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Jitterdoomer

Indie FPS game Paranautical Activity has been removed on Steam after the dev sent out death threats to Gabe Newell

42 posts in this topic

Everyone moans about the way AAA devs treat thier customers and franchises, but with Phil Fish being such arrogant knob, one allegedly selling her body for possitve review, some broken ass shitty games appearing on steam to rip people off and now this, if anything the indie community is coming of a hell of allot worse.

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The game was pretty decent tho. Nice music, good gameplay.
Kinda sad that the devs are insane.

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People say a lot of things when they get mad but c'mon...how the hell can you threaten people like that, specially someone like Gaben. Gaben is so bad ass tho. The guy threatens to kill him and Gaben just removes his game from Steam.

It's like he sent a message to Mike, "Come at me bro, I just removed your game!"

 

 

Best part of the whole article is when he says he didn't mean to actually kill him for real. Yeah gaming has been pretty weird lately. 

 

Also, gives me another reason to stay off of Twitter. Now I got about 100 reasons to never use it.

Jitterdoomer and Muddy-Chan like this

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Everyone moans about the way AAA devs treat thier customers and franchises, but with Phil Fish being such arrogant knob, one allegedly selling her body for possitve review, some broken ass shitty games appearing on steam to rip people off and now this, if anything the indie community is coming of a hell of allot worse.

No, man... no.

Phil Fish is a huge tool, but that doesn't affect the quality of his game. And I doubt the majority of his customers even know about it. We do on this forum, but for every 10 of us, there are a million gamers out there, just doing their thing and not giving a flying f about twitter.

Zoe Quinn might be engaging in unethical activity, but again, doesn't affect the quality of her game.

As for broken games, sure. That's the crux of the argument against AAA titles. Misinformation, poor quality, and flat out lies to consumers are never okay. Fuck that noise.

This guy? Yeah, same as Phil and Zoe. His awful, abrasive personality (if that's the case, I don't know the guy) doesn't affect his game in the slightest, though. Now, I might wait til this game is in a humble bundle, and I may set his share to $0 and give it to charity instead, but I will take a thousand cases of this over a developer/publisher that straight up lies to my face and essentially steals my money.

Sol Omega likes this

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"Sent out death threats"? You mean sent out a angry tweet? In our current society people are really thoughtless with their tweets and for your information Steam has fucked Paranautical activity for MANY different times and there´s a limit when one breaks. You´re free to do some research on what those guys had to go through.

This whole situation is bonkers. 1 of the devs fucks up and the teams whole livelyhood is effed. This game wasn´t developed by only 1 guy where the 1 guy will have to bear the responsibility himself. Now their whole career is fucked and developers who made a good game will need to stop making games..

What was supposed to be a joyous experience for the PA developers with their game leaving early access, started with Steam fucking up on their end (Another time where Steam fucked the devs over.). And then the dev just bursted out (And he has now apologized with no reply..) Steam doesn´t care and just says "Fuck off" and boom you´re out of the retailer who holds complete monopoly in the PC sales.

 

There´s no question that death threats are fucking stupid.. But apologies were said and instead of Valve saying "It´s ok we messed up as well" it just turned into "We were attacked so we fucked his whole livelyhood HAHAHAAHAHAH".. At the very least adults should understand here how fucked it is to lose your source of income and totally get fucked up in the industry you´ve worked in for a long time.

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People say a lot of things when they get mad but c'mon...how the hell can you threaten people like that, specially someone like Gaben. Gaben is so bad ass tho. The guy threatens to kill him and Gaben just removes his game from Steam.

It's like he sent a message to Mike, "Come at me bro, I just removed your game!"

Best part of the whole article is when he says he didn't mean to actually kill him for real. Yeah gaming has been pretty weird lately.

Also, gives me another reason to stay off of Twitter. Now I got about 100 reasons to never use it.

At the risk of getting off-topic and I'm sorry for being political to this thread, the Family Guy writer Alex Sulkin posted his controversial tweet three years ago that the Japanese would feel better by "googling up Pearl Harbor", which he almost got his ass fired by the production team and he suddenly deletes that tweet and apologized it, there are more trolls on Twitter who are posting stupid shit and it's sickening to the stomach. But thanks to that #GamerGate bullshit that is going on in Twitter, there are more idiotic people who want to spark a complete outrage and made the Twitter traffic to spike a lot more.

