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nickyzhere

Valve pulls Skyrim Payment

63 posts in this topic

I don't think there is a need to hate Skyrim or Bethesda now. Skyrim is a great game and with mods it's even greater, that won't change but as Glaice said, Valve, the company that everyone praised, including Gaben have now proven they can go greedy too and that we shouldn't trust them too much.

I always knew that people were overreacting with all the "Praise Gaben!" stuff and now I was right. At least they did pull it out but let's hope they don't try some sketchy theme again. I was raged at by few people for sometimes saying Valve or Steam might become the next EA/Origin and here was something that Valve did that I haven't seen even EA try to do. Put a price tag on mods...

 

Every company can screw up. My personal favorite whom I really trust is CDPR (studio behind Witcher). I trust them fully but there is no point praising them. And I still believe there might be a chance they screw up with Witcher 3, despite ALL the promises they made.

 

But yeah Glaice is right. Gaben now lost trust from many of his fans and he will need to do some work to get it back.

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A lot of work, like making the Summer Sale 2015 extra, extra special to try and garner back some of that trust.

Apex Spartan likes this

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A lot of work, like making the Summer Sale 2015 extra, extra special to try and garner back some of that trust.

I have to agree with boogie tho

 

They might try to sell mods again, but just do it in a another way. If not Valve, maybe some other company might give it a shot. This might become a dangerous thing but as long as nobody supports it, we are fine.

Ysnar likes this

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And to all the big game journalists posting articles thinking we're entitled for fighting this and siding with Valve/Bethesda more than 55% in favor for this dreaded paid mods nonsense, fuck you. We are standing for what is meant to be free and not just another cash cow for these companies to milk more money from us because frankly, we'll spend out money elsewhere if you do so.

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Out of curiosity, if Paid Mods were something that the modding community itself were to start and actually implement with like, say, the system concept I proposed earlier for example, would you be opposed to it still?

 

I know there's plenty of hatred getting tossed at Steam and Bethesda, which is entirely warranted given what they did. However, I wouldn't want to see that disdain prevent any and all further evolution of the gaming community to expand and allow for more business and general financial opportunities. Change isn't something to hate, in and of itself. In fact, changes can often times be a very good thing. Provided it is done properly.

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We are standing for what is meant to be free and not just another cash cow for these companies to milk more money from us because frankly, we'll spend out money elsewhere if you do so.

If they would have stood their ground, people would've bought mods. It's the same with pre-ordering. Every year we all say: "Hey guys. Let's not pre-order anymore because game-developers and publishers are evil."

Next game gets announced and the majority will pre-order because of some free character and stuff like that. We as consumers of course have influence over companies. However it is not as big as some of you hope to be. There is something called "marketing" and they know, that enough people will buy their products.

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 Gaben now lost trust from many of his fans and he will need to do some work to get it back.

 

A lot of work, like making the Summer Sale 2015 extra, extra special to try and garner back some of that trust.

 

You're right, now it's the Valve is going to be in damage control for a little while... because this is their situation right now:

GLPNOs6.png

 

gaben might try redeem himself with a few sales here, some concessions there and a few witty tweets, but:

6d42aa2e828f2b7cc1810c8934b1859397c5eaef

 

Like Horse Armor of Oblivion and the Tri-colored Mass Effect 3 endings, people will remember that Steam at one point tried to push paid mods to cash in on the well-established modding scene... and in turn, people will be more vigilant/watchful of what Steam (and others, like EA, ubisoft and even GoG) will do in the future.

Glaice likes this

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If they would have stood their ground, people would've bought mods. It's the same with pre-ordering. Every year we all say: "Hey guys. Let's not pre-order anymore because game-developers and publishers are evil."

Next game gets announced and the majority will pre-order because of some free character and stuff like that. We as consumers of course have influence over companies. However it is not as big as some of you hope to be. There is something called "marketing" and they know, that enough people will buy their products.

Heh, besides if said pre-order sales are down, everyone who works at Gamestop and some other retailers are used like punching bags that get beat up as all the blame for it is shoveled off onto them. Innocent employees who are put through the grinder for somehow not being able to magically convince everyone to pay up. Most of the time, I pre-order for the sole purpose of my wife and friends to help out with the "all-powerful-metrics" nonsense.

