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Kernyx

Fallout 4: worth pre-ordering?

17 posts in this topic

Bethesda is holding back a lot of information on their new game Fallout 4, which will release at the 10th of November 2015.

 

From what I've seen in the Trailer, Presentation and what I know about the game's development I expect the game to wether be very good or to be a catastrophy for both sides, developer and customer.

 

What speaks for the game to be worth pre-ordering?

  • The game has been in development since October 2008 according to Bethesda's statements. That is a whole 7 years.
    7 years is a lot of time to develop a sequel. It is long enough to enhance the engine Fallout 3 used to today's standards and still enough time to massively polish up all the features it had.
     
  • Bethesda usually doesn't sell broken games.
    They are aware of the fact that the only reason why their studio is able to keep itself above the "Indie Dev" line is the in-depth support for their customers. Mod-support was the main reason to that.
    I am absolutely certain that Skyrim wouldn't have sold this well without mods, people in fact only bought it to mod the game right away before even playing the base game. Many critics couldn't even force themselves to play the vanilla game all the way through. Therefore selling a broken game would hurt them a lot and it is in their own interest to not screw up.
    You can't create a modding community that raises sale numbers around a game that nobody plays.
     
  • Previous successes indicate that they gathered a lot of new assets to create better games in the future.
    Their technology was already old when it came out but games like Dishonored showed that they were working on something.
    While it might not be the same studio and maybe it even was just a one-time deal, they may have gotten more out of the project than just a successful game.
    The trailer showed some game elements that were also in Dishonored.
     
  • Character mesh enhancement:
    One of the biggest improvements are the new models.
    While Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas suffered from ugly models with restricted skeletons and technology behind them, the first game element Bethesda showed their audience at the E3 presentation were the new models.
     
  • Better dialogues:
    The first couple dialogues and interactions show that Bethesda understood that their work in Fallout 3 and New Vegas needed massive improvements.
    This time around they seem to have come out of their tortoise shell and added some life to the game.
     
  • Dog texture.
    I know a lot of geniuses have ranted about the low texture resolution for the dog.
    You just download a hi-res texture mod on day one or two and the problem is solved.
    It is really not a reason to not buy the game.
    The rest of the textures looked rather fine in the shown footage so we might even see a better looking dog on release, since Bethesda surely heard of it and might even adress it. (It might not be their top priority though)
     
  • The world looks believeable.
    Little areas of dead "forest" seemed pretty well designed and believeable.
    You might not see a huge enhancement over Skyrim, but it certainly looks like they have put some effort into the looks of your surroundings.
     
  • Enhanced graphics:
    They worked on their graphics engine.
    It might not become the best looking game in the world, it might even look somewhat outdated on release, but it looks good and that's all you need for an open world RPG-action game.
     
  • Weather:
    They seem to have added rain and radiation clouds to the game.
    There is still the chance that it's just from cutscenes or only happens in certain places, but I hope for dynamic weather throughout the whole game world.
     
  • Roofs:
    In some scenes you see rooftops and even jump off of one.
    That indicates two things:
    Firstly that the meshes in the game world are made with today's standards.
    The buildings actually exist and aren't just empty backdrops like in a theatre.
    Loadingscreens might become a rare thing. (and they were very short in Fallout 3, nobody mentioned them as far as I know, eventhough they were everywhere. You couldn't walk 3 steps without running into a loadingscreen.)
    Secondly it also indicated that 3 dimensional gameplay is going to be a thing, especially after they showed a power armor with jetpack. While it might just be to lower or remove falling damage, it still adds some verticality to the game.
    Let's just hope they didn't overdo the roof-sniper thing like Battlefield 4 did.
     
