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mouseno4

When did gamers get so cheap?

38 posts in this topic

When it comes to MMO's, why are so many gamers so damned cheap?

 

They want every game to be free to play, free to download, free everything!

 

Completely unwilling to pay the price of an MMO, its subscription cost and will flat out disregard a game because of that - even when they will turn around and buy a $60 USD game.

 

A discussion on another website resulted from someone unwilling to buy an MMO and pay a subscription fee. We all know a subscription fee ensures much higher quality content than a free to play game can manage.

 

Take Final Fantasy XIV - A Realm Reborn for example. Non-sale price on Steam is currently $25 and includes 30 days game time. The game even has a 14 day trial you can freely download and play. Add in a 90 day set of game time on a recurring subscription and you JUST BARELY brake the standard price for a retail game in America - $60. It would roughly work out to be $68 approx. If you included the 14 days worth of trial time, you can get 134 days of game time plus the game itself. $68 for 134 days.

 

Can anyone say they will play the average $60 game for 134 days? Why people complain about a subscription fee or the price of an MMO game up front when it used to be the normal. /sigh

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Respectfully i disagree with this I am a avid mmorpg player and I am always willing to pay hundreds of dollars on them because I feel the game has earned my money. its not a issue that we are cheap its a matter of we shouldn't have to feel a need to pay 100$ before even playing the game. What if you spent 60$ on a new mmorpg you wanted to play and your computer says it cant run it? Then you need another new computer if you really want to play it that badly so that's thousands of dollars before you even hit PLAY. So in conclusion it's not that we are cheap its a matter of mmorpg players base their transactions based on trust from the provider. I would like to keep in mind that this is just MY opinion personally so if yours differs from mine hey that's completely fine I just wanted to throw in my two cents. :)

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I am not above paying for a game, especially an mmorpg, however I do take issue that if you but the game and things are still restricted because you need to spend an extra 15 dollars on this upgrade pack to use this special merchant. Or we do want a subscription (not terrible in my opinion is the game is decent enough to warrant it) but even if you subscribe you won't have access to everything unless you get the deluxe edition which is extra money.

 

Contrary to popular believe gamers are not made of money, if they see they can get a 60 dollar game with more to offer than a compartmentalized MMO they will spend what money they have. I think it is less about getting things cheap and getting more bang for you buck, while I have not kept up with the latest MMO's from what I hear most are not worth the subscription price so anyone doing the math you get more from a 60 dollar game than from an MMO. I am not above paying for things, it is the way of life. But they have to earn my money before I spend it, otherwise I would be broke.

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What if you spent 60$ on a new mmorpg you wanted to play and your computer says it cant run it?

Don't most MMOs give a free trial download or a free month of play after purchase? That situation would sound like the person who bought the games fault anyway.

 

 

When it comes to MMO's, why are so many gamers so damned cheap?

Pretty much a thing with all types of games now. Games have never been cheaper but people like to complain about the costs for some reason.

RavenKitsune likes this

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I only pay in to any kind of free to play game, be it MMO, MOBA, or whatever else, if I believe the game has to have these three points along with me wanting to actually play it long term.

 

A- Put forward an enjoyable experience to start with.

B- The company behind the game has plans for the future of the game and they coincide with what i'd like to see in the game, and they're actually trustworthy with how they implement new content and respond to player feedback.

and C- Isn't a broken, unoptimized, or brokenly unbalanced with no immediate changes.

 

If the game can check those points off, and doesnt have a poisonous or non-existent community, then i'm all for paying in to some type of microtransaction system or subscription because I know that money goes in to supporting the devs behind the game and (hopefully) making the game better in the future.

it's quite similar to how I won't spend my money on a 60 dollar title, or any pay first title, if I don't believe i'll be getting my moneys worth out of it. I also agree with the bang for the buck statement above me, I'm all for supporting the devs but if i'm paying 10-15 bucks a month and/or paying for microtransactions, I certainly want as much out of it as possible.

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I think the gamers who are cheap on MMO are simply not great MMO fans, i do not enjoy MMOs a lot so i prefer a free to play game instead of a subscription one.

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Because there are perfectly fine F2P/freemium games. The subscription games simply don't bring enough. The only sub game that has good content is WoW. Why should they pay for/sub to a new game when they don't really do much different than games they already have accounts for.

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I see quite a lot of incredulous buying by people - who pay a lot more than the subscription of an MMO on worthless and pointless digital items ''just because'' and yet turn around and openly and loudly baulk at paying the subscription of an MMO they like.

