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Artose

Event Feedback

30 posts in this topic

 We are looking for structuring feedback, what we can do in the future, and overall impression of the event in order to make it better.

Please be thorough with your feedback.

 

Please no one sentence answers. We are looking for a good structure in order to make future events go as smooth as possible. 

 

Artose

BlackOpsElf likes this

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Alright! So event is over, and here are my 3 coins about the matter.

 

First of all - I would like to apologize for being late! I have had some real life issues here and i could not postpone them.

 

Now that this is out of the way! These are my thoughts about the matter.

First and for most, i've had a lot of fun! I've been on the loosing team twice and i've learnt A LOT! However i do have some things that i would like to be improved for next time.

 

I think that the format was just a bit off. I mean I love the casualty of it, however if it was supposed to be a training session, and here is what we lack:

  • Mostly i would say we lacked analysis.
    • I think that each match should have been subjected to post analysis. We have had an officer that have been spectating and i've heard points on what we did good or bad only on 1 match. Now i know i've but in at the middle and i don't know how it been before i joined, however we have played 3 matches and i still have heard feedback on our team play only once.
    • There was no real personal feedback. I think we should try and have 2-3 or maybe even 4 spectator so we can
    1. Tip in mid battle as things go (Not only letting the pilots do this job, because not always we can have pilots that can analyse what's going wrong with the ship handling)
    2. Personal post match analysis per ship. As in for each ship individually (Saying things like: "In that situation, you should have turned your ship with these guns and taken this actions..." etc)
    • Another thing is before readying up and starting a match would be ship load-out analysis. As in locking the ships with the gun presets (Meaning the captains will not change anything) and having someone go on and explain why certain weapon/ship choices are good or disadvantaging in this current map/enemy team ship/gun loud-out.

I think in that way we could actually teach people with basics and the theory crafting in this game apart from real game experience. I mean it is very important to go out there and just see how it plays, but if you are not getting pointed out on your mistakes or things you could do better - It is a much longer process. I don't think anyone would say no to tips and tricks.

 

  • More matches. As in longer practice session which starts possibly earlier with the option for others to join.
  • More matches like the last one we did.

It is very useful to play against random people and work on our coordination. After all this clan and game itself is all about team work on a whole new level. It is not just 1 ship by itself, it is a work of 2 to 4 ships as  a team. I think that learning to pilot and having the basics of a game is extremely good, but at the same time - Do learn to communicate and coordinate with other captains in the field. We don't need to use TS for that - Let it be a match of entirely in game voice communications (That way we can even set up 2 separate matches as 2v2 are easier to find). 

The only thing though would be to have someone experienced to spectate still to look only at our ships and to maybe correct their positioning decisions or crew movement (Not in a manner of a spectator who knows where the enemy is, but as a spectator that looks at our captains position and what they see and correct possible mistakes like some of my crew advice me at times. This is not a must however).

 

  • Perhaps use the practice mode where officers/experienced pilots would be setting hazards on the ship to train very new players - Explaining the different aspects of the game like repair vs rebuild, what is good against fire and such, as well as summon practice dummies to practice gun shooting with the various weapons and showing them how they work and what they are strong against (Or just shooting each-other as moving targets which will train both pilots and new gunners). I think it is possible to heal your ship if i am not mistaken in practice mode - Which can be used for gunning practice purpose perfectly.

 

 

All in all, it was a great time and i enjoyed it very much =) it was really cool to play with you guys and nibble on new tips and tactics (Like learning from Niel that you can ram a ship from bellow into your ally which is above the enemy to destroy them with double hull damage XD )

 

This is what i think can be improved for next time if we can arrange at least as big of a party if not bigger =)

I would love to see if someone disagrees with my ideas and have better suggestions =D

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Quick note on sandbox controlls - there is no hull health repair button - they are ass follows:

F1: default AI setting (works in normal matches, but only for commander of the ship) - affects only your ship

F2: agressive AI setting that makes AI man the guns (works in normal matches, but only for commander of the ship) - affects only your ship

F3: repair AI setting (works in normal matches, but only for commander of the ship) - affects only your ship

F4: AI off/on toggle - affects only your ship

F5: direct hit on your ship - affects only your ship

F6: set fire to your ship - affects only your ship

F7: spawn target dummy

F8: spawn mobile targat dummy

F9: spawn shooting target dummy

F10: kill all target dummies

However there is no limit on how many times you can die in practice mode.

 

There is pros and cons to using either steam voice chat (witch what the game uses) or Teamspeak.