 

Though in terms of mods, its been an active community and "thing to do" for years now that had been free for so long. I think in this case, the gamer community did actually have a greater weight that they could throw around on the matter. Corporate no doubt saw this, as steps were being taken to silence the masses speaking out against it. The fact that they DID actively fight back against the community is evident that sticking to their guns just wasn't working in this situation. Or rather, it was proving to be more of a problem than anything else. It was costing them more than it was worth.

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Corporate no doubt saw this, as steps were being taken to silence the masses speaking out against it. The fact that they DID actively fight back against the community is evident that sticking to their guns just wasn't working in this situation. Or rather, it was proving to be more of a problem than anything else. It was costing them more than it was worth.

You cannot stop us! One day you will have to buy DLC to even turn on your PC/Console. MUHAHAHAHAHAHA.

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You cannot stop us! One day you will have to buy DLC to even turn on your PC/Console. MUHAHAHAHAHAHA.

58317406.jpg

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BUT WHAT YOU FAILED TO REALIZE, CORPORATE COMMANDER, IS THAT...!

 

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BUT WHAT YOU FAILED TO REALIZE, CORPORATE COMMANDER, IS THAT...!

 

Curse you Malphisto!!! We will have our revenge and everybody including you will suffer!!! MUHAHAHA!!

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Honestly, this makes me unhappy. I like the thought of encouraging people who create quality content to get paid for such work. I feel like it was not implemented properly, and that was the problem. With better policing of content (which, let's be real, Valve doesn't want to do any actual fucking work. That'd be ludicrous) and a better cut to the creators themselves, this would have been a great system. I'm sad to see this so quickly removed rather than cleaned up.

I agree. A lot of talented people out there could have made a living doing this and make MORE awesome mods. I don't think people understood how the system works. There would still be free mods out there for crying out loud!

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I agree. A lot of talented people out there could have made a living doing this and make MORE awesome mods. I don't think people understood how the system works. There would still be free mods out there for crying out loud!

Point is that what Steam did would support Steam and Bethesda, not the mods. 25% off is a slap to face for modders too to be honest. Yes it's better than 0, but they are the ones making mods for the games and they deserve more. Besides, people would never pay for mods. It's simple as that. If Steam really cares about supporting mods, guess what? They can add a donation box for every mod  and modder and not a price tag for which 75% goes to them.

 

What they did is just a money steal. Mods were always free, that's the whole point. Besides most modders, big ones who make great mod, get reputation and get donations. People are actually really kind and do donate. Also the problem is lots of mods have mistakes and people put all kinds of mods, also they borrow a lot from other mods which also creates issues.

 

In the end, they can earn more off of donations because let's be honest, most people wouldn't pay over $20 for a few mods. 

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I agree. A lot of talented people out there could have made a living doing this and make MORE awesome mods. I don't think people understood how the system works. There would still be free mods out there for crying out loud!

 

The other problem is that there's the risk of someone taking a mod from someone and then uploads it in his name i.e. monetizes someone else's mod for themselves.  The problem with this is that there's no way for the original modder to reclaim their mod from someone else, and valve told them the only way to avoid that situation is to monetize their mods pre-emtpively...which provides steam money as they take 75% i.e. the mod has to make $400 in sales, then the modder (or impersonator) can get $100.  If it doesn't reach $400, the modder gets nothing.

 

Another issue was that when you monetize mods, you get the problem of DMCA claims... on mods.

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woah, my respect for them went up because they understood and listened to the community. Its nice to to see a relationship between the consumer mass and corporation that works as symbiotically and not hunter-prey relationship...actually I dont know what to describe the last one BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

I know corporations only cares about money but still

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11071924_1046051498757139_69131468535407

That makes Gaben the senator guy (or whatever his position was) that sold out the Spartans to the Persians. Who's the hunchback who betrays them and gets them all killed in the end?

AlShareef114 likes this

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Fuck Polygon lol, they're one of the worst journalist outlets.

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Polygon is still defending paid mods, even after they've been removed:

https://archive.is/vnHtx

 

:-S

At the end, he does have a fair point. There really isn't much difference between a company like Valve forcing Paid Mods down people's throats and gamers bullying mod designers to force them to keep making mods for free.

