on this for me.

ThE_MarD likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to preface this post by saying that I never really played on a console and that this might be horribly biased but I will try my best to stay neutral. If I fail miserably, have a watch of TB here

 

(Q1), as that video is kind of relevant.

 

Now without knowing what kind of games you are into I will be really general here. Will you regret it ? You may. Broken games are obviously an issue on PC and it is unwise to either preorder a game or buy it on day 1 without any info. A good example would be Dark souls (1) or Saints Row II as they were pretty damn bad and, aruguably, unplayable without community mods, but more on that later. In general I would say that getting a game day 1 on console would be a pretty safe bet, it may end up being horrible, but not by means of it being a bad port but rather poor design or whatever. So if you are into some sweet sweet day 1 action that is that.

 

As for bad games being bad, of course there will be bad games but I would make the bold statement that for every bad one you will find a good one that is either exclusive for PC or stay unported for a long time. You are right to mention that there is WarZ, Rambo and other such games, but you also get games like Civ 5 (might be a bad example since it sucks without BNW in my opinion), Witcher 2 (stayed on the PC for a long time) or DotA/LoL if you are a massochist. But as I previously said, I don`t know what kind of games you are into so this entire paragraph is inconclusive and offers no valuable unbiased info whatsoever.

 

Now for the main good point of PC I touched on lightly: mods. When a port is particularly bad, there is a good chance (the bigger the game the bigger the chance) that the community will create mods that make it at least playable, if not improving on the experience (e.g. Civ 5 and Skyrim Workshop content). This by no means justifies the release of bad ports, and will not get rid of the disappointment of getting a game, looking forward to play it and then not being able to run it for a month. In addition, there are things community mods will not help with, such as the beast spawned from the depths of hell called Games for Windows Live (the biggest pain if you try to play DS 1 on PC in my opinion), but I would say that mods help get rid of most problems, although by no means all.

 

As for building the PC: Oh will it go wrong. I honestly reccomend having someone who understands it on hand as the first time you turn it on, something will probably go wrong. It is however, immensely satisfying to see it finally working as it should. If you can´t get someone to help you I´m sure there are experts somewhere nearby willing to do it for money/there may AJSA members who are total ballers and can help just by voice chat.

 

tl;dr: "Is putting up with bad optimization and broken, un-tested games part of everyday life on PC ?" Yes if you buy or day 1/preorder, no if you wait for reviews + community mods

"Will I regret building this rig?" No clear answer, depends on the games you like, if you like to play day 1 no worries and your initial budget.

 

I´m sorry if this is just a bunch of #PCgamingmasterrace bullshit, or I forgot something really important/didn´t really answer your questions but that´s the best I can do just before an exam.

 

edit1: graphical edits for your reading pleasure

Edited by DragonslayingBard
Glaice, Legolas_Katarn and Shagger like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PC gaming in general Isn't failing it is more the Devs that are failing. I'm really disappointed with how Watch Dogs has turned out. Reguardless I'm going to wait for a few patches until they fix it and it becomes playable for me. To my original point though I do agree with the op on some of the bad games. This is getting beyond a point now and I'm starting to get annoyed with some of the shoddy work that is making it's way through to steam. We keep getting promised good AAA titles over and over, but everytime one is released there is some fundamental flaw that makes the game unplayable or just laughable. Devs need to start taking their time a little more and show a little effort in their games that they call their "babies."

Shagger likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thikn the first issue is that no two pc's are exactly alike. 

Whereas every PS4 Xbox etc use the same chips architecture PC's can vary wildly. Do you have an Nvidia or ATI card ? Do you have intel or AMD ? Are you running windows vista, 7 or 8 or linux? What motherboard do you have? How much RAM ? What kind ? What make? What other programs do you have running? 

There are almost limitless combinations of these meaning that whilst it is in someways easier to optimize for PC in that it doesn't have any proprietary tech or programming in the way it is an impossibility to take every eventuality into consideration.

Secondly you have the problem of prioritisation. Simply put PC games are not as profitable as the console releases. This is due to a number of reasons partly it's because PC gamers tend to be more of an eclectic mix (more of- not saying console gamers aren't but PC gamers are more so). Also piracy and avoiding paying for games is much easier on PC whenever a new DRM comes out there will be people who have figured out a way around it.  Whilst it does happen on consoles it's far trickier to keep ahead of than it is on PC. So if you've got a console edition of a game that a lot of people are going to play and actually BUY what version would you spend your resources optimising?

(Please note I'm saying this is simply PART of the issue and probably a small part.)

But there are a few titles mentioned above that are PC exclusive (particularly the strategy titles) so my Third point would be a combination of A: Pressure and B: Laziness.

For a largish studio like Creative Assembly Total War games are their flagship titles - a lot of investment will be riding on this product and development delays are never taken lightly when you have a publishers and shareholders waiting for their motherf*cking money. From their point of view it was easier to get the product out the door and patch it later than to take the extra time to patch it into a  fully working game.

With Rambo it's even more obvious this game was simply not finished. At all. I would love to hear the back story for went on with that game as quite clearly this was not a finished product if anything it looked like someone's fan mod or something. I would honestly question the sanity of the people who thought that this would sell. It's not like we're in the middle of a Rambo revival.