With implemented steam voice service, the channels are much less clutered than TS would get (especialy in anything larger than 2v2 witch it the format most competitive events work)- but in Ts you can more easily reconstruct the comunitation issues that might happen (it is imperative that everyone on team knows the general plan and what is happening - especialy the captains and the main engineer).

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1. TeamSpeak didn't really work out for me. During the battle, TS was just a constant stream of mumbles of different volumes. After I turned it off, I found it much easier to focus on the task at hand.

 

2. Experience or no, there are some players who can see everything before its gonna happen and the pilot hardly needs to say anything beyond his planned attack vectors. There are also those with tunnel vision (gunners fall into this mainly). Ever have a gunner say his gun was broken while the entire ship was on fire? Ever have an engineer fix something before you could finish the sentence? Id like to see us change our mentality from "that is broke" to "this is what I'm fixing".

 

3. It felt like we were straining at a leash or trying to force a cube into the round hole. Ill be the first to admit, I'm horrible at long distance shots. I can pull off an occasional miracle but my hands shake like hell (been in the service too long). Add in the lack of visibility and I am literally throwing rocks at the moon through a rain cloud. I understand we were training to become more flexible but I could see what would have been different had we played to our strengths.

 

This may sound like a lot of complaining but I just wanted to give a honest AAR. I don't think I've ever not had an absolute blast. Its just a lot of fun to hang out with you guys and ship combat has been a fantasy of mine since childhood. Keep being awesome, gentlemen!

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3. It felt like we were straining at a leash or trying to force a cube into the round hole. Ill be the first to admit, I'm horrible at long distance shots. I can pull off an occasional miracle but my hands shake like hell (been in the service too long). Add in the lack of visibility and I am literally throwing rocks at the moon through a rain cloud. I understand we were training to become more flexible but I could see what would have been different had we played to our strengths.

Yes, some of us might be better suited for close-range combat and others for long-range.

Also, some of the weapons shoot straight for miles while others describe great archs that require guessing for successful shots.

When we form a squad, it would benefit us to have a default strategy regarding which ships get close or remain far, and then crew the ships according to our playstyles.

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Yes, some of us might be better suited for close-range combat and others for long-range.

Also, some of the weapons shoot straight for miles while others describe great archs that require guessing for successful shots.

When we form a squad, it would benefit us to have a default strategy regarding which ships get close or remain far, and then crew the ships according to our playstyles.

And this is why we train, me and the other officers are watching and monitoring, and everyone will be assigned a main and a backup role tailored after their strenghts and weaknesses!

Niels Juel

AJSA Training officer

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Update on the event from the 14/06/14

 

I will start with what i think that went right this time =D

First of all, thank you very much to all officers who have provided feedback on the games. I know it was more intense at the beginning and less at the end as we lacked time and people have started to leave, but i personally have learnt a lot and i loved the way it was a dialog where everyone have contributed. I think it was perfect the way we did, and i think we should keep up with it.

 

I will break down what i want to see in our future training into a several points as follows:

  • We need a more concentrated theme to our training. That said, we first need to identify our "Weak links" (And by no means i am trying to sound offensive... I personally suck at gunning, specially at arching weapons like the mortar and such) and find a way to train them. Be it a day for new/inexperienced pilots, engineers or gunners.

As a suggestion i would say it will be smart to use the practice feature of the game, where you can damage your own ship as well as adding targets in the form of dummies for training gunners. The goal is not winning a game as such but to actually learn the different game mechanics and become better (So that in real game scenario our team as a whole will operate better). 

Aside from that, we might have time dedication to each type of training. I would bring an example:

Lets say some people want to get better at engineering. For that we will use anyone who counts himself as a decent pilot in a 2v2 scenario. 

  1. First option is an actual game, but for training purpose we will not try to destroy the ships we are against, but try and damage as many components as possible. If armor is damaged make sure not to shoot too much over the hull as it will break the point of training engineering priorities. For chem spray usage training - Make sure the ships are close enough to each other and use only flamers or flares with incendiary rounds. That way each engagement the engineers would learn when is best to use chem spray, as well as when not to use a mallet to repair a part in order for chem spray to be applied first.
  2.  
  3. Second option would be practice mode and it is the easiest to use because if the "Enemy" ship cannot do the damage to your ship, the captain can do it himself just for the purpose of training. As well as it is easier to set time for practicing rather then having a game with a win/lose objective.