  • New gunplay:
    Starting off with the stats, guns now openly show their properties in the pip boy menu.
    Damage, Fire Rate, Range, Accuracy (, Weight, Value, Ammunition)

    Coming along with completely new weapon models they also added complete part by part weapon customization.
    From reading some tooltips when they presented the weapon modification menu they also added this to the gunplay and the weapon stats:
    Spraypatterns, Recoil (!), melee attacks with ranged weapons, hip fire accuracy VS scoped accuracy, ammo capacity based on weapon mods, range based on weapon mods, reload speed, weight based on weapon mods, scope magnification based on weapon mods, per-shot recoil based on weapon mods, focus for sights (what ever that means), armor piercing effect (melee), bleeding effect (melee), different materials for melee weapons (maybe just cosmetic), hip fire range VS scoped range (wtf?), multi-projectile weapons, electrocution effect, fire damage, critical hits

    Based on the shown weapons we will see the following weapons and probably some more:
    Laser pistols, laser rifles, laser shotguns, flamethrower pistols, plasma pistols, plasma "shotgun" pistols, flame thrower plasma rifles, plasma assault rifles, assaultrifles, LMGs (modified ARs), Cryolator Pistols (fires ice rays), junk throwers, basseballbats, wrenches, sledge hammers, not-so-mini miniguns, bolt-action rifles (also laser), marksman rifles, fatman (nuke thrower), double-barrel shotguns, grenades, automatic pistols, rocketlaunchers, billard cues, ...
    They stated there will be over 50 base weapons and over 700 modifications for them.

    Judged by the gunplay itself, shown in the trailer and presentation you will also see hit markers.
    From what I saw I believe the gunplay will be about on-par with Call of Duty or BioShock which is very good news.
    The gunplay in Fallout 3 and New Vegas was horrible, but from what I saw you can now really look forward to it.
    Hip fire, ADS (aiming down sights), VATS mode, 3rd person mode, visible recoil
     
  • Armor Customization:
    Powerarmors will be customizeable just like guns.
    Certain parts will have following additional effects and tools:

    Modification slots,
    material slots (requires raw materials),
    Headlights,
    SPECIAL stat increase,
    Jet Pack,
    Damage resistances: physical, electrical, radioactive,
    A stat called "PA Bat Dam Rate" which probably means Power Armor Battery Damage Rate,
     
  • Base Building:
    They added basebuilding to the game.
    You will be able to build buildings piece by piece, walls snap to foundations, furniture can be freely placed, lighting and other machines can be build and supplied with power and also use switches, you can invite NPCs to your base and interact with them.
    You can grow vegetables or at least let your NPCs grow them for you.
    You will be able to run brahmin caravans.
    Your will have to defend your settlement
    The settlement will however be in a specific location and you probably won't be able to do anything related to base building outside that area. (except for gathering resources)
     
  • Enemy variety:
    We will see raiders, the brotherhood of steel, supermutants, behemoths, ghouls, radscorpions, mirelurks, protectrons, sentry bots, androids (!), deathclaws, bloodbugs (giant mosquitos) and other creatures.
    More importantly the footage showed raiders in power armor and super mutants in comparable armor.
    They were also holding different kinds of weapons, such as melee weapons and assault rifles.
    The rad scorpions in the footage dug themselves into the ground to sneak-attack the player.
    Some enemies (at least deathclaws) will play fully animated killing scenes, when they kill the player, others will also play special attack animations, such as the bloodbugs will actually bite the player.
     
  • Call of Duty Dog!
    Since CoD got boring after a while, the Call of Duty dog decided to play some Fallout.
    Let's just hope the dog left its full-dive mind-control device in Call of Duty Ghosts.
     
  • Improved Menus and HUDs
    The HUD seems to be more than just an alpha texture on the player's screen now.
    It moves, it interacts and it has fully animated elements, such as a limping vault boy, when you are crippled, or a vault boy shooting with double pisols, when you trigger a perk or critical hit (not sure how).
    So we can expect so see more animated and designed elements.
    In the modification menu, you got live updates on weapon and modification stats, so they probably reduced the loading times.
    That also indicates that they put quite some effort into their scripting and valued all the tiny little details, that make a game feel like it's running well. It seems to be interacting with the player and the game world to a certain degree.

