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AngryJoesCook

Worrying news about Star Citizen

16 posts in this topic

I just read an extensive online article (see link below) dated from 2 days ago (Oct. 2nd) from The Escapist Magazine about the game's development being allegedly in trouble, says a couple of former and current employees. now before going any further lemme set something straight, and I will beg all of you who read this to keep it in mind until you're done reading: I'm not trying to feed the nervosity this game started to create among some of its backers following its latest absence of any addition of feature or content. I'm not trying to fuel the fire that I'm starting to see spreading out with every week that passes by without any concrete sign of solid advance in the game's development. I am merely flagging a situation (which could even be completely false) that could, if true, potentially result into one of the biggest flop of the gaming industry's history and badly hurt the very core principle of kickstarters in the future. 

 

the article cited 9 former and current Cloud Imperium Games employees, all of which demanded to remain anonymous (that made me immediately suspicious of this article's credibility, but I kept reading) and described rather fallacious practices within the company such as inappropriate behavior from management towards employees, fund mismanagement like Chris Robert buying cars and houses with the game's development's funds and even switching the allocation of the campaigns' funds from the game's actual development to focus on marketing, exposure and public events to keep the money flowing in. they also described a very toxic environment to work in, to the point where employees had no choice but to simply quit because it was too hard, too harsh to handle. 

 

the article went on like this for 3 entire pages. I kept reading up to the last line, hoping to see a rickroll/trolololo link or at least that measures were taken to correct all that was described. unfortunately the only thing I saw was Chris Robert's reported answers to those employees' claims, which felt kinda like the usual corporate bull**** the entire world feeds us up with. I don't know if any of it is real, I don't want to believe it. I myself backed the game for nearly a hundred dollars and I give it all the support I can. I want to see this game succeed at the height of the hype Chris Robert created, and even beyond if possible. I do not forget that Chris Robert promised us a triple-A quality game, the kind that takes 100-200 millions to build and since they're "only" at 89 so far, they most likely still need more to achieve just that. but seeing an article like this after 3 years of development without any substancial release makes me doubt. I can't help it and feel bad for not being able to help it. but it also makes me wonder if we should mobilize the community to hold Cloud Imperium Games accountable, and give us some sort of assurance that we will get something that's worth 89 millions. 

 

in the end, maybe I'm just paranoid. I hope I am. but if any of this is true, remaining placid and letting them run with it is probably the worst thing we, the community, could do.

 

please let me know if it makes sense to you or not.

 

link to the article: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/features/14715-CIG-Employees-Talk-Star-Citizen-and-the-State-of-the-Company

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I've worked in groups where you had to be anonymous to talk badly about them even after quitting because there were bad practices and even the point where the people running it would get hackers/botnets to handle your PC. I'm talking online communities where there's small money to keep it going and not much fuel in the tank. If the report says anything to me, it says to beware the future of the company or even how the game will be in the end. If it's so bad that ex workers demanded to be anonymous I'd assume it's not safe to openly talk about the company or game badly in their eyes. I can understand where they're coming from, too. Either way, I'd hope gaming doesn't see a travesty of these proportions. So many people and so much money is behind this that if it collapses we may even see a relapse in gamers trusting any devs. That's not something I'd ever want to see so I truly hope this whole thing is a blow-over.

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I saw two of the Gamespot staff members Danny O'Dwyer and Josh Shaw post about this two days ago linking to this. So I don't know if I'd necessarily give it any credibility or worry about it, me even less so after seeing the author of the story frequently make disgusting posts online.

 

The involvement of a guy, Derek Smart, who has been trolling the industry for YEARS in things trying to discredit the company makes me even more suspicious of anything said about them.

 

I do not forget that Chris Robert promised us a triple-A quality game, the kind that takes 100-200 millions to build

Well, a decent amount of money in AAA game production is also used for advertisement so the full amount wouldn't necessarily go towards development/QA/etc.

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Yeah, that Derek Smart... I would not trust anything coming outta his mouth.

Should you ever test one of his games and provide feedback with critisism, he will ban you from the steam discussions and revoke your game key.

 

Now about Star Citizen... I've pledge with about $500 and wont deny that I am worried the game wont succeed or even release.