 

Talk about double standards.

 

If these same people actually stuck to their ideals - whether it be ''no buying of digital only items'' then i can fully understand that. But when it is buying digital horse armour for their character that has absolutely zero benefit in game apart from looking pretty for $15... and then flat out refuse a monthly subscription cost of the EXACT SAME AMOUNT. I cant help but laugh at their stupidity.

 

Because there are perfectly fine F2P/freemium games. The subscription games simply don't bring enough. The only sub game that has good content is WoW. Why should they pay for/sub to a new game when they don't really do much different than games they already have accounts for.

I cannot believe i am reading this. The whole point of a subscription is to do EXACTLY THAT. A subscription guarantees good quality content. It may be content not aimed squarely at you in particular (and i know many developers who place priority on the high end raids and PvP that i have no interest in myself) but it is intended to be high quality and a lot of it.

 

Free to play/freemium games CANNOT DO THIS. Even if they tried, they could not possibly do it consistently simply because their bottom line is not pre-determined. They have no way of knowing what they will be getting in profit for the next month so they have to keep it clean and concise, whatever content they do release. They cant even tell how many will be playing their game next month, much less how much they will spend on the in game store. Subscriptions give a guaranteed income and therefore the more subscribers they have the more and more higher quality the content becomes.

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Have to remember that in NA we have gone through not one but two recessions jobs were or are still hard to get. Plus yes free MMO's bring basically the same as sub based MMO's until an MMO brings something very new and popular to the genre people will continue to be cheap and i don't blame them. 

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I cannot believe i am reading this. The whole point of a subscription is to do EXACTLY THAT. A subscription guarantees good quality content. It may be content not aimed squarely at you in particular (and i know many developers who place priority on the high end raids and PvP that i have no interest in myself) but it is intended to be high quality and a lot of it.

I hate to burst your bubble, dude, but that's simply not how things work in the real world. A monthly subscription is just a guaranteed cost, not some sort of magical seal of quality. Look at games like TOR or ESO, which were huge disappointments. Or pretty much any non-WoW game (Rift, Aion, Tera, Age of Conan, Star Trek Online, LotRO, DCUO, and a ton of others I don't care to remember) that came out with a subscription and eventually went f2p.

It's not a question of objective cost anymore, it's about relative cost. Why pay $15 a month for an experience that's roughly equivalent to the free stuff I just listed?

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I hate to burst your bubble, dude, but that's simply not how things work in the real world. A monthly subscription is just a guaranteed cost, not some sort of magical seal of quality. Look at games like TOR or ESO, which were huge disappointments. Or pretty much any non-WoW game (Rift, Aion, Tera, Age of Conan, Star Trek Online, LotRO, DCUO, and a ton of others I don't care to remember) that came out with a subscription and eventually went f2p.

It's not a question of objective cost anymore, it's about relative cost. Why pay $15 a month for an experience that's roughly equivalent to the free stuff I just listed?

I am sorry to inform you but yes that is the whole point of a subscription. I have no idea where you are getting this idea that a subscription is just a way to squeeze players dry. Bitter much?

 

TOR is a shining example of how to do a free to play model right (granted the start of free to play was when they really had no idea how to implement it).

 

But yes, it IS the point of a subscription fee. It is to pay for high quality content and more of it. If this is not happening with a subscription based game, then the developers are either incompetent or just want to see their game fail. A game GOES free to play BECAUSE the subscribers are just not enough to keep it afloat on their own. The free to play model isnt the get-out-of-jail-free ticket - but it is a way to generate enough income to keep the game going. I guarantee if the numbers were not there for WoW, XIV or any other subscription based MMO, THEY WOULD ALSO go free to play.

 

You pay $15 a month for higher quality content and more of it. Do you understand now? If NOBODY is getting exactly that for their MMO, then quite frankly... the game will die. Players will abandon the game in droves and the developers start hemorrhaging money much too fast to cope. As a last ditch effort to save their game with far too few subscribers, they alter it to free to play. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt.

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Except subscription does not guarantee high quality content. It doesn't guarantee stability. It sure as hell doesn't bring in more income. Subscription only is simply an outdated model. Asking people to invest $30-60 upfront for a new game when they probably already invested hundreds in a competitor's game is not a good idea. MMO is a highly iterative genre and the market is quite saturated. There's little incentive for people to reinvest in a new game unless their old game is dead. 