 

What speaks against it?

  • Bethesda might not sell broken games, but they sure showed some bad attitude every now and then.
     
  • Bethesda stated that it's not just about the size of the map but also about the stuff that is in the map.
    While that might be true firstly a small map will always be a small map.
    Fallout 4 is about wasteland, about a lonely world where few things are left, therefore stuffing a lot of content into a small map means you won't be able to see the desert between all the buildings and you can't feel immersed by a lonely world among all those NPCs throwing quests and grenades at you.
    The way they said it sounds more like them making up an excuse for the world design falling short.
     
  • No sliders for the character creator?
    Why in the world would you do that?
    Sliders were invented for a reason: They are there so you see what you are doing, so you don't miss anything and find out about it later when you can't fix it anymore and so you have everything under control without fiddling around and looking for the right clicky spot.
    A slider mod is probably going to be one of the first things people will add to the nexus and steam workshop.
     
  • The more complex the character creator gets, the harder it will get to add custom character models.
    Mod developers will have to keep up with all the advancements.
    That stretches the development time for custom models and makes it more unattractive for a mod creator to bother making one. It's just too tedious.
     
  • While they showed some dialogue improvements on one side, they also showed the same old "dialogue is over, i should be over there so ima run there like an animated puppet" scripting and animations.
     
  • When they showed the pip boy menu they also clearly showed that there are no skills, only SPECIAL and perks.
    There are multiple things this could mean:
    A: They just didn't finish the skills and therefore it just wasn't in the footage since it wasn't in the game YET.
    B: They removed the skills and generalized the gameplay to be more appealing to casual gamers.
    C: They removed the skills and generalized the gameplay to be more appealing to casual gamers and totally screwed up on it.
     
  • They added a lot of features to the game such as full weapon, armor and base customization.
    While that basically sounds like a good thing it can also mean that their eyes were bigger than their mouths.
    There is a certain possibility that the features will fall short because they just didn't have the time to make the features become a complete experience.
    And that's just the medium-sized problem:
    There is the possibility they wanted to do so much and ended up not even getting the game's basics done, because everyone was doing something else and in the end nobody got their work done.
    It doesn't look like it's incomplete, but from the past you should know that developers used tricks before to make their potential customers believe the game was a complete experience.
    You should always keep that in mind.
    If it sounds too good to be true, they're possibly hiding something from you.

    HOWEVER this might not be the case, since they seem to have had enough time to create minigames for the pip boy.
    Adding features is one thing, but adding completely unneccessary minigames is another.
    They would have to be super stupid to work on minigames instead of on unfinished core-features.
    It is more likely that at least a small group of their team was done early with their work and had nothing better to do than to add minigames to the game and probably even create the mobile game "Fallout Shelter" in the process (which was also a good PR idea if you asked me).
    But don't get me wrong, I saw developers who found the time to add minigames, but not to make a proper game, so this is really nothing you can tell for sure.
     
  • The NPCs didn't look any smarter than in Fallout 3.
    In the shown footage the enemies just blindly ran and shot at the player.
    The only thing I didn't see before was the "Synth" kneeling down for a moment while shooting, but still not taking cover or anything.
    While the gunplay might be better, the difficulty will probably only come from enemies turned into bullet sponges.
     
  • They reduced the dialogue menu to a 4 choice system on XBox controllers.
    Eventhough they didn't show much at all about it, it looked like they dumbed down the RPG part to some degree.
     
  • They didn't change the physics all that much.
    Some people stated "ooooh the shopping cart was pushed away, they got nice physics" but actually it really wasn't that much of a physics effect. An NPC ran into it and the cart totally overreacted to it just like in other games where the physics aren't all that important.
    We can expect very rudimentary physics in the game.
    While that might not imply anything I want you to remember the god awful bounding boxes in Fallout 3 and New Vegas where you constantly shot invisible walls and bullet-proof fences.
    Explosions and vehicle destructions also seemed to be just the same as in Fallout 3, so we might even have to expect glitches to occur on a regular basis.