But I'll just sit calm and wait for the actual result. If they do choose to pull the plug, it will suck big time.. But it was an investment that failed. It happens.

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Should you ever test one of his games and provide feedback with critisism, he will ban you from the steam discussions and revoke your game key.

Yeah, or his reactions when it comes to reviewers of his games reporting on actual problems. He's a guy who has had people frequently making fun of his idiotic reactions to things since at least 2006-2007 (that I know of), and he himself has even said, "Sometimes when I get online, and it's quiet, and I see something that attracts my attention, I'll post just to piss these guys off. That's why I do it. Because I'm in a good mood that day, I go in there and I start trouble." I follow Kevin VanOrd on twitter and facebook and he was trying to talk to him every now and then in posts Derek would make on Facebook and Derek is a very strange person who you can never tell if he is just a complete asshole or if he is just trying to get attention. Most likely he became jealous of SC funding after all the failed space titles he has made over the years.

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I've always had serious doubts about this game and the integrity of it's developers.  They've had 3 years and about $100,000,000 of crowdfunding, that's comparable to games like:

 

The Elder Scrolls Skyrim

Grand Theft Auto IV

Max Payne 3

Red Dead Redemption

Metal Gear Solid 5: The Phantom Pain

The Witcher 3 Wild Hunt

 

Yet they are still saying that's not enough to deliver a finished product?

 

 

They are full of shit!  There is no way I would even consider giving them a penny until they deliver something complete and even then I still almost certainly won't.  There are thousands of actually hard working independent gaming companies that would kill for the kind of opportunity that Cloud Imperium have been given here and there are just being totally selfish with it.

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I've always had serious doubts about this game and the integrity of it's developers.  They've had 3 years and about $100,000,000 of crowdfunding, that's comparable to games like:

 

The Elder Scrolls Skyrim

Grand Theft Auto IV

Max Payne 3

Red Dead Redemption

Metal Gear Solid 5: The Phantom Pain

The Witcher 3 Wild Hunt

 

Yet they are still saying that's not enough to deliver a finished product?

 

 

They are full of shit!  There is no way I would even consider giving them a penny until they deliver something complete and even then I still almost certainly won't.  There are thousands of actually hard working independent gaming companies that would kill for the kind of opportunity that Cloud Imperium have been given here and there are just being totally selfish with it.

Keep in mind those games you listed were made over several years with pre-existing engines and assets. Star citizen was a crowd funded project that helped fund the studio for the proper hardware and talent necessary to make the game. They had to create a brand new game engine and new art assets. That takes a lot of time. In fact, 3 years is not bad if you were to actually research each of those titles you mentioned. If you doubt the integrity of this game then by all means you're welcome to your opinion. 

Legolas_Katarn likes this

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Keep in mind those games you listed were made over several years with pre-existing engines and assets. Star citizen was a crowd funded project that helped fund the studio for the proper hardware and talent necessary to make the game. They had to create a brand new game engine and new art assets. That takes a lot of time. In fact, 3 years is not bad if you were to actually research each of those titles you mentioned. If you doubt the integrity of this game then by all means you're welcome to your opinion. 

 

WRONG!!!  It uses the CryEngine, which has been used by companies like Microsoft, Piranha games, Ubisoft, Deep Silver among many others for years.  Of course they use their own original art assets but I expect that with any game project with even a moderate budget.  I actually do my homework.  LINK

 

EDIT:  I feel the need to add more here because this is a game that as a fan of the classic space combat games such as X-Wing vs Tie Fighter, Jedi Starfigher, Decent and in particular Wing Commander (of which some of the same creators are involved) this is a project I should be giddy for....  but all it's relay doing is pissing me off!

 

It angers me to the point if bringing my piss to a boil because this is possibly the most arrogant production of any game to date, a complete con job and here are my reasons why:

 

  1. First they design the game in a way that makes it possible only to those with a freaking supercomputer need apply.
  2. Then expecting people to pay anywhere from £35-£200+ for each ship to fucking "BETA" test it for them.
  3. I put BETA in quotations in the previous statement because this is not a BETA at all, it's a paid demo where the milk and milk each new update for months until it's bone dry then release another Module or Ship pack and milk it all over again! Rinse and repeat!
  4. This is after being given a bloody fortune in donations already!  More than enough to finish the game and they are not delivering on what they promised.
  5. This is what makes me facepalm more than anything, people are actually DEFENDING THIS!  Unable to admit the blatant fraud that's going on here!

