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Variloh

Can piracy be a answer to overhyped AAA games?

59 posts in this topic

Hi guys,

Once again, I bring you this weeks "Gamer Mind" Topic, which will be discussed this thursday at 10 GMT + 2, back to its original time slot by popular demand. You can watch the show live or as a rerun on www.twitch.tv/variloh And if youd like to participate contact me via here, twitch, steam (variloh) or @variloh on twitter.

We got a good one for ya this time, a topic i have been asked since the first episode to do, Piracy in gaming. Of course this topic has been discussed a ton in the past, but id like to offer a little spin: We have talked alot on the show about overhyped underachieving games that are preordered. so i ask you, can piracy be a fair response to these companies who continue to sell us one thing and deliver another? Or is this a black and white topic? post youe opinons below!

 

PS: i post this in the general discussion since i want all members of the AJSA from different games to participate, as well as the discusion topic is pretty open and is not about my channel, which is why i post it here and NOT on the user created section (plus it DOES say discuss "anything and everything" here   :) )
 
GregoryKl and AndrewMit like this

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My immediate reaction is no-  

Firstly whether we like it or not an increase in Piracy would result in an increase in DRM as publishers try to ensure that people are paying for their games. 

Secondly if it's a crap game why go to the bother of pirating it?

Thirdly if we are victims of over-hype then we have to operate a degree of personal responsibility. Publishers are always going to hype their games and push for the huge ads and demos.

What I think we need to do as a community is get our representatives like Angry Joe, Penny Arcade and the Games Media like IGN and Gamespot to ask pointed and difficult questions to developers and publishers. 

Really simple ones like - "That E3 demo what was that running on?" or "Is this how the final game will look on Xbox/PS4/PC ?"

Of course the issue here is that Game sites in particular rely on those same publishers providing them advertising revenue. What we need frankly are more 'Guerilla' sites gaining support and asking tough questions to publishers about their products BEFORE RELEASE. 

That said we should also look into making games publishers more accountable for their marketing - Aliens Colonial Marines is an example of false advertising if I ever saw one and SEGA and Gearbox should have provided refunds for every preorder.

If we want the industry to change then we the gamers need to change it by voting with our wallets and saying 'This is not good enough and we are not going to play your game' not 'Oh this game is okay I just don't fancy paying for it right now.'

Quick Edit: One of my favourite things from E3 last year was Joe asking Major Nelson genuinely tough questions about the Xbox One's DRM and Always on announcements. MN clearly hated this kind of honest questioning. More of this from everyone in games please.

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I think the best answer to over-hyped AAA games is to not pre-order them or at best, not buy them.  I've heard that to a company like EA, Ubisoft et al, the first 1-2 weeks of sales is statistically the most important to them... its where wallets speak the loudest to such companies.  So if you're very hesitant to support a company's practices (like always online DRM), then just hold off on buying it for a while... play something else.  Come back a few weeks, after the server problems die down and patches have been applied.

 

I'm not commending video game piracy at all, but I'm attempting to explain some of the reasoning behind it... reasons can include:

- Conveniance - some people might pirate it when it's not available in their region or when they deem DRM to be excessive

- Price - some people might have reservations about the pricing (or they can't afford it), so they resort to this option

- lulz - a number of people pirate for the hell of it, whether its available in their region or not and whether its a reasonable price or not

 

I think that with the advent of steam and digital distribution platforms, it has converted a good number of pirates to become legit customers once more, since they have a more convenient and direct method to obtain their games.  The pricing is good (and can be awesome, like in a couple of days :-3), distribution is fast and (most of the time) there's little to no DRM (<3 GOG)... nowadays, there isn't much of an incentive to go out of your way and risk the law just to get the same game that you can get for very cheap over steam, desura, gmg, gog and many other stores.

 

Also, with the advent and the subsequent expansion of indie gaming, piracy can be a somewhat significant threat to the future of some of these indie developers that self-publish.... if you want to feel their pain... just pirate game dev tycoon and see what happens :-3

 

This is wrong imo... game dev tycoon is an indie game for $7.99 on release date.  This is the usage stats on day 1:

1day.png

 

At least the pirates where in for a shock:

priate-message.png

 

The irony... dem tears:

itruinsme.png

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Umm how about NOT being a weak person and boycotting them instead? If you don't want overhyped AAA games to get your money, why would you take the easy way out? It doesn't take any strength to pirate anything, but what does take strength is boycotting. Not playing the game, doesn't kill you. 

The only way I understand pirating is when you've gotten burned by games and you try the game out, and if you complete the game you buy it. THAT is the only way pirating is OK. If you play through the game and were like "I didn't like this-this point", then why did you even play it?! I usually pirate games, and games that I didn't like I dropped and uninstalled without completing them. But games that I liked I always buy. D:

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Due to the amount of people pirating for a myriad of reasons, pirating something to make a statement almost never works... in fact, you feed the thing you're trying to destroy... the target(s) of your boycott will label you as a pirate... period.  No matter what you'll tell them, no matter how many petitions or reddit posts you make, you'll be a pirate in their eyes... a statistic that's discussed in their board meetings to justify the DRM they have on their games... and justify the increase of DRM and use of always on-line DRM.