 

 

Please give me feedback to my statements and what you think why you should or shouldn't pre-order the game and why the game might be a good or bad game when it releases.

Saniedrel and articman like this

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Excellent list of reasons, you nailed the trailer analysis/gameplay analysis on the head. I expect it a be a great game, but even as a fallout fanboy I think the AI is going to be just as dumb as every other Bethesda game before it. One thing I would like to also note is that Bethesda does, indeed, ship broken games. Not broken on Master Chief Collection levels, but broken as in save bugs, quest bugs, potential story line progression bugs that prevent further advancement. Fallout 3 had plenty of game breaking bugs, many not addressed until months after initial release. I know many gamers don't remember them, but I do since I was one of the first to... have the quest line advancement bug happen to. Yup, 15 hours in (thankfully not longer) and I had to restart. So yes, I remember it very well: Bethesda does ship broken games.

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  • They reduced the dialogue menu to a 4 choice system on XBox controllers.

    Eventhough they didn't show much at all about it, it looked like they dumbed down the RPG part to some degree.

Well, If you ask, this new dialogue system will be similar to a game called Deus Ex: Human revolution. In that game, initially, there are 4 options in the dialogue, however, there are some that gives a couple of extra option. Example: There's a dialogue that says "Bill", pressing it will open a few options that have to do with, bill, which could be just simple questions, or an option that involves the use S.P.E.C.I.A.L or certain perks.   

 

 

 
  • When they showed the pip boy menu they also clearly showed that there are no skills, only SPECIAL and perks.

    There are multiple things this could mean:

    A: They just didn't finish the skills and therefore it just wasn't in the footage since it wasn't in the game YET.

    B: They removed the skills and generalized the gameplay to be more appealing to casual gamers.

    C: They removed the skills and generalized the gameplay to be more appealing to casual gamers and totally screwed up on it

 

 It's neither of those options, the system is a bit similiar to Elder scrolls, Elder scrolls online to be more specific. What do I mean? In Fallout 4, there will be perks that I like to call "skill perks", you earn those perks with perk points, but you don't rank them with perk points, instead, you rank them with Xp that you get by killing enemies, hacking terminals, lock-picking doors etc...

 

 

 

  • The more complex the character creator gets, the harder it will get to add custom character models.

    Mod developers will have to keep up with all the advancements.

    That stretches the development time for custom models and makes it more unattractive for a mod creator to bother making one. It's just too tedious.

The new character creation system seems to be similiar to the sims, where you either pick a preset, pick a preset and sculpt it or just make sculpt it.

 

 

 

  • Bethesda stated that it's not just about the size of the map but also about the stuff that is in the map.

    While that might be true firstly a small map will always be a small map.

    Fallout 4 is about wasteland, about a lonely world where few things are left, therefore stuffing a lot of content into a small map means you won't be able to see the desert between all the buildings and you can't feel immersed by a lonely world among all those NPCs throwing quests and grenades at you.

    The way they said it sounds more like them making up an excuse for the world design falling short.

     

In an interview, when Todd Howard was asked about the size of Fallout 4's, he said, and I quote: "If you look at our previous games, it's something like that". So I assume it's gonna be the size of Skyrim or Fallout New Vegas but with less loading screens, more areas and more detail.

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Like Big Fan of core Bethesda Game think there is lot of reason to be excited, but also i am bit worried if Zenimax management didnt mess with development:

1. Base game was always okay but what make it ultimate experience is DLC's Mothership Zeta, Old World blues, Dead money, Broken Steel ...

2. Regular free updates with adding content and regular DLC's feeling bit like updates for dying light where big part of DLC's was for free ...