 

At the end of the day, whether its corporations or the gaming community itself, the artists are the ones getting the rough end of the stick. Just because there is a Donation feature doesn't mean its going to get used nearly as much as it should. This is a difference in mentality between modders who view this as a hobby and those who consider themselves a sort of professional. If an artist creates a masterpiece that took him like, lets say half a year to finish? Should they be expected to willingly, each and every time hand it out for free or so others can copy their work without permission?

 

Saying "No Paid Mods" but then being in favor of Donations is really more like slapping a bandaid on it. Its "ok" to persecute people who actually want to make something of their talents doing what they love, so long as we make sure there is an option to donate? Its as if the donation concept is a convenient excuse to disregard the feelings of everyone. Mods were always free, yes, but why was that? To my knowledge, the quality of said mods were never anything worthy of a price tag. So of course, its more of a amateur hobby. But that isn't the case anymore. I've been watching these youtube videos that showcase Skyrim Mods. A lot of these just blow me away, like many far surpass the Bethesda Dev Team in terms of quality.

 

As the community ages, skills sharpen and are honed. What began as a hobby for most, obviously became something much more. But distributing "free" work to the masses doesn't pay the bills, doesn't put food on the table or help you if you suffer a health related problem. What is the outcome? These people will gradually stop seeing a point to it, and either give it up entirely or try to get an actual job doing this sort of thing because at the end of the day, everyone needs money to survive in society.

 

Valve and Bethesda were NOT acting in the best interest of the artists. They wanted to profit off of their hard work. But the gamers also don't have the best interest of the artists, either. They want to profit off of their hard work as well. And if these modders just up and quit doing what they do? The community would be sad about it for a while, and then quickly move onto the next thing. Because of the exact same mentality.

 

Companies: "I want-"

Gamers: "I want-"

 

Me, me, me. Both speaking the exact same language, with the only difference being the point of view. But two wrongs don't make a right, and the innocents caught in the middle are the ones who suffer most. (In this case, the modders)

 

That's just my opinion, like so many out there with different beliefs on this matter.

 

I'm not happy with how things turned out. I mean, I'm glad the corporations got screwed over, which rarely happens. But I hate how greedy the masses are with this self-entitlement to "free" things. (Case in point, modders getting death threats? Really, is that even necessary?) If anything, I would have MUCH preferred the people demanding for more rights and better treatment for the modders in all this. Hell, I would have LOVED to have seen people trying to advocate proposals to Valve that gave more of the profit to the modders and that called for an actual, legitimate system that laid to rest the fears and concerns regarding copyright. You know, an actual ORGANIZED SYSTEM that the community is involved in. Not outright abolish the whole damn thing and condemn any who support the notion itself.

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I'm not happy with how things turned out. I mean, I'm glad the corporations got screwed over, which rarely happens. But I hate how greedy the masses are with this self-entitlement to "free" things. (Case in point, modders getting death threats? Really, is that even necessary?) If anything, I would have MUCH preferred the people demanding for more rights and better treatment for the modders in all this. Hell, I would have LOVED to have seen people trying to advocate proposals to Valve that gave more of the profit to the modders and that called for an actual, legitimate system that laid to rest the fears and concerns regarding copyright. You know, an actual ORGANIZED SYSTEM that the community is involved in. Not outright abolish the whole damn thing and condemn any who support the notion itself.

Exactly. Every post I see that is something along the likes of "The evil is defeated" or such, I really have no tolerance for. Yes, I'm defending the idea of purchasable mods. The way Valve did it with $team? Atrocious, yes, but not because they implemented it in the first place. Because of how much they took from the modders.

Repeat after me:

Just because something has always been free doesn't immediately mean it should ALWAYS be free

The modders deserve a lot more credit for their work, because like any other medium, it is art. It takes time, patience, and a hell of a lot of love to crank things like mods out. The problem with how Valve did it was such:

A ) The bullshit 25% to the creators (and only after $100, meaning they had to sell $400 worth)

B ) The lack of policing the content on $team Workshop. 

 

Honestly, if you're sending threats to modders for wanting to get paid for hours upon hours of time and work spent, and if you're giving a negative review to the game because of policies that don't effect the base game, you're a piece of shit and kindly go fuck yourself. 

 

Kindly.