 

  • Feedback from fellow class users. What i mean by this is that fellow engineers or gunners can see what other crew members are doing. It will be really good if they can at the end of each game or during the game to advice their fellow trainees what is best to do. 

A little elaboration on this topic would be me taking an example from today's match. Matillald several times cried out on how i used the mallet tool on the armor when we were in flamer range and he couldn't chem spray the component as a result of the 9 second cool down. I have learnt not to use my mallet on the third time, but it could be even faster (Specially with newer engineers) if he would say "If the <Insert part here> is on fire, wait for me to use chem spray before fixing it". Same can be said about guns. If i am playing an engineer and i see someone not leading with the hades, i could correct the gunner on the spot on where should he shoot next time to compensate for ships moving.

 

  • We should try to work on team co-ordination as in between different ships. Best case scenario is full 4 ships by our members, but if it is not possible i would say breaking into 2 groups and play with random people in a 2v2 as well as having at least 1 officer as a spectator on each group to make sure they receive the feedback after the match.

What i am trying to accomplish by this suggestion is the force of communication within the ship as well as getting accustomed with the "Captain talk" feature of the game as the only means of speaking to the other ship. This "practice" is meant to  encourage co-operation and co-ordination in mid battle on a new scale. We should aim for 5-0 wins at all times (Unless the enemy team is really good) throughout good communication and positioning of the ships against the enemy as well as "Proceed/Retreat" tactics. 

What i am trying to say basically is force and practice good communication between ships. I know we are communicating well already, and at the same time i have been playing 1 or even 2 matches when the other captain didn't speak to me even once. I am trying to find a way to "fix" this kind of behavior. The best example of it working well would be our last match, where me and Gaarik were always talking to each other to make sure he compensates for my weak hull as a Spire. The task have been extremely hard as the enemy team did not giving us any slack by charging us from the sides and keeping us at close range while leaving 1 ship against Gaarik to keep him away from providing reinforcement. We went to as much details as to whom we are going to shoot at, as well as when i would swap targets or when Gaarik told me he is going to chase an enemy. This is the sort of communication i am looking for as being a default thing in our future games =)

 

I must apologize for the wall of text i've put here, but i do not know how to write feedback any other way. I were trying to color code it this time so it is a bit easier to distinguish between the point and the suggestion on how to achieve it and the example parts. Hope it helps (Please do tell me if it doesn't)

Feel free to comment and correct my suggestions as i would be glad to know your opinion on my suggestions.

I guess this is all for our last session of training =) And it was a blast as always.

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There is really only one thing that I see pop up consistently from my viewpoint. That blasted SEP field from Hitchhikers Guide. When I say in voice chat "I need help on X deck" or "I need repairs on the Armor" I very rarely receive assistance. I know they heard me, I have a rather distinctive voice and my mic is pretty good. They must have thought "somebody better get on that" and continued to stare down a sight post. It stops being Somebody Else's Problem when we crash and burn. Other than that, my previous post is still very much valid.

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Hi,

I think we could have a better end-of-match feedback if we first identify what happened and then try to find what went wrong in each skirmish.
Giving an oppinion on what worked out right and what didn't is harder if we take the whole battle as one large chunk. Separating it into skirmishes makes it easier.

We should consider the characteristics of the ships and weapon setups, and provide feedback for that.
For example, the first skirmish of the first battle was absolutely onesided, for the Piramidion and Galleon got divided, and both Mobula and Junker packed nice long-ranged weapons.

We should then consider maneuverability, concealment and positioning of the ships.
For example, between the first and second skirmishes during the first battle, some ships got damage due to dustclouds. That gave away mostly the strategy taken by that team: hide within a cloud and ambush.
As another example, in the second battle, all skirmishes were won by positioning the enmies in front of the Piramidions.
Still, the best strategy was shown during the final assault: After having both Piramidions destroyed and guessing the Goldfish would remain in the same place, both ships moved separately, one close to the ground and using the terrain as cover, while the other moved high and hidden by clouds. The moment the second ship was discovered, both Piramids charged forward and focused fire, winning the match.

We should try to establish approaches and try if they work.
During the first battle, Artose and me barely exchanged words. I understood his ship and weapon choice, and the strategy flowed naturally from there.
During the second battle, a lot more conversation went through the captain channel, yet execution of the planned strategies didn't live up to expectations.
The point here is not that communication is not the key. Communication is important. But the actual key is knowing one's place in combat, and that requires knowledge of the ships, the weapons and the maps; and knowing what your teammates, both in-ship and off-ship, are going to do; then, reading the map, locating the enemy, anticipating their actions and reacting to neutralize their threats. That last one is situational awareness, and it is developed through practice.
And communication can be a key element to adjusting strategies and mantaining that awareness during combat.