 

As for trying before buying, demos can help, but I prefer to check out youtube LP's and reviews before buying.

 

There are so many games out there on so many platforms that if you want to boycott a game, you can simply play something else.

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Piracy is never right. I suppose you can make a case for super old games that basically don't exist on the market anymore, but generally speaking, if you don't want to buy it, you don't get to play it. The companies don't owe you anything.

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Well, if you pirate these games means that the companies lose money, which means they dont have such a high budget to make games, which means that they cant deliver a perfect game. So piracy kinda started it. "From a certain point of view" - Ben Kenobi/Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Well, if you pirate these games means that the companies lose money, which means they dont have such a high budget to make games, which means that they cant deliver a perfect game. So piracy kinda started it. "From a certain point of view" - Ben Kenobi/Obi-Wan Kenobi

Well i'm pretty certain that piracy didn't start BF4 or the Assassin's creed 5's female character thing. Most of the time what started this was greed, not piracy. Even if they'd get all the money from pirates, they'd still rush the games out because the market will be willing to buy the games anyway, and they'll make the games as cheap as possible, so that the return would be as high as possible.. All they do vs piracy is DRM, piracy has no affect on the quality of AAA games, because AAA games are AAA games cause they HAVE that money to properly make a big game. For indies piracy usually isn't a thing either because the indie game is usually released with self-funding and they'll make it as big as they can, piracy didn't play a part in that either (That is non early-access indie games).

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Largely I would say no, if it is overhyped and under expectations then why bother? Those who want to play it regardless will pay for it and those who do not will not play it.

 

Plus Piracy almost never (from what I hear) works out in the long run, so I would say no.

 

The companies could also do something like these guys to those who do Pirate so it also would not work out.

 

http://ah.roosterteeth.com/archive/?id=8912&v=more

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If you are disapointed in a game, wait a few weeks before you buy it.

That'll send a clear enough message to publishers.

 

Piracy is, in my opinion, only a viable option if it's easier to pirate than it is to actually to buy it. For example when there is so much DRM that it makes the game a major hassle to play.

For example Simcity, where you can easely play whenver YOU want if you pirated it, but have to pray that the servers are up if you actually bought it. That kind of DRM doesn't stop piracy. It only makes it worse

 

Convinience is the best way to fight pirates. For example look at the music industry. The rise of extremely easy to use services like Itunes have made pirate services like Limewire, with it's risk of virusses and not knowing if you get a good version and what not, no longer worth it.

Most people rather pay a little for convinience, than having to put up with the hassle of piracy.

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Piracy is plain wrong. Unless you pirate music from a guy who is dead, then fine, but I would never pirate video games. Gotta support the dev, and plus lots of games (especially old) know if you pirated the game and do things in the game to fuck you up. In one Pokemon game nintendo put (in Pirated versions) "Buy the game or die". A little harsh but, I don't like the pirating of games.

 

And if devs see that their customers just pirate games they will just only develop on consoles where games can't (usually) be pirated, OR, they'll just stop making games.

 

So no.

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"Legit" reasons for pirating are pretty much dying. You can these days get almost all games ever made for PC from either Steam or GoG and for a decent price.

And Steam is the second biggest reason I no longer pirate. Biggest reason being growing up.

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And Steam is the second biggest reason I no longer pirate.

 

and GOG is the third biggest reason :-3

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My opinion? Piracy is wrong, period. Black and White. -DR

 

Not everyone shares your opinion. "Right" and "wrong" are just abstract concepts that have little meaning if you are unwilling or unable to force your will on to others and make them conform to your wishes.

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Yeah that's probably why he said it was just his opinion.

Also right and wrong are generally considered constructs of societal norms rather than individual constructs on the acceptable and the unacceptable. 

Also not a philosophical discussion on the essence of right and wrong. 

Talkin' about games an' shit.

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*Hold out hand*

Have we met? I'm Winnum I'm an insufferable prick!

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Well, since almost everyone here has gone with the "piracy is bad", "piracy is shit" thing, let me explain you this. I defend piracy in a sense. I think that the piracy became an answer to the over-the-top prices that some games get, deservingly or not. I myself what I do is this. I pirate the games, and if I find them on a store, I buy them after! After I buy them, I install the legit version, remove the pirated one, and tada, I enjoy it. Call me idealist, or kid, but I think the piracy is a new way of thinking stuff out. We come with the stereotypical image of the game pirate as an obnoxious idiot that doesnt want to pay for games. What if there's a sector on there that actually buys them after playing them through the pirated version? Also, Pirated versions dont have the full features of a game, multiplayer, extras, etc. Thats why I think most of those people end up buying the game because they want to see the extras and multiplayer, like I did with Space Marine. I pirated it, but now I got the legit version, and im playing Multiplayer tons of times there. So well, I think that kind of piracy is good to a certain degree. 