Shagger likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for the reply Drangonslayingbird, you've been very helpful and honest. (not gonna hit the quote buttons as the post is a bit long.

 

Just something I wanted to clarify that I didn't comment on the the initial post.

 

Firstly, the reason why I won't game on PC right now is because my internet connection, whilst reliable and perfectly adequate for online gaming and streaming services, like netflix, is slow, so it's just not practical to own a digital platform. The build I'm looking to do will only happen if my area get's an upgrade to faster broadband, if it ever dose...

 

TB described a perfectly adequate PC build for $700 (Be about £650 or more given taxes and so on, but I'll stick to US dollars for this post because we can all understand that.). That's great, but my concerns about it are as follows. One, it's slightly misleading as I WILL need a monitor, desk, chair (not something I'm willing to skimp on, it has to be comfortable), a mouse, keyboard, gamepad, possibly a new headset, speaker system, webcam, copy of Windows, the lot. So that $700 pc not is a $700 PC at all. After everything else it could easily be double that. 

 

The other thing is longevity. Would this $700 pc be relevant for long, especially for future PC exclusives? With DirectX12 right around the corner, it seems wiser to wait, but that's always the case with PC's since the tech moves on all the time. Now, TB described this as an advantage, but I'm not so sure he's right. My £350 PS4 will be optimized to play it's games for years without me spending any additional money, provided the system is reliable and doesn't die on me of course. Probably won't get the same quality of graphics, but it'll always work. If I end up spending that same $700 again on necessary upgrades for the PC over the years, we're now talking more that four times the cost compared to a console. That's something that the lower cost of the games will struggle to plug, especially when you consider one can't sell or trade them. Now, that's purely hypothetical, and I doubt it'll be that expensive to keep that $700 fully up to date, the point is that PC's have a higher on-going cost than consoles as well as a higher initial one, and I get the feeling that's rarely taken into account. The 8nth gen consoles are new, they'll be relevant for years, a newly built PC however...

 

Any thoughts?

 

BTW, apologizes if anyone has posted to this topic while I've been working on this post (Had a browser fart and had to start again :X ) and my have clarified some of these already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that the cheaper option is obviously the console way of life due to the fact that as multiple people have pointed out.. It is always the same accross the board for everybody. Where as a PC player you could have a $700 setup that runs things from medium to high where as someone could have a setup that costs around $1000 and get settings of high to ultra. However when you get the setup you want for the right price. Then you notice the massive difference and that's where the PC excels in its own right. Longevity though.. PC is not the right way to go if you want it to last. Console everytime due to the fact you can have a console for over four years with no problems and still plug your games in and just play it.

Shagger likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that the cheaper option is obviously the console way of life due to the fact that as multiple people have pointed out.. It is always the same accross the board for everybody. Where as a PC player you could have a $700 setup that runs things from medium to high where as someone could have a setup that costs around $1000 and get settings of high to ultra. However when you get the setup you want for the right price. Then you notice the massive difference and that's where the PC excels in its own right. Longevity though.. PC is not the right way to go if you want it to last. Console everytime due to the fact you can have a console for over four years with no problems and still plug your games in and just play it.

 

Thanks fo the reply, you've been very helpful as well along with Winnam and dragon, but anyway, back om topic.

 

 

I thikn the first issue is that no two pc's are exactly alike. 

Whereas every PS4 Xbox etc use the same chips architecture PC's can vary wildly. Do you have an Nvidia or ATI card ? Do you have intel or AMD ? Are you running windows vista, 7 or 8 or linux? What motherboard do you have? How much RAM ? What kind ? What make? What other programs do you have running? 

There are almost limitless combinations of these meaning that whilst it is in someways easier to optimize for PC in that it doesn't have any proprietary tech or programming in the way it is an impossibility to take every eventuality into consideration.

 

Secondly you have the problem of prioritisation. Simply put PC games are not as profitable as the console releases. This is due to a number of reasons partly it's because PC gamers tend to be more of an eclectic mix (more of- not saying console gamers aren't but PC gamers are more so). Also piracy and avoiding paying for games is much easier on PC whenever a new DRM comes out there will be people who have figured out a way around it.  Whilst it does happen on consoles it's far trickier to keep ahead of than it is on PC. So if you've got a console edition of a game that a lot of people are going to play and actually BUY what version would you spend your resources optimising?

 

(Please note I'm saying this is simply PART of the issue and probably a small part.)

But there are a few titles mentioned above that are PC exclusive (particularly the strategy titles) so my Third point would be a combination of A: Pressure and B: Laziness.

For a largish studio like Creative Assembly Total War games are their flagship titles - a lot of investment will be riding on this product and development delays are never taken lightly when you have a publishers and shareholders waiting for their motherf*cking money. From their point of view it was easier to get the product out the door and patch it later than to take the extra time to patch it into a  fully working game.

With Rambo it's even more obvious this game was simply not finished. At all. I would love to hear the back story for went on with that game as quite clearly this was not a finished product if anything it looked like someone's fan mod or something. I would honestly question the sanity of the people who thought that this would sell. It's not like we're in the middle of a Rambo revival.