3. Playing Bethesda games since Daggerfall and this core team never fail my expectation, some people nagging its not like old turn based fallout ... if you look for stuff like this go for enhanced Fallout antalogy or Wasteland 2 

4. Games have less and less glitches and dealing with it better by every game, listen to gamers

5. Howard Todd's team is one of most stable and good game delivering team who even try teach students how to do stuff right. Also isnt lazy f*cks who do base core of code universal for all platforms and make PC gaming limited or cripled by reconversion of console controls (dark souls,...) but full usage of graphics and controls on PC

my worries:

1. Zenimax HIT TESO giving me worries if they try mess with development ...

2. How fast will be support for launch glitches

3 optimization nowadays showing most of devs. is lazy fucks who dont care how to do stuff properly just care for $$$ (ehm ehm WB Rocksteady) usually for PC test at High end desktop and graphic. Just by nvidia data is at least 250.000.000 Active devices with gaming graphics around the world (feedback from nvidia experience) add AMD numbers and you get fucking big market to focus. 

4. How well be treated launch of the game

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my worries:

1. Zenimax HIT TESO giving me worries if they try mess with development ...

Don't worry about that, Zenimax is far too busy with ESO to do anything that could mess up the game.

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Don't worry about, Zenimax is far too busy with ESO to do anything that could mess up the game.

Still you never know when some asshole manager start to show ego on the dev. team. From experience from R&D some division manager can ruin even best project team ever... 

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I pre-ordered Fallout 4 fall one simple reason. I wanted the pip-boy edition. I knew the pre orders would wipe that out so I took the chance. If it wasn't for that, despite the amount of certainty that I would buy it anyway plus the genuine faith that I have the game will be brilliant, I would not have pre-ordered. I praise the points, but I don't see them as reasons to pre-order, more to have faith in the game.

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Of course the chances are high that the game is going to be awesome, but I expected that from other games in the past and got disappointed (what an understatement).

 

Judging by the facts we know about the game...

They had 7 years to develop, at the E3 conference they stated that the game is about done already, which basically means they now have plenty of time for bugfixing and polishing.

 

You can't expect of Fallout 4 to be the next level of video gaming, but you can expect it to be a very good game.

The graphics are very nice, you really don't "need" more than that.

 

The features sound great and seem to be done, the downsides I spotted are acceptable.

Stupid NPCs ... let's be honest: the last game with comparably good FPS AI was probably ... Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare.
That's a pretty lousy score so far.
Everyone is using Bulletsponges and WoW-Boss-Tactics instead of smart AI.
The RPG elements are probably going to balance it out to some degree.

 

I especially like the improvements in gunplay. They learned a lot.

Recoil, ADS, just all the stuff an egoshooter should have ... except for hitmarkers.

 

Also your arguments weren't wrong. The 4 button dialogues might just have a bunch of sub-menus like "discuss" or "question" or "interrogate" or whatever, while the important things are right where you want them to be.

And seem to have been totally wrong with the skill system.

 

So it really looks good for this game, let's just hope they don't hide anything horrible.

 

The biggest threat is game breaking bugs.

They might not get the optimization right, or screw up with the RAM usage, who knows.

Also there is a lousy little company full of maggots called NVidia that constantly screws around with their drivers...

 

A little other threat is that they really hopped onto the casual train and screwed something up like a short tunnel-like story, boring busy-work and what now.
That might entertain "some" people but certainly not everyone. I hope they kept a good balance and allowed both playstyles to have a full experience.

 

However the modability is also a little problem here.

The weapon customization and character creation menus are rather complex and need more skilled mod creators than before.

They probably wanted to create Fallout 4 along with their paid mods plan.

Since the paid mods idea has been shot on sight, Fallout 4 might suffer from lack of content creators.

The game might allow very good mods, but good means difficult and time consuming.

And that means fewer mod creators are skilled enough and even less want to bother working so hard for something that doesn't bring any money.

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Recoil, ADS, just all the stuff an egoshooter should have ... except for hitmarkers.

 

Actually, there are hitmarkers: 

 

Pay close attention to the crosshairs and you'll see them.

 

 

 

Everyone is using Bulletsponges and WoW-Boss-Tactics instead of smart AI.