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"...juust like a mad dog, you bite the hand that feeds!"

When will people realize that when they're not anonymous on the internet anymore? They can't say shit like this anymore.

I can call my boss a total cunt in here and there would be no real-life consequences, but if I were to say do that on Facebook? Well, you can bet your ass I'd have an awkward conversation in her office the morning after.

Good rule of thumb: Don't be a cunt.

Jitterdoomer likes this

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^ Not everyone on Twitter and Facebook are cunts, but they're also spamming and trolling shit anonymously all over the place that are threatening to hack people's accounts, which is kinda scary.

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No, man... no.Phil Fish is a huge tool, but that doesn't affect the quality of his game. And I doubt the majority of his customers even know about it. We do on this forum, but for every 10 of us, there are a million gamers out there, just doing their thing and not giving a flying f about twitter.Zoe Quinn might be engaging in unethical activity, but again, doesn't affect the quality of her game.As for broken games, sure. That's the crux of the argument against AAA titles. Misinformation, poor quality, and flat out lies to consumers are never okay. Fuck that noise.This guy? Yeah, same as Phil and Zoe. His awful, abrasive personality (if that's the case, I don't know the guy) doesn't affect his game in the slightest, though. Now, I might wait til this game is in a humble bundle, and I may set his share to $0 and give it to charity instead, but I will take a thousand cases of this over a developer/publisher that straight up lies to my face and essentially steals my money.

I'm not saying that all, or even a significant portion of the independent developers are like this, I'm just pointing out a worrying attitude shift within it.

Plus, I don't wanna give money to people like Phil or Zoe anymore than Mr Capcom for on disk DLC and face it, telling your fans fuck you I'm taking you're money or selling sex is way worse locking Megaman as a playible character.

The quality of the games they put out is not the point. The point is that this stuff not any more acceptable from an independent developer than a AAA or first party, or at least it shouldn't be.

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with all the respect to all of your opinions, i think that dev should be fired.

 

(FYI you don't need to read this bit, skip to "likewise" if you're in a hurry) here's an example: 2 or something weeks ago i was parked in a bay in a car park, going about my business sorting some crap out in my glovebox inside my car. a car rolls up next to me in the other bay, and the wife of this guy in the back passenger seat, pushes her door open really hard and deliberately dents the side of my car.

 

i get out furious, yelling my head off, and examine the damage. while she pathetically is being sarcastic in her apologies, the husband goes "ahh it's ok my friend it's just a small scratch no worries" and walks off inside the building with her.

 

furious, after they left, i decided... "RIGHT"... took my car keys, and keyed the side of their car, got in, and drove off.

 

what i did was criminal damage with intentions of causing grief to someone else, when despite their piss poor apologies, was an accident. i could have demanded their insurance details, and got my scratch fixed out of their own expense. but no, i had to deal with them, negotiate with the police, and pay £150 to allow him to fix his scratch, leaving me with a scratch and no money gained to fix it.

 

likewise... instead of working with Valve / Steam to resolve the problems that were caused BY them, one guy decided to make death threats. No, the game rightfully so got removed from steam and he deserves every bit of grief, or even losing his job, for doing what he did.

 

there is no professionalism from that particular dev. in my opinion the company as a whole should publically apologise for their employee's actions, state that the behaviour is intolerable and unprofessional, that he has been dismissed, and they hope to continue to work with steam to resolve their issues and that they hope they can publish future games via steam with professionalism and no drama.

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I agree with Totalbiscuit there, the guy obviously wasn't "seding out death threats" he was venting heated anger over a mistake that might affect his sales since everyone hates early access, we've all "wanted to kill" someone sometime and we have probably verbalized it to vent too doesn't mean it was a real threat or anything.

Now obviously that doesn't mean, especially in the current landscape we're in, that he could or should have done it and the punishment seems fair. Then again it sucks for the rest of the team(as I understand it there was a team) to be punished by one asshole but that's basically how Twitter works now if you work for or with someone and you say shit you fuck everyone. People must learn to control themselves while under the all seeing brotherly eye of the internet. It's been feeling more and more like 1984 lately to be honest.