 

Good points there. I won't go through all of them because I agree and it all makes sense, but I find the highlighted section to be the most interesting.

 

If all that is the case, and it does make sense, it appears games (unless they are PC exclusives) are indeed optimized for console then ported to PC. It's just before this next-gen came out it looked liked games would be developed on PC then ported to console given that X Box One, PS4 and PC all use the same X86 architecture. With the PC having superior hardware, it still seems strange to me, even if games are optimized for console, that PC ports seem to struggle. I understand that PC's are all different and games on that platform have to made to work on various hardware (Another reason why only people far to much money than there IQ deserves would build a REALLY powerful rig), but shouldn't there some standard that hold these companys like NVidia and ATI on the same page so these various hardware and software can function together properly?

DragonslayingBard likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad I could help

 

Thing is, it always seems like a good idea to wait for a while to get a new PC or to upgrade it. I would say that right now the advancements might be slower as the "next gen" consoles just came out and already there are games that need to take a hit on the graphics side so that they can run them. e.g. Watch dogs. If you are OK with lowering the graphics settings as time goes on I would say a PC lasts pretty damn long. The internet thing is good to mention too, I don´t know what you would consider adequate but if you have a slower connection it can rule out several PC exclusives that are dependant on a good ping.

 

I won´t touch on the point that there should be a standard for holding NVidia and ATI and the like on the same page as I´m not that knowledgeable, but I would personaly compare them to Xbox and PS in terms of their relationship.

 

Oh and, although both sing I´m a Bard not a Bird, but it´s OK just call me Chris :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't play Watchdogs, but from what I gather it's largely unoptimized. Some of it's problems like pop-in everything come from being a port in the first place but we've been dealing with halfway decent ports from Ubisoft for a while now, I'd still take it over having to aim at anything ever without a mouse to be honest.

Games have been fine imo, Sim City had server overload issues but worked and works pretty well for the record almost no bugs there though some of the design is debatable. There's far more games on PC than on consoles mainly because we have a working backlog that goes back to the 80's, so you need to know what you're buying more often than not but I think it's pretty safe to say PC gaming is reliable. Reaper of Souls released recently and had no problems, Arkham Origins had less bugs on PC than on Console(I've only encountered one bug in fact while playing it) and no performance issues, All the bethesda games perform better on PC, Wolfenstein released with a few easily solvable graphic glitches but no problems at all last week, there's an entire host of examples of good releases just like I could be handpicking bad releases on console, most of the time it's the same game.

I agree that the cheaper option is obviously the console way of life due to the fact that as multiple people have pointed out.. It is always the same accross the board for everybody. Where as a PC player you could have a $700 setup that runs things from medium to high where as someone could have a setup that costs around $1000 and get settings of high to ultra. However when you get the setup you want for the right price. Then you notice the massive difference and that's where the PC excels in its own right. Longevity though.. PC is not the right way to go if you want it to last. Console everytime due to the fact you can have a console for over four years with no problems and still plug your games in and just play it.

I disagree, the upfront investment is higher(and even that depends on how powerful you want it.) but unless you buy only release day $60 games you're going to be saving money with the games thesmelves on PC more often than not. GMG, G2A, GOG, Steam sales and so on. Maintenance of hardware is made far easier by selling used parts as well, if you keep them in good condition and sell at the right time you can usually upgrade for relatively minor investments, I'd say I spend roughly the same as a console player spends maybe a bit more in my case actually a lot less because taxes around here are fucked up(and too stupid to tax online purchases yet.) but that's not a standard I believe. The great thing is freedom to have something or not in your system, maybe you want to run everything on super ultra high with 3 monitors and maybe you just want high with one monitor, you're not being forced to pay for hardware you're not going to use or being locked into a limited library, hell you can change your OS to whatever you want.

 

 

It's just before this next-gen came out it looked liked games would be developed on PC then ported to console given that X Box One, PS4 and PC all use the same X86 architecture.


Oh they are developed on PC, the consoles are basically PCs now(and xbox has been for a while anyway.) but to put it simply their closed nature permits developers to better focus on those specifications without worrying about optimizing it for other kinds of computers. I'm not entirely sure how Watchdogs compares between console and PC btw, I've only seem people playing on PC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree, the upfront investment is higher(and even that depends on how powerful you want it.) but unless you buy only release day $60 games you're going to be saving money with the games thesmelves on PC more often than not. GMG, G2A, GOG, Steam sales and so on. Maintenance of hardware is made far easier by selling used parts as well, if you keep them in good condition and sell at the right time you can usually upgrade for relatively minor investments, I'd say I spend roughly the same as a console player spends maybe a bit more in my case actually a lot less because taxes around here are fucked up(and too stupid to tax online purchases yet.) but that's not a standard I believe. The great thing is freedom to have something or not in your system, maybe you want to run everything on super ultra high with 3 monitors and maybe you just want high with one monitor, you're not being forced to pay for hardware you're not going to use or being locked into a limited library, hell you can change your OS to whatever you want.