Variloh likes this

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Well, since almost everyone here has gone with the "piracy is bad", "piracy is shit" thing, let me explain you this. I defend piracy in a sense. I think that the piracy became an answer to the over-the-top prices that some games get, deservingly or not. I myself what I do is this. I pirate the games, and if I find them on a store, I buy them after! After I buy them, I install the legit version, remove the pirated one, and tada, I enjoy it. Call me idealist, or kid, but I think the piracy is a new way of thinking stuff out. We come with the stereotypical image of the game pirate as an obnoxious idiot that doesnt want to pay for games. What if there's a sector on there that actually buys them after playing them through the pirated version? Also, Pirated versions dont have the full features of a game, multiplayer, extras, etc. Thats why I think most of those people end up buying the game because they want to see the extras and multiplayer, like I did with Space Marine. I pirated it, but now I got the legit version, and im playing Multiplayer tons of times there. So well, I think that kind of piracy is good to a certain degree. 

Over the top prices aren't a reason why you should have your hands on a game. You can wait for it to go on sale, which it will. You don't need to instantly play it.

But your other point of "trying the game out" and "buying the game" is good. But the point is you need to buy the game soon after you play it, not wait for it to go on sale, because you already played it  at the time when the price was what it was, and hell you need to support games that you like. Paying less for a game for no good reason when you played it at release date, is kinda douchy.. The date when you finish playing it or whatever, is at least the time when you should buy the game.. Not playing it at release date doesn't kill you.

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Hmm interesting point. But oh well, the debate will go on and on for now. I always buy the game as soon as I finish it, so I can enjoy the full experience of it. 

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"Legit" reasons for pirating are pretty much dying.

Depends on what you're pirating. Japanese Eroge makers for some reason or another won't sell their games outside of Japan. Even when I try to buy it legally from DLSite I can't because I need a Japanese Credit Card or something. Importing it will most likely get it stuck in customs too. A few of them get localized, but not all of them do. Not to mention the ones that do are few and far between, and some of the good titles don't get localized at all. How else am I supposed to get my fix from their weekly releases if not by dubious means?

 

But as far as AAA video games go, piracy will always be seen by the game companies as a problem and not the solution to something. People are defending it by saying that those who pirate wouldn't have bought the game anyway. Though that may be true in some cases, there could of course be a case that would say otherwise. Take my example with trying to buy an Eroge. I was already willing to give them money for it, and it's them that's pretty much rejecting me. Because of this, they lost a sale, and now I have to pirate the game to play it.

 

One of the reasons I can think of that pirating AAA games for a cause doesn't work is that the company isn't able to tell who's doing it for what reason. They have no means to tell who's pirating it because they're trying to send a message and who's doing it just so they don't have to pay for it. Not to say that if they were able to differentiate between the two that they'd care of course.

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As many people said before me, the only way to defeat piracy is to offer a better service than pirates do.

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There's 2 sides to debating piracy; The legal ground, and the moral.

 

Legally, piracy cannot be defended on any grounds. Piracy is theft, and that's that.

 

Morally however, is another thing entirely. In the 80s for example, buying a simple vinyl record from a country behind the Iron Curtain (I got this from an old Iron Maiden documentary) would cost you almost your entire paycheck. In those cases, I believe piracy can be defended.

But reasons like that are gradually shrinking, like someone else mentioned. People today think that 60 Dollars is too much for a game, but I don't believe It's so expensive as to excuse piracy. If you can't afford something, that does not give you any right to simply acquire it illegally, for free. A Ferrari Is pretty fucking expensive too, and I'd love one, but that doesn't mean I can just steal one

 

Which sort of leads me onto another point; I think some pirates believe that the disconnect between physical, and electronic products Is an excuse for them to steal non-physical products.

Psychologically It makes sense; Because you don't have something you can physically hold in your hand, but merely a file on your computer, It sort of lessens the impact that you have, in effect, comitted theft. Though I don't believe that's any kind of excuse.

 

To summarize, Legally, It's black and white. Don't steal. Morally though, is more of a grey area. Well, like dark grey, light black area.

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Legally, piracy cannot be defended on any grounds. Piracy is theft, and that's that.

Pirates have defended that Piracy isn't theft since the original is still there, and that they're making a copy.

 

Just remembered that there's a few Jimquisition videos about Piracy (Strong Language Warning):

 

 

 

 

Companies will always see it as a problem that needs fixing. If they deem that piracy has become bad enough, they'll find a way to fight it, and fail in doing so *coughDRMcough* or not releasing something on a platform that has high piracy rates. They're not going to start making better non-hyped products because of piracy.

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