 

I'm sick of the "me, me, me" culture that is rampant in the gaming industry. From both companies AND gamers. Sure, gamers are entitled to not be treated like bags of money to be exploited at will, but at the same time this was a chance to show your support for the content creators out there. And y'all fucked it up. Big time.

 

Honestly? Death threats for wanting to earn some money for your creation? What kind of asshole do you have to be to encourage that?

Malphisto and Legolas_Katarn like this

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Just because something has always been free doesn't immediately mean it should ALWAYS be free

 

Why not?

 

Why shouldn't it always be free? Mods are a hobby, not a job... if it was, then it would be an indie game, expansion pack or DLC.  A modder is free to put a price on it, or ask for donations... or neither, its their choice.  It has always been this way, and it has been successful.  Why fix something that ain't broke?

 

 

Sure, gamers are entitled to not be treated like bags of money to be exploited at will, but at the same time this was a chance to show your support for the content creators out there. And y'all fucked it up. Big time.

 

Honestly? Death threats for wanting to earn some money for your creation? What kind of asshole do you have to be to encourage that?

 

So we gamers collectively fucked it up just because a number of sick-minded freaks sent death threats to valve?

 

I mean seriously, just go look at the PCMR, steam and skyrim subreddits.  There were those who wanted mods to be free 100%, but there was a lot of support for setting it up as a donation system, they were referring to what the nexus modding community has done for quite a while, which is voluntary donations to the modders only... 100% of the donation goes to the modder.

 

Unrelated: a nice summary of the situation, built upon AlShareef's pic (I didn't make this btw):

http://i.imgur.com/fHuJkHH.webm

Apex Spartan and AlShareef114 like this

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I don't look at this from that standpoint. I just know that if Steam allowed this and if gamers didn't rebel vs their idea, other companies would start doing the same thing and in the end, maybe 5 years from now, people would need to pirate mods too. Is that really necessary?

 

That's jut how it goes. If Steam succeded now and made money off of this, other companies would do it too. And this is a major threat. If they put a price tag on something that's always been free, on a freaking Mod...MODIFICATION...of course I'm entitled to fight against it. I will donate and do whatever to support someone but modders know that they don't depend on it. It's not a job and it's not something they have to do. Besides most modders just do it for hobby and maybe get reputation and some donation.

 

The only way I can see this is for example what EPIC GAMES is doing with Unreal. Cooperate with the community and take the best creations and make them part of the game, officially. Or they put community's creations and put it in their own game market and most of the profit goes to the person who created the content for the game.

So if a modder for Skyrim creates a REALLY good mod, like that guy who created Falskaar..I wouldn't mind paying for that and I wouldn't mind if Steam and Bethesda sent a contract to that guy and said, "Hey, we could sell this mod for $20 and 25% goes to you." That would be perfectly fine. But what Steam did and Bethesda is that put a price tag on some really simple mods...that's not right.

 

Not only is that bad but many other companies would start doing it, it would be a threat for gamers but for great games too. People wouldn't be buying mods that much and less people would play Skyrim let's say. Skyrim is still played to this day because of mods which have been free since start. Put a price tag on that and the population will drop. Game's lifespan will drop. Future games lifespan will drop too.

In the end it will be, "Buy mods and support our game." That's bullshit. I support your game by already buying it and playing it and if it's good, recommending it to others.

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Why not?

 

Why shouldn't it always be free? Mods are a hobby, not a job... if it was, then it would be an indie game, expansion pack or DLC.  A modder is free to put a price on it, or ask for donations... or neither, its their choice.  It has always been this way, and it has been successful.  Why fix something that ain't broke?

Because it was, and still is, a very unfamiliar landscape. The steam workshop had a great opportunity to represent the people who do create mods properly and to show that it truly is work that is put in. Whether it is a hobby or not, that doesn't change how much stress and time it can take. I have a friend who, as a hobby, knits and crochets. She then goes on to sell the product of her hard work. How is that SO much different? 

 

So we gamers collectively fucked it up just because a number of sick-minded freaks sent death threats to valve?

 

No but both sides of the equation (Valve and the gamers) let modders get caught in the crossfire. The people who put their time and work and love into creating this content for a very unappreciative group of people.

EDIT: And I was specifically talking about the modders themselves being the target of threats

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