One last comment.
Of course the game is intense, and of course we need to hone our skills if we want to go competitive. But meassure your comments according to the one they're aimed at. The skills developed through over 10 levels in the classes and over a hundred hours can't be imparted through a 3-minutes crash-course of shouting through the mic.

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I take egineering very seriously, and take pride of tanking like a baws, and I sometimes get overexcited when things interfeer with my job (be it lag, or players not apearing not to be listening to me, when it would increase eficciency of the maintinence) and I appologise for faising voice in ingame chat.

On the topic of in-game voicechat: it's based on Steam Voice chat service, and it's occassionaly derpy and I can't be heard well enough to understood (I have lost many a pug match, becouse I couldn't command my pug team thru it) - for that reason I prefer to use specialised voice solutions (like TeamSpeak for example).

Fighting flamers is something every GoIO player has to learn. Easiest way to deal with flamer is effective use of chemspray. Balloon and Armour allways need to be chemsprayed when in brawling range with an enemy ship that has a flamer (even if it's not a main gun it will be used - sooner of later). Balloon and Armour being the largest components are guaranteed to be receiving most fire stacks and are most vulnerable to it. When rebuilding these 2 components while in flamer range the first tool used after rebuild is complete is the chemspray, only after that you use mallet. Guns and engines are very resistant to fire damage and can be chemsprayed after flaming has started, but be carefull not to get more than 7 stacks or weapon won't be usable. Formula for damage of fire stacks damage is:

8+(2* the number of fire stacks)  - that is damage before the component modifiers. If you are tanking hull or balloon witch is being flamed the rotation is: chemspray>mallet>mallet rinse&repeat (chem spray lasts 20seconds).

Flamer is in competitive generaly used, as the secondary weapon instead of a primary weapon because, as a main weapon it deals next to nothing to chemsprayed components, while as a secondary weapon iit can be used after enemy was forced to leave some key components without chemspray - while at the same time forcing enemy team to bring at least 2 fire fighting tools(never bring 2 extinguishers) and that many buff-hammers less.

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I take egineering very seriously, and take pride of tanking like a baws, and I sometimes get overexcited when things interfeer with my job (be it lag, or players not apearing not to be listening to me, when it would increase eficciency of the maintinence) and I appologise for faising voice in ingame chat.

 

Under no circumstances i've mentioned your frustration as a bad thing! It was a learning experience for me and i personally am really glad you have mentioned it =)

 

Thank you very much on the little guide here =)

Though i think we should start a whole new guide-like thread or guides for different things (Like guides for engineers in a separate topic to gunners and then to handling different ships like Puntosmx did for us with the Goldfish =)

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Event feedback from the 28th of June:

 

First of all, you guys rock! XD I just love how seriously you are taking it! And how much you take from our feedback here! Holy crap... Most people would just skip it all, or not utilize the things that are being said because they cannot be bothered.

The latest event was magnificent. We were actually learning tricks and tips on how to do things and even more so it was timed. I loved it. I would like to apologize I have left mid way, but it was to test the new queue system developed by Muse to solve the "Lobbies of Icarus" like Niels calls them, so everyone has to wait less. (And yes don't worry... They have gotten a 3 hour read from me as well about it XD so it's not only our officers who suffer from my sticky fingers and typing).

 

Little points to improve from the last time as I see them if you don't mind =] (And i will do them at the same color format for the ease of read as in my point to improve will be in green, suggestions on how to improve it in orange and examples from what have happen in red)

 

  • Explaining what will be the point of the practice.

It will be cool to know what exactly we are aiming for. The sandbox environment was great for what you guys have done today and I loved it, however it felt a bit chaotic. What I would suggest doing is instead of saying "Alright - Everyone take this ship and lets start", better say something like "The target of this next practice will be to teach everyone how to maneuver around the Pyramidion" and then we know what to anticipate as well as probably perform the task better because I believe people would start thinking of tricks and jumps before the match starts rather than at the second when you explain what exactly do you want.

 

  • Setting an example

The practice we have had was fun and all, but i still feel it was slightly lacking. I think that there should have been at least 1 person on each ship that can set an example. I loved the way BlackOpsElf did it. I love that he have set the time and wanted us to deal with it as well as setting a small competition to it by making people say out loud when they are done. It was perfect. What was lacking is after everyone is done... There should have been 1 person that runs in the "Correct" route and shows everyone how it was supposed to be done. So if there are players on 1 ship that did not know how to get to the rear engine from the top left gun the most efficient way and didn't see exactly how their team mates done it... At least so they can see how it is properly done and then repeat the process just to make sure they understand. I think it was an important part of this training that we have missed this time.