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Except subscription does not guarantee high quality content. It doesn't guarantee stability. It sure as hell doesn't bring in more income. Subscription only is simply an outdated model. Asking people to invest $30-60 upfront for a new game when they probably already invested hundreds in a competitor's game is not a good idea. MMO is a highly iterative genre and the market is quite saturated. There's little incentive for people to reinvest in a new game unless their old game is dead. 

I am afraid you are 100% mistaken in that belief. But that is what it is meant to do. It is in fact meant to guarantee higher quality content and more of it. And yes it does in fact bring in more income and a more stable in come as well.

 

It is not ''outdated'' by any stretch. Gamers are just becoming cheap and all too entitled these days. They want the same quality and quantity content as a subscription based MMO but are not willing to put up the money to pay for it. Ergo the free to play system has reigned supreme.

 

BUT! The age of free to play is quickly coming to a head because gamers are slowly beginning to realise free to play only guarantees them never being forced to pay for anything. Of course, the vast majority of free to play games (free to play, not to be mistaken with buy to play) have heavy restrictions on what you can and cant do - and that is where the knife cuts in the gamer community. Where it divides us. Sure you can play forever but never have to pay a thing, but you cannot do X, Y or Z until you pay for it. And you can only do X a couple times. If you are ok with those restrictions you are happy. But most gamers are starting to realise in recent years that those restrictions are NOT a good thing. It is a result of being free to play.

 

Anyway, this is getting vastly off topic so i wont be participating in this particular discussion anymore.

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It wasnt going off topic at all, you are just closing your eyes, plugging your ears and shouting your opinion at anyone with an opposing one.

Ive played wow, subscribed for it for years, and ive played free games, and ive seen many many free games start off with far more and better (imo) content than many paid mmos. Pso2, warframe, vindictus are all great examples of games that quite frankly just blow the socks off games like conan and ESO.

Neither side guarantees anything but how much they let the player experience before they are asked for money.

7thFrost likes this

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To put it simply from the good to bad:

1.If the gameplay is good enough, paying for a subcription that gives you access to EVERYTHING, then it is great. 

2.If the gameplay is good and you play for free and the micro-transactions are only for cosmetic items, that is ok.

3.If the gameplay is good and you pay for a subscription but there is still a micro-transaction feature or "pay2win", that is not good.

4.If the gameplay is bad and you have to fork over money over and over again in micro-transactions for items or in-game currency for items that are necessary to continue that is very bad.

 

SMITE is an example of 2.

Runescape (previously was) a good example of 1, WoW is currently.

Planetside 2 (not really an RPG but you get the point) is a good example of 3

Assassins Creed Unity (once again not an RPG) Is a good example of 4, the highest tier gear is ridiculously over priced. Making it necessary to buy it with real money if you want it.

 

My point is that gamers are cheap because on so many occasions companies just don't deliver, and personally I don't like to spend a monthly fee of around $15 USD after already spending $60 on the base game.

Madfinnishgamer38 likes this

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People are smarter now they've grown up and they aren't spending other peoples money, they've realized that most things that seek to profit off you will wring you for all your worth if you don't put them back in their place, and ultimately be nothing more then an unwarranted rip off.

 

Saying they're cheaper than they've been in the past isn't really a valid point because better isn't good, every market is a buyers market and the seller has to realize that they don't ultimately pick the price, if the buyer isn't satisfied with what they got for the money you lose.

 

Personally I find a subscription fee for a paid game to be a dealbreaker and as such I won't buy it.

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Can anyone say they will play the average $60 game for 134 days? Why people complain about a subscription fee or the price of an MMO game up front when it used to be the normal. /sigh

 

 

Well yes as i can buy the game play it and then replay it again years later if i chose to without having to pay another penny to do so.

 

But dont get me wrong i play MMO's such as FFXIV also.  Hell i pay my monthly subscription just to go fishing and cook.

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I've always been a cheap gamer. Why pay more when I can get the same experience from a F2P or a one time buy?

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I think the reason for it is more to do with seeing the options available to us. Back in the day, there weren't as many options for MMOs, it was pay monthlies or play a really crap freeby, and that was it. Now we have more choice, we see that developers can make free to play MMOs that are as high in quality as the pay monthlies, so why play the pay monthlies?

 

People are more willing to pay out the $60/£50 or whatever for a new console game because nobody offers anything different. When indy games can offer the same experience as a full price console game (and there are some that do), you can watch them rocket to fame because they are showing it is possible to have that experience for less cost. But games like that come few and far between, so in the mean time, people will lay down their money hand over fist for console games.

