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Crazycrab

Oculus Rift Angry Review

39 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Malphisto said:

There's multiple reasons, and just because nobody here is talking about the other nonsensical gimmicks out there doesn't mean they aren't also equally acknowledged as such. Curved TVs simply aren't the topic here. As for the reasons why NOT to buy one?

[/quote]

I know they aren't the topic HERE, my point is that there is more people jumping at the opportunity to denounce this technology than anyone ever did anywhere and everywhere for curved TVs. Based on personal experience... I fully admit thus, if people experienced otherwise and/or wish to contest that, I have no arguments, I'm just saying because when I discuss things, I'm willing to accept and learn from other viewpoints as well.

 

1 hour ago, Malphisto said:



Outside of outlining what I already explained regarding accepted norms turning into barriers that prevent continued innovation, the fact of the matter is that this is once more a mass production paid beta test. No one actually knows what prolonged use of these things will do to a person both physically and mentally. I can already determine what some of those reports will end up being.

1: Neck Pain/Neck related problems.
2: Sensory Disorders. (Eye Problems)
3: Seizures. (Not like normal gaming doesn't already have this problem, this would definitely HUGELY increase these odds)
4: Psychological Disorders. (Pushing that isolation factor to the extreme is sure to have some fun long term side effects for folks)
5: $600-$300 could easily be spent on something else?
6: Its doesn't really offer that big of a difference for the experience. (I mean come the hell on, "Virtual Desktop"? Is ANY of this REALLY necessary? -_- )

[/quote]

1: I am not someone who thinks that anything Joe says is something that makes god shove Moses aside and say 'These are teh new stones, err commandments chumps!" or whatever. But I sincerely believe he isn't lying thru his teeth where he says he and other Joe experienced no neck pain or whatever. I imagine this depends on the individual, OFC, however I suspect you are hearing reports from people complaining about these issues earlier in development than those given to Joe to 'review' for consumer quality release. Regardless of if you think the product is more like Joe's opinion, or whatever complaints you are referring to, the point is Joe made this review to offer an opinion on this product to confirm or deny these very issues.. and he offered his regarding this very matter... I personally have not worn a visual headset yet, and I have never claimed they do or do not do any of these things, or have looked amazing, or anything like that. I fully intend to try one before I buy it (I still do that with ordinary headphones ffs..and that's becoming really hard because retailers refuse to let you try them because of lice or whatever). But unless I personally experience said issues for myself, I wont assume them to be true issues for me personally.

 

Even if the current release of this product does cause neck pain or whatever, denouncing the entire technology 'because it isn't real VR' or whatever has nothing to do with this factor. Newer/ more refined releases can easily solve this issue, and that will do nothing regarding your argument. If you personally feel the consumer release version is painful for the neck...I'd like to hear about it, at the very least to add to my gauge of how many complain about such and how many people seem stubborn about opposing said release regardless of said issue. Is this your personal experience or is this theoretical?

 

2: Pretty much the same issue as above...this is a potential issue, not a proven one...It's not even a personal one as far as I know regarding your opinion... you make it sound like a potential issue and assume it's 100% fact when frankly I don't have any idea how real it is. Joe's video makes an effort to inform potential consumers, so why complain about it? these are questions  people might ask that this video is FOR... I say this as someone in a steam group who loathe joe..someone who supports the steamgroup, not as an infiltrator or whatever.

 

3: you do realize the defacto barrier between beta and consumer release were the health issues caused by the device.... I'm not claiming they are 100% gone, but I don't know why you would denounce this product because of this issue and not have a similar stance on Sword Art Online's early technology (I don't even know why you had to provide a video of it or whatever, it's not like it's the first fictional concept of true VR ever or whatever, just saying). Yes, current games already provide warnings regarding seizures. VR PROBABLY increases this risk, I agree...but claiming the entire product is 'a stupid gimmick' because of such? where is the line? do tell? Can you prove it? I don't think you can... if you can, I'd like to hear about it, I'm not going to say I know it's false or anything, I really want to hear about it because like I said, I'm interested in this technology if and when it reaches generation 2 or 3 and goes down in price and goes up in compatibility... But by that point I'd like to know of all the potential issues and be mindful of how I can research if they're applicable to me... But blindly assuming they are a deal killer is simply wrong IMO.