 

  • It's time for breaking down the training before we start it, or even as far back as planning the event to begin with.

It almost feels (And i am truly sorry if I am wrong) that the officers have an idea of what they want to do overall, but the execution of this idea comes on the spot. I believe that when the event is being planned we should set the goals of what exactly will be done on that practice session (Like "We focus on parkour, tool efficiency, practicing cool downs and parts priority. Then it's a free match") and then including it in the event description. I believe that this will create more order into the entire thing and make BlackOpsElf to say less sentences like "The longer we stay in lobby the longer we don't do anything" (Or at least it's almost the quote of what he said).

 

Unfortunately this time this is all I have to say as my mind is being mixed between 2 feedbacks. I am sorry in advance if this time I sound more like picking at small things than before, but all in all it also means that the last training practically nailed it =D and I am very satisfied with how it went. I believe we should have more of "Catch the squid" kind of practice because I personally suck at gunning and I believe there might be other people too who might need the practice.

 

Thanks for your time guys! =D 

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Hey everybody. I want to thank all of you for the amazing event and Geze for pointing out some good criticism. I agree on the most part of it.

It would be great if more people would join the steam group so they see when the event starts and we can start faster. Or we could have a little skirmish in the time we wait for everybody to come online.

 

I thought of some points for future lessons. What i would love to learn is:

-the different ships (what are the pros and cons)

-the different weapon loadouts/combinations (what is the best for which ship/what works and what doesnt)

-how to manouver which ship and the different roles on every ship, like 1 engineer on top and 1 on the lower deck on the pyramidion.

 

Looking forward to fly with you guys/girls  :)

 

Edit 30.06.: Yesterday i played some more GOIO and found out that you can repair the main engine on the Pyramidion from below so you actually never have to go up the stairs. Only if you have to repair the gun. I think that makes it a lot easier. I thought it would be nice to share this.

Btw its the same with the balloon on the Junker.

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Hi guys, 

 

First off, Geze, you rock at summing up things, dont know how this would go without you here! so pat yourself on the back!!

 

Second, I want to apologize for not showing up today, I had to go back to Denmark for the weekend as my dad is in the hospital, he collapsed yesterday with what looked like a stroke, turns out it was a minor clot in his heart, he is awake and well enough to complain about the hospital food, I just got home to my moms place and will head straight to bed.

 

 I should be back again tomorrow Sunday (some time after 20:00 UTC+2) if anyone wants to get some pointers for correct runs for some of the different ships!

 

Niels Juel

Training officer

AJSA Guns of Icarus

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Sirrobert,

I definitely appreciate your situation. One of our bigger issues is trying to schedule events to get everyone in that we can, but having players from all over the globe means it's almost impossible to get everyone covered. We would definitely appreciate ideas and suggestions from anyone. We don't have the player turnout or the staff to host multiple events effectively, so we really need some fresh ideas.

As always, thank you everyone for the feedback.

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On that note, I do have some actual feedback:

Make it a little clearer when the events are. I didn't even know there was one. It's not on the event callander, and there is no forum here to announce it

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Hi guys

 

Speaking of ship learning, I will be online around 7pm (5pm utc)today, and will be going over the Pyra if anyone is interested.

 

 I also plan on making a couple of youtube vids of standard ship parkour for the different ships so people who cant make it will have some reference material.

 

 

Niels Juel

Training officer

AJSA Guns of Icarue online

Geze, Misterjablez, Artose and 1 other like this

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Make it a little clearer when the events are. I didn't even know there was one. It's not on the event callander, and there is no forum here to announce it

As said before, join the steam group. Thats the easiest way.

 

Im interested Niels. But i would prefer to play actual games while learning. More like combat training with the points in mind i mentioned earlier.

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As said before, join the steam group. Thats the easiest way.

 

Im interested Niels. But i would prefer to play actual games while learning. More like combat training with the points in mind i mentioned earlier.

The plan was to go over the different things, and then practice them in real combat, and then go over what we have learned and what can be improved!

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The training with Niels was pretty awesome! He is a really nice guy and his teaching skills are superp. We had some good fun on our ship. I really appreciated it. Thanks to all who participated and until the next time.

- Fliegerhorst

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