 

but I will take a thousand cases of this over a developer/publisher that straight up lies to my face and essentially steals my money.

I'll take EA over Phil Phish or Quinn any day of the week. I know what I'm dealing with at least, lack of support and patching for games(EA's major faults as I see 'em other than trying to serialize DICE's games lately) can be better than most of the stuff we've seem from certain indie figures. EA never outright insulted me either, it even apologized sometimes.

Jitterdoomer and Sol Omega like this

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Even when gamergate isnt being accused of doing anything for once, the article just HAS to point out how poor innocent folk have nothing to do vs the big bad gamergate that victimized em. =\.

Anyway, i agree, company should fire the idiot. And 3 hours!? You would think 3 hours is nothing when you spent so long working on something. I mean i got my paycheque a week late last time, and i wasnt fursing and screaming, good gosh.

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Definitely understand the decision to remove the game, it's unfortunate that one person on the team had to hurt the livelihood of the rest of his team. When you spend years working on one thing that your livelihood becomes dependent on you're likely to become much more protective of it and upset when something goes wrong, unfortunately when you have an outburst like that nothing good is going to come of it.

 

but with Phil Fish being such arrogant knob, one allegedly selling her body for possitve review, some broken ass shitty games appearing on steam to rip people off and now this, if anything the indie community is coming of a hell of allot worse.

Out of 1000s of indie developers because of one guy that has an ego problem, something that didn't happen, people who probably shouldn't really even be considered game developers abusing Steam, and this idiot you believe the indie community has become worse? None of the above things even effect their finished product or the customers who bought the game. I'm pretty sure if we started following every single person who worked on AAA games more closely we would see a lot of stupidity too, in addition to all the stupid things the more public figures already do or have done.

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This is madness.
I mean...... raging so much for a tag? The raging was explained for this was a "possible career ending mistake" from Valve's part, but the tag wasn't what took the game off Steam.
Also, it's still being sold in the Humble Bundle store and it seems the keys are valid.

Today, Mike posted a public latter where he gives up the company and making games, and claims he's already sold his shares.
http://codeavarice.com/post/100592709238/mike-is-leaving-code-avarice

But also, he claims that his work sucked anyway, and he muses about working at a Radioshack at some point.
https://twitter.com/SpooderW/status/524327596939440128
Now, why would anyone make games if it sucks so much?
Phill Fish also complained that making games was all crap and no glory.
Of course haters and trolls in all social media will bash any dev, studio and game. But as some people have commented (eg: Jay and Barnacules), if one plans to go out there and become a public figure, they have to grow a thick skin and let the attacks slide off, rather than dwelling in them.

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Well, the dude who made the angry tweet resigned. Maybe the game could make it back on Steam later on.

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Well, the dude who made the angry tweet resigned. Maybe the game could make it back on Steam later on.

Theorically, it could...... Depends on how much Valve holds their grudges.

Or maybe if they play it smart and make some sort of rebranding.....

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The lesson to be learned: never threaten our lord and master, the great Gaben.

tumblr_inline_mf9mq57Y821qmmsvq.gif

 

In all seriousness, really? Over a typoed tag? I understand getting upset to some degree about it, but the Twitter tirade and follow-up death threat, I just don't understand. I've never made a game so I don't know how stressful that is(or isn't)if/when something like this happens, but I'd still say this was a HUGE overreaction on Mulbeck's part. People like this and Phil Fish are the types that are assisting in the soiling the reputation of the gaming industry.

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https://twitter.com/SpooderW/status/524327596939440128

Now, why would anyone make games if it sucks so much?

 

You don´t seem to understand that money is involved and every minute that the wrong tag is on the front page, there will be people discarding the game as an early access game and not bother READ again. The moment you see it tagged as "Early access" you instantly place it in your mind as an early access title, and even when the tag gets changed you don´t care cause you read that it was a early access game so yeah.. The release is THE most important moment of a games time. Every single detail needs to be in place to do well (I recommend you watch Indie game the Movie on steam or something.. They really went deep into the emotions a dev goes through when the game gets released.).. What took the game off steam was Steam being Steam and not caring for the Indie side of things. Steam fucked over PA many times, and there´s so much that a person can take.. You can´t put yourself in their shoes so dismissing the emotions and stress they felt as "Making games isn´t that bad".. Is silly.