Completely understandable and just had a heated debate with my friend about this. He considers console better due to the fact you don't have to upgrade at all and most games port forwarded to the consoles rather than PC. Being a PC fanatic obviously I'm going to say different. However I am inclined to agree with the fact you don't have to upgrade at all. With a PC you do have to upgrade eventually. Yeah fair enough you can get those upgrades for very cheap but when do you ever see a console getting upgraded these days unless it's some kind of mod ?

The reason you don't see it is because it doesn't require it. Longevity... Console wins.

ThE_MarD likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even the worst pc port is almost never WORSE than the console version. Hell, you can be almost 100% certain that the pc version will be at the very least slightly better. Even a terrible port will probably cost around 10 dollars less, and have a higher resolution, it aint much, but it is still better.

Just cause we have bad ports does not mean we are off worse, it just means we are not off as good as we could be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even the worst pc port is almost never WORSE than the console version. Hell, you can be almost 100% certain that the pc version will be at the very least slightly better. Even a terrible port will probably cost around 10 dollars less, and have a higher resolution, it aint much, but it is still better.

Just cause we have bad ports does not mean we are off worse, it just means we are not off as good as we could be.

 

*sigh*... well, had to happen sooner or later, intelligent discussion and debate brought to a halt by a "White Knight". Ok, here goes...

 

The frequency of games coming out buggy and broken on the PC is high, certainly higher than on consoles. Take Watchdogs for example. If you read through the thread you'll see some very interesting and very well thought out theories as to why this is. No matter what theory is true or not, this isn't about frame rates or resolution's, it's about stability.

 

I started this thread to learn more about what this is like for PC gamers. I wanted to figure out if this is a reality of PC gaming I should put up with on occasion or be able to avoid somehow for when I do my planned PC build. There is no build guide or spec's list that can tell me about this. As a console gamer, I'm used to a simple, stable experience and researching this now will help me avoid a migraine later on.

 

No gaming platform is perfect, so there's no need to defend every little criticism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I started this thread to learn more about what this is like for PC gamers. I wanted to figure out if this is a reality of PC gaming I should put up with on occasion or be able to avoid somehow for when I do my planned PC build. There is no build guide or spec's list that can tell me about this. As a console gamer, I'm used to a simple, stable experience and researching this now will help me avoid a migraine later on.

Wish more console players would look at this exact bit right here and learn. I applaud you Shagger. People don't ever think "Am I going to have to deal with problems further down the line." Make sure you get the system that is built to your budget and your standard pal. When you get what you've been looking for after all this time. You will notice the difference and it will be worth it. I can't promise so much for the buggy releasing games but you know the PC will work up to scratch if you get the rig you really want.

Shagger likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wish more console players would look at this exact bit right here and learn. I applaud you Shagger. People don't ever think "Am I going to have to deal with problems further down the line." Make sure you get the system that is built to your budget and your standard pal. When you get what you've been looking for after all this time. You will notice the difference and it will be worth it. I can't promise so much for the buggy releasing games but you know the PC will work up to scratch if you get the rig you really want.

 

I'd like to think think that what I said could apply to more than just console gamers. Never the less, I really appreciate what you said and I'm sure I will enjoy the PC when the time is right.

 

*gets up, opens the window and sticks his head out* : "WILL SOMEBODY INSTALL SOME DECENT BROADBAND HERE!!!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now for the main good point of PC I touched on lightly: mods. When a port is particularly bad, there is a good chance (the bigger the game the bigger the chance) that the community will create mods that make it at least playable, if not improving on the experience (e.g. Civ 5 and Skyrim Workshop content). This by no means justifies the release of bad ports, and will not get rid of the disappointment of getting a game, looking forward to play it and then not being able to run it for a month. In addition, there are things community mods will not help with, such as the beast spawned from the depths of hell called Games for Windows Live (the biggest pain if you try to play DS 1 on PC in my opinion), but I would say that mods help get rid of most problems, although by no means all.

That would be if you have the patience for all of it. I just spent two and a half to three weeks modding Skyrim before playing a bit of it. Took that long because I could never figure out which one conflicted with the others, then later found out about Mod Organizer (which I definitely like over Mod Manager) near the end of the second week. Before I found out about it, I probably installed and uninstalled Skyrim at least four times even with Mod Manager.

 

Heck, even when I used Mod Oragnizer with BOSS and TS5Edit, I still crashed to desktop even though the latter two tools told me I shouldn't have anymore problems. Had to figure out one by one what was causing the problem, and found that one of the housing mods' .esp needed to be somewhere at the end of the order. Don't know why TS5Edit didn't pick up on that and gave me the go ahead. But honestly I doubt anyone who didn't have the patience I had trying to figure out how to get all 200+ of the mods I wanted to work together they'd have just said F it and played Vanilla. I almost did that myself.

 

As I said in another thread, what you get out of PC gaming is dependent on what you put in. PC has potential, and it's up to the user to tap into it.

 

Didn't play Watchdogs, but from what I gather it's largely unoptimized. Some of it's problems like pop-in everything come from being a port in the first place but we've been dealing with halfway decent ports from Ubisoft for a while now, I'd still take it over having to aim at anything ever without a mouse to be honest.