Well, from what iv'e seen, it looks like the only bullet sponges are Deathclaws, sentry bots, super mutants and enemies wearing power armor.

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Actually, there are hitmarkers: 

 

Pay close attention to the crosshairs and you'll see them.

 

 

Well, from what iv'e seen, it looks like the only bullet sponges are Deathclaws, sentry bots, super mutants and enemies wearing power armor.

I know they have hitmarkers! That's the point! ^^

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Good list! I agree with most. Though i do wanna say since fallout 3, you always had the option to change things before you entered the wastelands, including changing your character and perks. I think they did not do away with such a feature. I am quite happy the got rid of the sliders, and try a better way of customization, sure it'll take more time to make your character, but then again, it is there for those people who are hardcore customizers. I also think the physics are fine, i mean, all you need in a fallout game is heads exploding and a few buckets flying here and there. And the npc' where okay in the last 2 fallout games if you ask me, sure it could use improvement, but in my opinion it isn't critical. These last 2 problems i addressed with my opinion just goes to say that; if it ain't broke or in need of change, do not Fix/change it.

 

I surely would pre-order it and buy a new machine to play it on, as soon as i saw the e3 conference, but the dollar and euro are so damn high compared to the Brazilian Real, i would not be able to pay 1/4 of my salary for the game alone which is 250R$.

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I am personally not going to because like most people of late I have seen that it is generally a bad idea to pre-order. But who knows, maybe I will be proven wrong.

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I am personally not going to because like most people of late I have seen that it is generally a bad idea to pre-order. But who knows, maybe I will be proven wrong.

Lately a lot of games have been completely overhyped and then totally failed.

 

I mean look at X-Rebirth:

I was so totally looking forward to it!

New engine, more open world, walking around in stations, they only removed the ability to fly other ships but that worked well in X-BTF so why would it fail?

Well the character models were the ugliest things I've ever seen, the space highways or what ever they were called were just minigames, the ships on the highway didn't even exist.

It was super hard to find the right docking station, flying was a pain in the ass, etc. etc. etc.

 

Games look good and sound awesome when they're announced and presented, but the things they don't show you are the things you have to be afraid of.

What did Bethesda not mention in their presentation and trailer?

What do we expect to be in the game anyways?

Because the things we expect to be there but were not shown are often the things that are actually missing or broken.

 

An example:

Why do I know that the physics won't be all that awesome?

We saw a shopping cart being pushed away and a vertibird explode ... or did we?

We just saw the shopping cart to fly off and we only saw a vertibird and an explosion effect, but we didn't see the vertibird turn into a pile of rubble!

Why would they not show us the full explosion?

Because there is nothing to show! The rest of the scene probably looks as ugly as it did in Fallout 3. It's not much of a looker.

Of course it's speculation but at things like these I'd give myself a 90% chance that I'm right.

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Is half life 3 worth pre-ordering ?

No.

Was Witcher 3 worth pre-ordering ?

No.

Why ?

Because DON'T PREORDER.

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While you have solid reasons I cannot ignore the company's past issues when releasing their games. I would wait for reviews just in case the game is unplayable. 

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In all honesty no game is worth preordering. 

Sure the trailer looks good and they are promising alot of good things. 

but how many times have that happend before, remember Watch Dogs and their broken promises. 

It is of course Bethesda we're talking about and the chances of being lied to is significantly smaller than other companies. *cough*EA and UBISOFT*cough*
 

The main problem is not knowing what you're actually getting. 

For example 

- based upon the trailer, it looks like the Power armor is only available in set pieces and not something you can run around with. 

- how much better is the dialouge choices since they have gone a "mass effect style", by having a small indication of what the response are, before given us a response that we were not expecting. 

 

and you can speculate for a long time, but the main message is really not trust developers too much, because so many have lied to us. If we keep believing everything they tell us, we are bound to fall into their hype schemes. 

sometimes the game we are promised are good, but most times the hype destroyed the game before it even was released. 

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