Working in games industry isn´t all fun and games.. The developing part can be fun yes, but everything related to the business side of things and all of the stress that comes from it can completely ruin everything you did. + The internet crowd is a bunch of dicks.. The vocal majority that runs around the internet are full of ignorant people who don´t care as long as they have a subject to hate on. Every word you say is recorded and can easily be taken out of context. The purely programming side of things isn´t easy either, but that´s the BEST part of making games. But for a indie dev who needs to actively read the feedback and talk to the community + handle the sales themselves and make sure that everything is good.. It can be a shitty place to work as... Especially for PA who had to worry if they can get bread on the table when Steam tried to make an example out of them by not letting them on steam initially.

 

And I do recommend watching "Indie game the movie".. There´s at least something to take from the movie in terms of emotions that for example the Meat boy crew had to go through when they were released on XBLA and they weren´t in the place that they were promised on the front page and they were freaking out.

 

My view is that Steam is more at fault in this because they promised a service, they fucked up on it, dev did a stupid mistake and vented on twitter with a line that the internet is over-sensitized towards and then Steam saw a chance to "Teach them a lesson".... I mean who of us hasn´t thought "Oh my fucking god I will KILL that mofo!" He just let his habbits of venting on twitter go out of control and said something stupid. Initially it was Steam itself that fucked up. If there wouldn´t be a problem from there side, there wouldn´t be a problem from the dev side. Steam didn´t hold their end of the bargain.. It´s as simple as that.

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i am pretty sure that as part of the early access / game publication contract with steam, that there is a clause that states not everything at all times will be picture perfect. i.e. if problems arise, steam will work to resolve them as they are obliged to do so.

 

mistakes happen, and steam resolved their mistake within 3 hours. gabe is the founder / owner of steam and a director at Vavle. he doesn't sit there running steam himself, he has hundreds if not thousands of staff doing it. some office worker was probably at fault for having that game on early access for the first 3 hours of full release.

 

the comment the dev made on twitter was not only unprofessional, but was provoking the wrong person. as stated in this thread, making games is not all fun and games... it's a business, one where money is to be made. you don't go around making BS comments on social media, including death threats, towards the very people you are trying to work with. period. im not even a businessman and i know that's not right.

 

a line has to be drawn. if it becomes acceptable to death threat the people you work with, what's next? what will be the norm in business relationships in 100 years? will there be a clause in contracts that states murder is allowed if they don't provide a specific level of service?

 

furthermore, what the dev said on twitter is illegal. it was an outright threat. gabe if he wants could even report him to police and be arrested for questioning. verbal abuse and threat to harm IS illegal, whether it's on the street or twitter, in many countries.

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Well, no, I don't go around my day thinking to myself that I want to kill people.
Yes, the streets would be nicer if there were no cars but mine, and there are some people whose only purpose in life seems to make other people's lives miserable, but my first thought is never "I hope you die".

I do understand that there's money involved, and that many indies depend on each game sold to make ends meet at the end of the week. It's not only game devs who live at the edge of starvation or eviction.
And I also understand how important it is for a game to be at the front page and how the "Early Access" tag drives customers away.
But that doesn't justify "venting on twitter" and expecting things to just be overlooked.
If you want to vent, get offline, man. As simple as that.
Or make it privately, in your facebook where you set up privacy of the post to only friends.
Or rather make a blander "I wanna kil someone" statement, rather than outright issuing a death threat towards a particular individual.
Twitting stuff is dangerous. If you don't believe it, ask Gawker Media.

Now, maybe I'm taking it from a clamer point of view.
But if you put an "unexperienced, hothead 20-year-old" on the lead, you must have a way to coach him out from tight spots like these twits.

fridgeracer likes this

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i am pretty sure that as part of the early access / game publication contract with steam, that there is a clause that states not everything at all times will be picture perfect. i.e. if problems arise, steam will work to resolve them as they are obliged to do so.

 

mistakes happen, and steam resolved their mistake within 3 hours. gabe is the founder / owner of steam and a director at Vavle. he doesn't sit there running steam himself, he has hundreds if not thousands of staff doing it. some office worker was probably at fault for having that game on early access for the first 3 hours of full release.