I think TB put it best when he said "First World PC Master Race Problem" or something to that effect in his WTF is... Watch Dogs video. But I understand the frustration over it especially for those who have incredibly high end machines. I personally don't see the graphics of Watch Dogs on PC or its framerate not being 60 fps the whole time as a problem. The videos I've seen of it still has it looking great. Sub 60 (and for some games sub 30) fps never really bothered me. Heck, I modded Skyrim so much that when I'm outdoors my framerate's somewhere between high 20 to low 40 and I'm playing it just fine. When I'm in dungeons, I hit 60 and above now and then, but as long as the game looks gorgeous as it does, I can sacrifice framerate.

 

I also ended up not getting a PS4 or Watch Dogs as I may be needing the money for something else not gaming related in the near future. I'm kinda glad that I didn't too at this point in time to be honest. I may get it during Steam's Holiday Sale later this year depending on how much it is then.

 

 

*sigh*... well, had to happen sooner or later, intelligent discussion and debate brought to a halt by a "White Knight". Ok, here goes...

 

The frequency of games coming out buggy and broken on the PC is high, certainly higher than on consoles. Take Watchdogs for example. If you read through the thread you'll see some very interesting and very well thought out theories as to why this is. No matter what theory is true or not, this isn't about frame rates or resolution's, it's about stability.

 

I started this thread to learn more about what this is like for PC gamers. I wanted to figure out if this is a reality of PC gaming I should put up with on occasion or be able to avoid somehow for when I do my planned PC build. There is no build guide or spec's list that can tell me about this. As a console gamer, I'm used to a simple, stable experience and researching this now will help me avoid a migraine later on.

 

No gaming platform is perfect, so there's no need to defend every little criticism.

Yeah, despite the best intentions of having proper discussions about these things, these sort of folk always turn up. It happened in this thread too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

first things first, the the hole "PC master race" thing is just a joke and to expand are egos please do not ever take it seriously (and if you meat someone who truly believes he/she is superior because they play video games on a PC, don't wast your time with them)

 

BioShock Infinite, Company of Heroes, Skyrim, Fallout NV, Guns of Icarus, Just Cause 2, Left 4 Dead 2, Metro 2033 Portal, Red Orchestra 2, Rome:Total War, Civilization V, Space Engineers, Terraria, Torchlight, Hearthstone, Starcraft 2, Half-Life 2, HAWKEN, these are a few of the games That my cheap PC can play and run very nicely with no outside assistance (most of which wear $10 of less) please don't assume that all the PC gets is bad ports and unfinished games

 

You don't NEED to pay top dollar for a desk and chair, you can probably find a good one at the Good Will or whatever they call it ware you are, (hell, i found mine on the side of the road) you can find a mouse for like  $10 anywhere, same for a key bored, for monitor your TV will most likely have a HDMI port and there you go, head phones and/or speakers well you TV once more, and you can use one of your PS3 game pads on a PC. You will not need to spend $700 to upgrade a $700 PC thats just silly, in about 3 years you will probably replace the graphic card but the mother bored, CPU, hard drive, RAM, power supply, and case most likely do not need to be replaced unless you did something weird to them

 

There are a lot of problems that come with PC gaming but the thing is you have to put a lot of effort in and outcome is immensely rewarding, if you want to have to never have to put effort into your games, you just want to plug it in and play the PS4 is grate for you but I like the challenges and you cant play Space Engineers on  consoles... its in SPACE!!!

ThE_MarD likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

first things first, the the hole "PC master race" thing is just a joke and to expand are egos please do not ever take it seriously (and if you meat someone who truly believes he/she is superior because they play video games on a PC, don't wast your time with them)

 

BioShock Infinite, Company of Heroes, Skyrim, Fallout NV, Guns of Icarus, Just Cause 2, Left 4 Dead 2, Metro 2033 Portal, Red Orchestra 2, Rome:Total War, Civilization V, Space Engineers, Terraria, Torchlight, Hearthstone, Starcraft 2, Half-Life 2, HAWKEN, these are a few of the games That my cheap PC can play and run very nicely with no outside assistance (most of which wear $10 of less) please don't assume that all the PC gets is bad ports and unfinished games

 

You don't NEED to pay top dollar for a desk and chair, you can probably find a good one at the Good Will or whatever they call it ware you are, (hell, i found mine on the side of the road) you can find a mouse for like  $10 anywhere, same for a key bored, for monitor your TV will most likely have a HDMI port and there you go, head phones and/or speakers well you TV once more, and you can use one of your PS3 game pads on a PC. You will not need to spend $700 to upgrade a $700 PC thats just silly, in about 3 years you will probably replace the graphic card but the mother bored, CPU, hard drive, RAM, power supply, and case most likely do not need to be replaced unless you did something weird to them

 

There are a lot of problems that come with PC gaming but the thing is you have to put a lot of effort in and outcome is immensely rewarding, if you want to have to never have to put effort into your games, you just want to plug it in and play the PS4 is grate for you but I like the challenges and you cant play Space Engineers on  consoles... its in SPACE!!!