 

Personally, I stopped buying full price console games about a year ago, simply because I can't afford it. Economy is a heartless bitch, but I'm starting to see the benefits too, not just in terms of how much money I shell out, but the quality of my gaming experience. When I buy games they are cheaper, patched, with DLC out, and after the reviews have come in. Which means no more disappointment, I get what I pay for every time.

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I don't approve of free, not for the most part anyways. I'd much rather pay for a game in order to support the dev so he can update the game and fix whatever needs fixing. Free games is just a ridiculous notion unless you're Valve and can pull that shit off without even feeling it.

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well mouse, i used to think like you...

 

i played wow for 5 years non stop, and in that time i also played eve online which was the only other mmo i managed to stick to as well as wow.

 

also in that time i played warhammer online (now shut down), tabula rasa (now shut down), aion (no idea), age of conan (so bad it went free to play), star wars old republic (so bad it started offering free to play), guild wars (was free to play from start), guild wars 2 (was free to play from start), rift (no idea i think it's now free to play).

 

all of those games i didn't stick to, sucked to me. they either tried to copy wow and failed, or were broken and never fixed, or lost customer faith and went free to play, or that and then got shutdown due to no funding because of enormous developer fuck ups.

 

i played those games as well as wow and EVE because i wanted a change from the monotonous BULLSHIT carrot on a stick gameplay (wow) and give me money for almost nothing in return (eve). after all this time playing, and all this money wasted, i realised i wasn't really having any fun in these games.

 

they are 100% designed into addicting the player with carrot on a stick gameplay and offering to inject more real life money into your character / gameplay to get you further into the game that you normally would by just playing. you then end up spending thousands, 10s of thousands of hours playing these games not achieving anything other than just repeating what you were doing already from god damned level 1.

 

so... i quit this kind of gaming around 2 years ago, maybe more. now, if any new mmo interests me in the slightest, i would only ever play it if it was free i.e. no subscription, because I KNOW, that it being an mmo, comes with bullshit / baggage, like crappy carrot on a stick, or microtransactions, pretty much everything i have grown to despise in video games.

 

i used to love mmos, but now i hate them. i find no value in them when i know all they are, are just graphical spreadsheets designed by evil companies who simply want to make their money on not per game sold but on per account subscription, and they can only get you to continue paying by giving you as i said... carrot on the stick, offer to let you put money into the game to boost yourself and so on, not actually giving you a normal down to earth video game.

 

so for these reasons, i know automatically assume every mmo is shit. and if i think an mmo is shit, i most certainly would not pay per month for it. at most i will play it free per month, 1 price to buy the game, and most certainly NOT at $60... i mean christ i could buy myself a real video game for that kind of price, a game like GTA5 for the PC next year in Feburary, that money could be put towards that.... why would i put it into a crappy mmo like elder scrolls online which we already saw like all the other mmos before it, fail, and will probably go free to play sooner or later? beats me mate!  :D

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Because I'd rather spend my money on beer rather than another MMO. I already have SWTOR, I don't need more.

Puntosmx likes this

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I believe the explanation is really what happened to me:

MMOs started coming out when I was in grade school, back when I had an allowance.  Back then I could play subscription MMOs because I wasn't paying for them; my parents with jobs were.

Then I went to college and didn't have enough money for a monthly subscription, so I couldn't pay for games that required it.  Then I turned to f2p MMOs and the rest is history.

So that's probably what happened in general: most people started playing MMOs when they were young and had a steady income of money given to them from their parents, and that was enough to pay for MMOs.  When the first generation of MMO players went off to college, they no longer had a steady income and could no longer pay for subscription MMOs.  This resulted in a huge dip in profits for the MMO developers, so they had to change things up in order to get their money: a system that could get them as much money if not more by letting the players pay what they wanted when they wanted.  And thus the f2p (with cash shop) system was born.

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This is the opinion of a 'cheap' gamer.

 

There are no 'freemium' games for me. If I try a free to play game, I want it to be entirely free. Like DotA2 and Hearthstone. Sure, some grinding is required (but NOT LoL level) but if you stick a paywall on me, or give people too many benefits simply because they are paying, you lost me. Might as well put a 40$ tag on your game and be honest. 

As for subscribtion based games... Fuck off. I don't want to pay 200$ for a game.

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Short answer, since this economy. Thanks, Obama! :D

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