 

4: everything I said in previous points is applicable here. Bear in mind I've been a gamer since the 80s and I've heard this shit argument the entire time...you know... the more this technoglogy becomes MORE 'real' like Virtual reality in your example of sword art online.. the MORE this becomes an issue... so CALLING it an issue NOW adds to its credibility more than destroys it... seriously...

5: Not high end tools for visualizing entertainment... that's for sure... If you want to compare it to something other than visualization of electronic entertainment, you can easily say the same thing about current 'accepted' technology.

6: I don't even know what virtual desktop is, but I don't buy a brand new gaming rig for a desktop... somehow I think that's a cherry picked example. I CAN think of people spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars only to make their TV bigger using otherwise the same technology/software... I fail to see how this is any different without being more significant in the field of view department.

 

 

1 hour ago, Malphisto said:

Outside of all that? No, not much else stopping someone from buying one I suppose. Though that list provides plenty enough reason for me at least. That's just my opinion, at any rate.

Your list is a great list for reasons to doubt the product IMO. It's a good checklist to look at to confirm or deny the product... Do you have personal experience confirming them as an issue? If you do I wont argue that, I have no personal experience myself, and these are in fact th ings I would like to consider before forking over hundreds of bucks for something. But as someone with no experience, I will not blindly accept them as true issues either. The entire video regarding this entire topic pretty much addresses these issues to some extent. I would not suggest buying something based on the opinion of one guy or channel, but... blah, I think I made my point already.

 

 

1 hour ago, Rain said:

Oh come on lol. But ok, going with your theory of increased financial backing, what more can they possibly do besides increase resolution and 3D capabilities? That's all they do in the gaming world and that will only mean we get to spend even more money on component updates to make sure its compatible, not to mention another possible new device. It's just like pushing 3D movies on everyone, most people hate it and only the select few pay the extra for it.

 

And like both Malphisto and I said, it's already got a very minor target audience having such high requirements. Sure a lot of us here have the rigs to handle this thing, but the majority do not and never will. So dumping even more money where they won't even get a decent RoI unless they tack on a ridiculous price tag doesn't make sense. And downgrading visuals won't help because what's the point in looking at sub-480p in full view when that's worse than normal vision? If this VR is going to survive it won't be because of gamers.

The cost is the same. However, Oculus takes a damn near fully updated PC to run it and at the moment it's cost effective. It will be another year or two before the recommended components start to become decently priced, but that's just "recommended". At the same time TVs are constantly getting cheaper with even higher resolutions coming out. Hell I paid $2200 years ago for my Samsung 55" LED and now its like $1200-1500 or something like that. With gaming out of the equation for VR, what's the point of having a crazy field of view for navigating Windows? Even if they gave you gloves to have motion interaction...see now I'm trying to explain things that don't exist. My point is, Kinect 10.0.

 

I don't even know where to start with this for someone who admits to spending over 2grand just for a larger screen... how can you not see the beneficial applications of getting a better Field of View at a better resolution  for less than half the cost AFTER it aged and halved in price?

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21 minutes ago, Ghaleon said:

 

I don't even know where to start with this for someone who admits to spending over 2grand just for a larger screen... how can you not see the beneficial applications of getting a better Field of View at a better resolution  for less than half the cost AFTER it aged and halved in price?

Same reason I buy cars brand new, it's new and improved. The difference is phenomenal in gaming and movies when comparing LCD and LED. I understand completely where you're coming from though, field of view makes a huge difference as does resolution. But it's probably just the old school in me that doesn't want something strapped to my head making me oblivious to everything else. It would be just like the Kinect for me, use it a few times then never touch it again and that doesn't justify a purchase because it will turn into a waste of money...speaking for myself that is. 

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6 minutes ago, Ghaleon said:

I know they aren't the topic HERE, my point is that there is more people jumping at the opportunity to denounce this technology than anyone ever did anywhere and everywhere for curved TVs. Based on personal experience... I fully admit thus, if people experienced otherwise and/or wish to contest that, I have no arguments, I'm just saying because when I discuss things, I'm willing to accept and learn from other viewpoints as well.