 

Thanks for the input. Most of the stats I gave about cost were hypothetical, not really fact, jut trying to make a point. Unfortunately I can't just plug my very lovely 60in 1080p LED TV into my PC when I build it because I still need it so other people can use if for, among other things, my PS4.

 

I understand the benefits of PC gaming, if I didn't why would I even consider it, the point is to try and let loose a few concerns. Either way, thanks for the reply.

 

 

That would be if you have the patience for all of it. I just spent two and a half to three weeks modding Skyrim before playing a bit of it. Took that long because I could never figure out which one conflicted with the others, then later found out about Mod Organizer (which I definitely like over Mod Manager) near the end of the second week. Before I found out about it, I probably installed and uninstalled Skyrim at least four times even with Mod Manager.

 

Heck, even when I used Mod Oragnizer with BOSS and TS5Edit, I still crashed to desktop even though the latter two tools told me I shouldn't have anymore problems. Had to figure out one by one what was causing the problem, and found that one of the housing mods' .esp needed to be somewhere at the end of the order. Don't know why TS5Edit didn't pick up on that and gave me the go ahead. But honestly I doubt anyone who didn't have the patience I had trying to figure out how to get all 200+ of the mods I wanted to work together they'd have just said F it and played Vanilla. I almost did that myself.

 

As I said in another thread, what you get out of PC gaming is dependent on what you put in. PC has potential, and it's up to the user to tap into it.

 

I think TB put it best when he said "First World PC Master Race Problem" or something to that effect in his WTF is... Watch Dogs video. But I understand the frustration over it especially for those who have incredibly high end machines.

 

I also ended up not getting a PS4 or Watch Dogs as I may be needing the money for something else not gaming related in the near future. I'm kinda glad that I didn't too at this point in time to be honest. I may get it during Steam's Holiday Sale later this year depending on how much it is then.

 

 

Yeah, despite the best intentions of having proper discussions about these things, these sort of folk always turn up. It happened in this thread too.

 

hmm.. looks like modding Skyrim is going to be a little more complicated than I thought. I'll have to keep expanding my know how on that.

 

And that thread that DR started. I elected to avoid it because I knew that would happen. Now, I respect Damion, but I have to question if putting that thread up attached what was a pretty biased article, especially as a commander, was a good idea to begin with. I'm sure he meant well, but that was only gonna end one way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As you may already know a console build of a game is generally more stable than its PC counterpart due to the ease of coding and optimization. The developers are only working with one to three different hardware sets and as such they can fine tune the game for each platform. This is why console games are in general more stable, have less bugs and are able to operate to a certain degree of high visual fidelity and performance on what would be considered poverty level hardware in the PC gaming space.

 

Here is the pitfall of this though, you're stuck with whatever the developer shovels you. You can't make it look better, you can't make it run better, you can't do anything but what they already dictated for you. Sure PC games sometimes come out in questionable states, however they get patched, they become further optimized, and they can be modded, in the end they all for the most part work perfectly fine.

 

You think you're spending less money than a PC gamer by shelling out $400 for a console? You're most definitely not if you're actually purchasing games, even with a $700 PC the cost premium for games on the PC is less, sales happen far more often and new games go on sale quickly. You may be spending more up front but in the long run it will cost you much less game for game.

 

Let's just say the life cycle for the PlayStation 4 will be 7 years, each year you buy about 15 games at an average price of $40 per game because you want to wait for a sale or get them second hand. That is $4,200 spent on games over the course of a 7 year period plus the cost of the console itself totaling $4,600.

 

Now let's take that same 7 years and run through the realistic costs for a PC. You spend the initial $1,000 to get things going, that includes all the hardware, monitor, keyboard, mouse etc. You use the same logic and time frame as the console gamer and wait for sales on the games you want, you get these games for an average of $20 a piece totaling $2,100. So far you've only spent $3,100 leaving you with $1,500 to spare.

 

Naturally you will need to upgrade certain things to continue to play newer games as the years go on. $250 on a new CPU 3.5 years in, $120 on a new motherboard 3.5 years in, $400 on a new GPU 3.5 years in and for safe measure $100 for more/newer ram with the final thing needed being increased HDD space costing another $120.

 

You have a surplus of $510 above the console user, so to anyone who says console gaming is less expensive; they can shove off, it's honestly more expensive in the long run. On top of this your games will have much better performance, they will look better, you have functionality that is far beyond that of a console and you're spending less.

 

What is there to think about? PC may not be a casual platform and not for everyone but if you're smart you will get better experiences than a console gamer and end up spending less money than them, it's kind of a no brainer.

Recoveryanonymous likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess that was one thing i really liked about my xbox... it was simple. You never had to mess around with graphics settings or wonder if your system could play it, but I can't play my favorite games like Killing Floor and Counter Strike on console though...  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As you may already know a console build of a game is generally more stable than its PC counterpart due to the ease of coding and optimization. The developers are only working with one to three different hardware sets and as such they can fine tune the game for each platform. This is why console games are in general more stable, have less bugs and are able to operate to a certain degree of high visual fidelity and performance on what would be considered poverty level hardware in the PC gaming space.