 

the comment the dev made on twitter was not only unprofessional, but was provoking the wrong person. as stated in this thread, making games is not all fun and games... it's a business, one where money is to be made. you don't go around making BS comments on social media, including death threats, towards the very people you are trying to work with. period. im not even a businessman and i know that's not right.

 

a line has to be drawn. if it becomes acceptable to death threat the people you work with, what's next? what will be the norm in business relationships in 100 years? will there be a clause in contracts that states murder is allowed if they don't provide a specific level of service?

 

furthermore, what the dev said on twitter is illegal. it was an outright threat. gabe if he wants could even report him to police and be arrested for questioning. verbal abuse and threat to harm IS illegal, whether it's on the street or twitter, in many countries.

Death Threats are Death Threats because you don´t know who makes them, why he makes them, and if he´s serious. That indie dev was obviously just pissed off.. Similar to saying "I´ll kill you for eating my noodles!" It´s not a real death threat. It´s not a REAL threat.

If angry joe jells jokingly "I will kill you Corporate commander!" and if there´s really a guy called "corporate commander" out there, then he could just as well report it to the police. Is that sensible? Pfft I don´t think so. The Indie dev that we talk about was previously tweeting about the issues they had. So in that CONTEXT it wasn´t a real Death Threat.

And most businesses DON´T have "If we fail to provide this service then xxxx" (Other when there´s a loss involved. Which that tag certainly did.. Not a direct loss ofc, but a potential one.) other than "If you have any issues please message us". Which for a indie dev isn´t too good.

 

 

Well, no, I don't go around my day thinking to myself that I want to kill people.

Yes, the streets would be nicer if there were no cars but mine, and there are some people whose only purpose in life seems to make other people's lives miserable, but my first thought is never "I hope you die".

I do understand that there's money involved, and that many indies depend on each game sold to make ends meet at the end of the week. It's not only game devs who live at the edge of starvation or eviction.

And I also understand how important it is for a game to be at the front page and how the "Early Access" tag drives customers away.

But that doesn't justify "venting on twitter" and expecting things to just be overlooked.

If you want to vent, get offline, man. As simple as that.

Or make it privately, in your facebook where you set up privacy of the post to only friends.

Or rather make a blander "I wanna kil someone" statement, rather than outright issuing a death threat towards a particular individual.

Twitting stuff is dangerous. If you don't believe it, ask Gawker Media.

Now, maybe I'm taking it from a clamer point of view.

But if you put an "unexperienced, hothead 20-year-old" on the lead, you must have a way to coach him out from tight spots like these twits.

You never thought that someone should just die? Well you´ve had a good childhood I guess?.. Because I´ve seen a lot of guys who I saw as trash while growing up.

You think you understand, but you don´t understand. The work is stressful as all hell and going to vent to their preferred place of "venting" is understandable.He happened to just write something that everyone sees as a thing that makes them a criminal and is over-sensitized against. If you see Angry Joe saying "I will fucking kill you" (Even as a jokey thing.) then we know that he´s joking. That guy had a large twitter following and a lot of guys knew what was going on with it. At the very least a lot of his own followers knew what was going on considering his previous tweets that happened before the "Death Threat".. When you´re stressed to exhaustion do you think your thinking is clear? Do you weigh every single option of what may happen? He made a mistake while pissed off. Now he paid the price.. I still see Steam as the big evil because they pretty much bullied the guy into doing what he did. And now are calling help from justice warriors that "He hit us back!". It sounds like a kindergarden shit, because it IS with how Steam has been behaving with them (I mean seriously keeping PA out of steam for 2~ years or so just to make an example out of them means that they had to live on bread crumbs for a long time.). 

But anyway this wouldn´t have happened if Valve did things well. Or if a guy didn´t accidentaly write something that everyone butt-clenches over.
 
Code Avarice also sent out a formal apology after the guy left the team http://codeavarice.com/post/100614593088/formal-apology-from-code-avarice
From there I also read that the other dev thinks similarily as I he also seemed to be thinking that Steam was unreasonable ("To err is only human" and "I don´t condone those actions but"). 

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This is a guy who's been fucked by steam over and over for a long period of time. It's understandable why he is so angry. It's definitely a stupid move but he is still no phil fish.

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