 

There are so many other Space Combat games both out now and coming soon that you are better off playing than waiting for this.

 

I am still hoping for the sake of the fans who have invested money in to this awesome idea that I'm wrong. I'm sure that with just a little more patience that the full game will release soon at a reasonable price will all the features in the Kick.........

 

.....Oh Okay! I could even get through that sentence while typing!!  HERE IS THE TRUTH!  People need to stop White Knighting and forgiving all the delays and missteps and start putting pressure on them.  If you don't the game will NEVER make it commercial release, you'll have wasted your money and they will be laughing to the bank!

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I have no real interest in how the game turns out but I am interested in seeing where this goes.

 

'Star Citizen' Developer Threatens Lawsuit Against The Escapist, Demands Apology And Retraction

 

 

The letter in question addresses the majority of the claims reported on by The Escapist, and hurls some accusations right back, calling the allegations “ridiculous, highly slanderous, and easily disproved.” Furthermore, the letter accuses The Escapist of participating in a conspiracy between the author and third parties with the “deliberate intention of inflicting emotional distress and financial harm on the individuals and entities concerned.” If you thought this wasn’t serious, think again.

The conclusion of the letter effectively gave The Escapist a 24 hour period — in which to apologize personally to the developer’s HR manager as well as Sandi Gardiner (who is accused of saying “We aren’t hiring a black girl”), initiate an independent investigation into the production of the original article, and issue a public apology and retraction.

Interestingly, the letter refutes the validity of The Escapist’s vetting process. See, the author claims she used Company ID cards to verify identity, but Cloud Imperium Games claims in their response that CIG “does not issue any company ID cards at any of its studios.” The plot thickens when you see this exchange of tweets suggesting that the ID card the author saw was nothing more than a generic RFID card like this.

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Hmm, interesting read if nothing else. If it wasn't for the fact I had little money (and do not generally like the idea of paying for an unfinished game) I might have bought it already. But as is I think I will wait a bit.

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WRONG!!!  It uses the CryEngine, which has been used by companies like Microsoft, Piranha games, Ubisoft, Deep Silver among many others for years.  Of course they use their own original art assets but I expect that with any game project with even a moderate budget.  I actually do my homework.  LINK

 

EDIT:  I feel the need to add more here because this is a game that as a fan of the classic space combat games such as X-Wing vs Tie Fighter, Jedi Starfigher, Decent and in particular Wing Commander (of which some of the same creators are involved) this is a project I should be giddy for....  but all it's relay doing is pissing me off!

 

It angers me to the point if bringing my piss to a boil because this is possibly the most arrogant production of any game to date, a complete con job and here are my reasons why:

 

  1. First they design the game in a way that makes it possible only to those with a freaking supercomputer need apply.
  2. Then expecting people to pay anywhere from £35-£200+ for each ship to fucking "BETA" test it for them.
  3. I put BETA in quotations in the previous statement because this is not a BETA at all, it's a paid demo where the milk and milk each new update for months until it's bone dry then release another Module or Ship pack and milk it all over again! Rinse and repeat!
  4. This is after being given a bloody fortune in donations already!  More than enough to finish the game and they are not delivering on what they promised.
  5. This is what makes me facepalm more than anything, people are actually DEFENDING THIS!  Unable to admit the blatant fraud that's going on here!

 

There are so many other Space Combat games both out now and coming soon that you are better off playing than waiting for this.

 

I am still hoping for the sake of the fans who have invested money in to this awesome idea that I'm wrong. I'm sure that with just a little more patience that the full game will release soon at a reasonable price will all the features in the Kick.........

 

.....Oh Okay! I could even get through that sentence while typing!!  HERE IS THE TRUTH!  People need to stop White Knighting and forgiving all the delays and missteps and start putting pressure on them.  If you don't the game will NEVER make it commercial release, you'll have wasted your money and they will be laughing to the bank!