 

Here is the pitfall of this though, you're stuck with whatever the developer shovels you. You can't make it look better, you can't make it run better, you can't do anything but what they already dictated for you. Sure PC games sometimes come out in questionable states, however they get patched, they become further optimized, and they can be modded, in the end they all for the most part work perfectly fine.

 

You think you're spending less money than a PC gamer by shelling out $400 for a console? You're most definitely not if you're actually purchasing games, even with a $700 PC the cost premium for games on the PC is less, sales happen far more often and new games go on sale quickly. You may be spending more up front but in the long run it will cost you much less game for game.

 

Let's just say the life cycle for the PlayStation 4 will be 7 years, each year you buy about 15 games at an average price of $40 per game because you want to wait for a sale or get them second hand. That is $4,200 spent on games over the course of a 7 year period plus the cost of the console itself totaling $4,600.

 

Now let's take that same 7 years and run through the realistic costs for a PC. You spend the initial $1,000 to get things going, that includes all the hardware, monitor, keyboard, mouse etc. You use the same logic and time frame as the console gamer and wait for sales on the games you want, you get these games for an average of $20 a piece totaling $2,100. So far you've only spent $3,100 leaving you with $1,500 to spare.

 

Naturally you will need to upgrade certain things to continue to play newer games as the years go on. $250 on a new CPU 3.5 years in, $120 on a new motherboard 3.5 years in, $400 on a new GPU 3.5 years in and for safe measure $100 for more/newer ram with the final thing needed being increased HDD space costing another $120.

 

You have a surplus of $510 above the console user, so to anyone who says console gaming is less expensive; they can shove off, it's honestly more expensive in the long run. On top of this your games will have much better performance, they will look better, you have functionality that is far beyond that of a console and you're spending less.

 

What is there to think about? PC may not be a casual platform and not for everyone but if you're smart you will get better experiences than a console gamer and end up spending less money than them, it's kind of a no brainer.

 

Running those numbers through my exchange rate/ inflation rate guess-o-meter (Due to import tax, PC parts tend to cost a little bit more over here)  and I reckon that for me in that hypothetical scenario the long term cost of PC gaming and Console gaming would work out roughly the same. Still, gives one something to think about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heyyo,

TL/DR? It's more of preference of setting & controls. Lounge in the Living room with a gamepad or at a desk & chair with a keyboard & mouse. PC game optimization is sometimes an issue, but it's rare a title stays broken forever.. plus with Linux getting more popular thanks to SteamOS and Steam for Linux? The PC platform is getting more open and freeware. I love that. :)

First off? Linux. It's free, and it's all about modification and open-source. I love how open and interesting it is! It doesn't have the shelf price of $100+ found on Windows and it offers more freedom. Graphical User Interfaces (GUI) tend to vary a lot and offer different advantages and enhancements. Even playing games made for Windows via Linux? Most of them run pretty close to the same performance as the Windows counterparts thanks to Wine and even better is the spin-off known as Crossover for Linux. ;)

Another bonus? No need to worry about viruses in Linux... they don't really exist, much line Macintosh... which is also based of Unix just like Linux.

 

Completely understandable and just had a heated debate with my friend about this. He considers console better due to the fact you don't have to upgrade at all and most games port forwarded to the consoles rather than PC. Being a PC fanatic obviously I'm going to say different. However I am inclined to agree with the fact you don't have to upgrade at all. With a PC you do have to upgrade eventually. Yeah fair enough you can get those upgrades for very cheap but when do you ever see a console getting upgraded these days unless it's some kind of mod ?

The reason you don't see it is because it doesn't require it. Longevity... Console wins.

Yes in longevity the Console is king... but when it comes to compatibility? PC is king. You can't play Xbox games on a Xbox One... you can't play PS2 games on a PS4... yet on PC? I can play games all the way back to the DOS period without issue. All it requires is a little work on my side, either with Dosbox or Virtualization on older titles, or going to sites like www.gog.com where they've remade many classic games to work on modern PC's by just clicking "next" on an installer program. :)

Every once in a while, I get a little nostalgia and love picking up a classic game... the way the console system goes, is you either have to keep said older generation console, accessories and game disks/cartridges. On PC? with Digital Distribution on Steam and GoG? Many classic games can just be downloaded. My catalog on each site houses many-many games that I can simply reinstall.. this efficiency and safe method of software backup (besides the epic sales) has rendered places like EB Games obsolete for PC Game sales, hence why the PC section has shrunk so much in the last decade from a quarter of the store to a column or two only... Plus, they never have good sales... which leads me to this next quote...