 

1: I am not someone who thinks that anything Joe says is something that makes god shove Moses aside and say 'These are teh new stones, err commandments chumps!" or whatever. But I sincerely believe he isn't lying thru his teeth where he says he and other Joe experienced no neck pain or whatever. I imagine this depends on the individual, OFC, however I suspect you are hearing reports from people complaining about these issues earlier in development than those given to Joe to 'review' for consumer quality release. Regardless of if you think the product is more like Joe's opinion, or whatever complaints you are referring to, the point is Joe made this review to offer an opinion on this product to confirm or deny these very issues.. and he offered his regarding this very matter... I personally have not worn a visual headset yet, and I have never claimed they do or do not do any of these things, or have looked amazing, or anything like that. I fully intend to try one before I buy it (I still do that with ordinary headphones ffs..and that's becoming really hard because retailers refuse to let you try them because of lice or whatever). But unless I personally experience said issues for myself, I wont assume them to be true issues for me personally.

 

Even if the current release of this product does cause neck pain or whatever, denouncing the entire technology 'because it isn't real VR' or whatever has nothing to do with this factor. Newer/ more refined releases can easily solve this issue, and that will do nothing regarding your argument. If you personally feel the consumer release version is painful for the neck...I'd like to hear about it, at the very least to add to my gauge of how many complain about such and how many people seem stubborn about opposing said release regardless of said issue. Is this your personal experience or is this theoretical?

 

2: Pretty much the same issue as above...this is a potential issue, not a proven one...It's not even a personal one as far as I know regarding your opinion... you make it sound like a potential issue and assume it's 100% fact when frankly I don't have any idea how real it is. Joe's video makes an effort to inform potential consumers, so why complain about it? these are questions  people might ask that this video is FOR... I say this as someone in a steam group who loathe joe..someone who supports the steamgroup, not as an infiltrator or whatever.

 

3: you do realize the defacto barrier between beta and consumer release were the health issues caused by the device.... I'm not claiming they are 100% gone, but I don't know why you would denounce this product because of this issue and not have a similar stance on Sword Art Online's early technology (I don't even know why you had to provide a video of it or whatever, it's not like it's the first fictional concept of true VR ever or whatever, just saying). Yes, current games already provide warnings regarding seizures. VR PROBABLY increases this risk, I agree...but claiming the entire product is 'a stupid gimmick' because of such? where is the line? do tell? Can you prove it? I don't think you can... if you can, I'd like to hear about it, I'm not going to say I know it's false or anything, I really want to hear about it because like I said, I'm interested in this technology if and when it reaches generation 2 or 3 and goes down in price and goes up in compatibility... But by that point I'd like to know of all the potential issues and be mindful of how I can research if they're applicable to me... But blindly assuming they are a deal killer is simply wrong IMO.

 

4: everything I said in previous points is applicable here. Bear in mind I've been a gamer since the 80s and I've heard this shit argument the entire time...you know... the more this technoglogy becomes MORE 'real' like Virtual reality in your example of sword art online.. the MORE this becomes an issue... so CALLING it an issue NOW adds to its credibility more than destroys it... seriously...

5: Not high end tools for visualizing entertainment... that's for sure... If you want to compare it to something other than visualization of electronic entertainment, you can easily say the same thing about current 'accepted' technology.

6: I don't even know what virtual desktop is, but I don't buy a brand new gaming rig for a desktop... somehow I think that's a cherry picked example. I CAN think of people spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars only to make their TV bigger using otherwise the same technology/software... I fail to see how this is any different without being more significant in the field of view department.

 

 

Your list is a great list for reasons to doubt the product IMO. It's a good checklist to look at to confirm or deny the product... Do you have personal experience confirming them as an issue? If you do I wont argue that, I have no personal experience myself, and these are in fact th ings I would like to consider before forking over hundreds of bucks for something. But as someone with no experience, I will not blindly accept them as true issues either. The entire video regarding this entire topic pretty much addresses these issues to some extent. I would not suggest buying something based on the opinion of one guy or channel, but... blah, I think I made my point already.

I didn't want to do individual quotes.

I apologize if I gave the impression I was accusing you of being just a Joe follower, I didn't think I was saying anything that would infer such about anyone. And I'm personally a fan of the show and take pride in being a member of the Angry Army, so to clarify nothing I've said here was intended to sound like I was against Joe's video. I actually quite approve of him doing hardware reviews. Also didn't think there was anything wrong with his review of the Rift, either. He covered basically everything that folks should know about it.