Um.. no one is white knighting here. You're just being extremely negative. It is one thing to fairly criticise CiG for Star Citizens progress. It is another to bash them endlessly from every angle. I would highly recommend tuning down on the vitriol. 

 

An important point I have to make to you, even if you don't understand it, is that games are not made overnight.  Three years in development? It hasn't actually been that long yet. Even so, why does every game of this scale have to meet some imagined criteria? Why does this game have to match another? Your comparisons are less about their own merits and struggles during their development process and more about your fabricated bias against star citizen. 

 

See? The real issue here in your posts isn't that someone here is white knighting star citizen. It is that you're trying to tear it down while ignoring logical discussion.

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Um.. no one is white knighting here. You're just being extremely negative. It is one thing to fairly criticise CiG for Star Citizens progress. It is another to bash them endlessly from every angle. I would highly recommend tuning down on the vitriol.

An important point I have to make to you, even if you don't understand it, is that games are not made overnight. Three years in development? It hasn't actually been that long yet. Even so, why does every game of this scale have to meet some imagined criteria? Why does this game have to match another? Your comparisons are less about their own merits and struggles during their development process and more about your fabricated bias against star citizen.

See? The real issue here in your posts isn't that someone here is white knighting star citizen. It is that you're trying to tear it down while ignoring logical discussion.

Ok I seriously have to ask, do you actually know ANYTHING about this project? The Initial crowdfunding began in October 2012 going (supposedly) into full production shortly after so that's..... how many years? In fact pre-production began in 2011 so if you include that it's 4 years so do yourself a favor, spend 2 minutes on Google before trying to call me out again.

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We don't need any leaked sources or evidance, Just look who is making the game and it will all make sense...

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We don't need any leaked sources or evidance, Just look who is making the game and it will all make sense...

Yes, just picture giving Digital Homicide $90 million. Ha Ha!

In all seriousness there are some genuinely talented people in this team and I don't know if the accusations made the Escapist are true and they are threatening legal to try and silence them OR if they are false in which case they have every right to sue them.

In either case they have to the end of this day to respond so we'll know soon enough.

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I've got an update on this situation.  The Escapist have responded to the legal threat from Cloud Imperium Games by editing the original article with the following:

 

 

The Escapist, notwithstanding Cloud Imperium Games' notice and posting, stands by its coverage of Star Citizen and intends to continue to investigate the developing story. Since publishing our original stories, we have been contacted by, and are currently interviewing, additional sources corroborating a variety of the reported allegations. Additionally, if Mr. Roberts' offer for The Escapist to "meet the developers making the game and see how we're building one of the most ambitious PC games first hand" remains open, we take the opportunity to accept such invitation so as to hopefully provide the public with sufficient information and opportunity to vet such sources' allegations and claims for themselves. We have also communicated the foregoing directly to Cloud Imperium Games.

 

Basically they are unfazed and standing by their article along with the sources that have been cited, the method's of obtaining and verifying aforementioned sources and will continue investigate investigate these allegations.

 

To put it more bluntly...  You wanna sue us?

BRING IT BITCH!

 

So the question now is should CIG follow through with their threat?  ReviewTechUSA and Mundame Matt discuss this.  (This was before the Escapist's response was published)

 

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I've got an update on this situation.  The Escapist have responded to the legal threat from Cloud Imperium Games by editing the original article with the following:

 

 

Basically they are unfazed and standing by their article along with the sources that have been cited, the method's of obtaining and verifying aforementioned sources and will continue investigate investigate these allegations.

 

To put it more bluntly...  You wanna sue us?

BRING IT BITCH!

 

So the question now is should CIG follow through with their threat?  ReviewTechUSA and Mundame Matt discuss this.  (This was before the Escapist's response was published)

 

The tl;dw version:  CIG may have boned themselves with their amateur legal moves.  Furthermore, they would be forced to reveal their financials if it ever did go to court.

Part of me is agreeing with the "Where there's smoke, there's fire" mentality.  CIG is making odd moves if they have nothing to hide.  Thankfully, I only gave them about $100 if things do go to shit.

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