 

first things first, the the hole "PC master race" thing is just a joke and to expand are egos please do not ever take it seriously (and if you meat someone who truly believes he/she is superior because they play video games on a PC, don't wast your time with them)

 

BioShock Infinite, Company of Heroes, Skyrim, Fallout NV, Guns of Icarus, Just Cause 2, Left 4 Dead 2, Metro 2033 Portal, Red Orchestra 2, Rome:Total War, Civilization V, Space Engineers, Terraria, Torchlight, Hearthstone, Starcraft 2, Half-Life 2, HAWKEN, these are a few of the games That my cheap PC can play and run very nicely with no outside assistance (most of which wear $10 of less) please don't assume that all the PC gets is bad ports and unfinished games

 

You don't NEED to pay top dollar for a desk and chair, you can probably find a good one at the Good Will or whatever they call it ware you are, (hell, i found mine on the side of the road) you can find a mouse for like  $10 anywhere, same for a key bored, for monitor your TV will most likely have a HDMI port and there you go, head phones and/or speakers well you TV once more, and you can use one of your PS3 game pads on a PC. You will not need to spend $700 to upgrade a $700 PC thats just silly, in about 3 years you will probably replace the graphic card but the mother bored, CPU, hard drive, RAM, power supply, and case most likely do not need to be replaced unless you did something weird to them

 

There are a lot of problems that come with PC gaming but the thing is you have to put a lot of effort in and outcome is immensely rewarding, if you want to have to never have to put effort into your games, you just want to plug it in and play the PS4 is grate for you but I like the challenges and you cant play Space Engineers on  consoles... its in SPACE!!!

QFT. I do love PC more than console. I grew up on both, but I can't say I like gamepads over my trusty Keyboard & Mouse. Sure, there's stuff like the ControllerMAX's CronusMAX but before I did buy an XFPS Sniper 2.0 for the Xbox 360 and it was quite disappointing how laggy it was. I'm sure newer devices are better, but I've been put off the idea of spending another $60 for potentially another disappointing product. As for actual keyboard & mouse support on consoles? I know the Xbox 360 allows a keyboard for native text input... but no mouse. PS3 allowed Keyboard & Mouse... but only Unreal Tournament 3 actually allowed the use of K&M... Xbox One has no native support for K&M in games but the PS4 does.. but that's title-support-dependent which did not work out on the PS3...

It's often the case too that people think acessories are cheap... but with TV's and Graphics Processing Units both supporting HDMI these days? Hooking up to a TV, either it fits on a desk or not is simple. Plug a cable in, power up the PC and you're done.

 

As you may already know a console build of a game is generally more stable than its PC counterpart due to the ease of coding and optimization. The developers are only working with one to three different hardware sets and as such they can fine tune the game for each platform. This is why console games are in general more stable, have less bugs and are able to operate to a certain degree of high visual fidelity and performance on what would be considered poverty level hardware in the PC gaming space.

 

Here is the pitfall of this though, you're stuck with whatever the developer shovels you. You can't make it look better, you can't make it run better, you can't do anything but what they already dictated for you. Sure PC games sometimes come out in questionable states, however they get patched, they become further optimized, and they can be modded, in the end they all for the most part work perfectly fine.

 

You think you're spending less money than a PC gamer by shelling out $400 for a console? You're most definitely not if you're actually purchasing games, even with a $700 PC the cost premium for games on the PC is less, sales happen far more often and new games go on sale quickly. You may be spending more up front but in the long run it will cost you much less game for game.

 

Let's just say the life cycle for the PlayStation 4 will be 7 years, each year you buy about 15 games at an average price of $40 per game because you want to wait for a sale or get them second hand. That is $4,200 spent on games over the course of a 7 year period plus the cost of the console itself totaling $4,600.

 

Now let's take that same 7 years and run through the realistic costs for a PC. You spend the initial $1,000 to get things going, that includes all the hardware, monitor, keyboard, mouse etc. You use the same logic and time frame as the console gamer and wait for sales on the games you want, you get these games for an average of $20 a piece totaling $2,100. So far you've only spent $3,100 leaving you with $1,500 to spare.

 

Naturally you will need to upgrade certain things to continue to play newer games as the years go on. $250 on a new CPU 3.5 years in, $120 on a new motherboard 3.5 years in, $400 on a new GPU 3.5 years in and for safe measure $100 for more/newer ram with the final thing needed being increased HDD space costing another $120.

 

You have a surplus of $510 above the console user, so to anyone who says console gaming is less expensive; they can shove off, it's honestly more expensive in the long run. On top of this your games will have much better performance, they will look better, you have functionality that is far beyond that of a console and you're spending less.

 

What is there to think about? PC may not be a casual platform and not for everyone but if you're smart you will get better experiences than a console gamer and end up spending less money than them, it's kind of a no brainer.

This is a pretty basic break-down... but it's true. If you're willing to wait on new titles? There's always the change of a good sale. Steam is famous for its Summer and Winter sales. Both offer ridiculous deals that can save you hundreds of dollars.

For upgrading PC components? Nowadays Multi-GPU is a very viable solution. I'm currently running two GTX 480's in SLI. I bought my first GTX 480 in 2012 for $300, and then a few months ago bought a second one for $80 on eBay used. These two together have the same performance as a new GTX 770. My upgrade cost to match that? $80 instead of shelling out an extra $220 to upgrade from a single-GPU to another single-GPU. :P

But besides costs... the bottom line is true, usually games will run better on a Console due to hardware specifications don't vary.. but it is extremely rare that a game ever stays broken due to modding. As for costs as well? With the momentum Linux has been gaining especially with SteamOS? That even means FREE operating system, with FREE addons such office document writers and support and free future software upgrades.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0