 

That being said, you kept making mention in regards to my list that these were things not known because the Rift hasn't been out long enough. If you take notice, prior to my list I pointed this out myself and the list itself reflects that. These are things we don't know but that are possibilities. There just isn't enough data regarding long term usage of these things. As for what I based this list on? Simple medical research. The Oculus Rift weighs 470g which translates to 1.03617 pounds. That weight is centered on your face, meaning your neck muscles will be activated to compensate while wearing it. In addition to this, the camera movement is dependent on you moving your head around. So while this shouldn't be a problem for those who only use it for short periods of time, those who are wearing it for extended periods are going to be more prone to having neck related problems. Even headaches triggered by those muscles knotting up. And if you find yourself doing those snap motions with your head to look at something there is also the chance to pull said muscles.

 

And for those dropping $600 on this thing? Or hell, even $300, I doubt most of those folks plan on only using the thing for short bursts, especially if they get heavily invested playing with others while using it.

 

Everything on that list is rooted in scientific fact. I didn't claim them to be 100% true problems but rather making the very real point that they are all possibilities that need to be addressed. To my knowledge, there has been no case study done on the long term usage of this hardware. If there has been I would very much like to see what the results were, considering the fact that we're talking about a commercial product being made available to the general public. But if such research has never been done, then what we have here is a text book example of how these companies only wish to cash in while using the consumers, or in this case the early adopters, as basically guinea pigs to do the testing for them. That's a practice that I do not approve of nor support.

 

Also, with regards to the example of Sword Art Online, that takes place in a world where technology and society itself have advanced enough to the point where its acceptable. In SAO, such VR gaming experiences are integrated with other aspects of reality itself. This is best seen during the events of Gun Gale Online where the eSports scene is very clearly evolved and events aren't just broadcasted across the net and other such games as well but where players can even make a financial living. There is less isolation in this situation, in fact the social medium itself has expanded to the point where entire families are involved in such things.

 

The sad truth is that our society is progressing at a slower rate than our technology. Humans are not ready for this yet and there is no telling what will come of it. Our species has not evolved enough to handle this concept.

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7 hours ago, Jayson's Rage said:

Yes, but you're forgetting something. Porn is backing the VR industry as well. When the Porn Industry backs something, it explodes (pun seriously not intended but I fail to thing of another word right now lol)

Seriously though, when the Gaming AND Porn industry back something, that thing is going to get insane attention and financial backing to become better.

 

I think your reading from a old rule book there, Porn may have helped VHS beat Betamax back in the 80's but that was a long time ago.  In more recent times they backed HD-DVD over Blu-Ray and look how well that worked out!

 

Of course we will be seeing pornographic content in VR but nobody is going to by a VR kit for the sake of jacking off a few minutes faster.  It's gaming that is sell these units not Porn.

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Uh, I could have SWORN that they backed BluRay, even though HDDVD was actually better. lol

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22 hours ago, Glaice said:

He's branching out into too many different things and I have zero interest in VR gimmickery.

Wow that is harsh ! You don't like that Joe is doing something outside your narrow and selfish point of view ? I have a solution for you, don't watch it. Satisfaction guaranteed.

Also could you predict my future for about 3-4 years forward because I really need to know and it seems like you have those kinds of powers if you know that VR is a gimmick before it actually hit the mass market.

Crazycrab likes this

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To be honest, I don't even watch other Youtube channels that do tech reviews, they just don't interest me. And yea, I didn't bother with the video, same goes for any other videos (IE movie reviews) that are uninteresting to me.

Also selfish? How is stating my opinion selfish now? We're not a hivemind, mind you.

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Ok, some of those games look really cool...but what about those of us who wear glasses.

Just for reference I couldn't even see my monitors if I took them off...no, worse than that, I can't even read my keyboard.

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I can really see the argument on how VR is just a gimmick based on what Rain is saying. Being someone who bought and played with the PS Move. I bought the whole shebang when it came to the move. I have two Move Controllers, two of the Nunchucks (or whatever they're called), the dock charger, and the Move Sharpshooter (which up to this day I have yet to use). Early use of the Move was fun. I played through the entirety of Killzone 3 and Heavy Rain with it, my mom and I played tennis from that demo disc, and I loved that gladiator fighting from Sports Champions. Even bought Resident Evil 5 Gold and No More Heroes with every intention of playing it with the Move and the Sharpshooter. But when I played other games that didn't support the Move, I never went back.

 

However, that being said, I will say that the failing of Motion Control is because it didn't always work well with the games, the Kinect is especially guilty of this. The Wii got flooded with shovelware that used the motion controls too, which I think hurt motion controls even more. It's because of this that people started to dislike motion controls. In the end, less and less developers made games that supported motion controls. I think it depends on the games that support VR for its success. At this point, apparently VR works well with EvE Valkyrie (according to Joe at least) and on some games. The appeal of a cheaper Oculus / VR Headset will be very dependent on the early games and the reaction of the early adopters.

 

I also understand the whole Headset vs Curved Screen argument. Personally think that wearing the headset and having the game environment around you beats a curved screen that ends (unless of course you're using a multi-monitor setup that goes around you, or you have something like this:

Xian_scout__ship_cockpit_01.jpg

I remember seeing a Gundam series / movie that had this sort of cockpit. Course the ultimate would be the cockpits like in G-Gundam where you pretty much see everything around you, and can do whatever action you're doing inside. But for that you'll also have to wear a full body suit.

 

in which case, 1. fucking awesome, and 2.  give me money so I can build my dream PC). But as pointed out before, there are people who will take issue with having to wear something against not.

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Imagine VR with something like the old Steel Battalion controller *squeal*

1280px-Steel_Battalion_controllers.jpg

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2 hours ago, Jayson's Rage said:

Imagine VR with something like the old Steel Battalion controller *squeal*

1280px-Steel_Battalion_controllers.jpg

Think that for that to work, the controller itself also has to be scanned in or have some sensors too, so when you look down, you can see the controls too. But then again, they'll also have to do the same for the player's hands. Cuz if not, then the player has to memorize the controller layout I think.

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First of all. Its a huge gimmick. And a good marketed gimmick that is. I've seen people complaining a lot about what people seem to not address here: the lack of games. Or even more so, there are game but most of them are of the casual things same with what kinect/psmove used to offer. Moreover there is no prospect for triple A gaming/core gaming to become popular with "vr" anytime soon.

Second of all, its still a huge gimmick. It adds to immersion. And thats all. You pay 400/600/800 dollars to become more immersed in a game, a thing which mind you, was happening even before VR(games like skyrim or metro are just an example). I dont give a crap about immersion if the game is shit. AC unity had one of the most immersive worlds out there. But it also had tons of bugs, glitches, the gameplay was repetitive, and the story was ass. Immersion is not everything.

Third of all it's just a gimmick. People have been comparing this thing with multiple monitor setups and whatnot. Lemme tell you something as a fellow 2 monitor user. People rarely use multiple monitors for gaming. Most of them use 1 monitor for gaming, and the second monitor, or the other 2(if the have a triple screen setup) are used for multi tasking. There are SOME who use multiple monitors for gaming, but thats kinda demanding on the hardware and in the end not really worth it. Most of them prefer to use them for multi tasking or, if they wanna game on a huge ass screen they can just buy an ultrawidescreen montior.

Last of all, it adds almost nothing substantially to a game. A lot of people can get immersed into good books, and books dont even have pictures or something. They're just words. A lot of people can get immersed into movies (without a huge ass cinema screen if they watch at home that is), if the movie is good, and even without 3d mind you. A lot of people can get immersed into video games if the said video games are properly done and developed. If a game is, its bad. An immersion gadget will not help it become better. 

Now if this is gonna become big or not, that I can't say for certain. But as it is, VR is just riding on the hype of the buyers/possible buyers. Its just a hype machine, and I dont know where it will lead. Kinect/psmove were the same when they got launched. Everyone was hyped about it and in the end it flopped. People will sooner or later realize(either this or the buyer's remorse will finally kick in) that it adds almost nothing to a game. At the moment what VR adds to a game(thats if we try to imagine that current triple A games support it, which they dont), is something that all of us can live without. I get the feeling that both the "redditors" and the big gadget enthusiasts) who try to defend this are in fact trying to justify their purchase, or they think that it will be (to quote nintendo, the master of gimmicks) REVOLUTIONARY, are actually fooling themselves when in the end it adds little to nothing to a game.

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Personally I don't give a shit about VR and probably won't be getting it, but whether it is shit now then I think it doesn't matter. One day, current VR will be the base for building upon a more advanced VR or maybe something even better. VR is completely new right now. A lot of technology is pretty unstable and lots of people don't like it, but once it's more polished in near or further future, people will probably be going crazy for this. Movies will be filmed for this shit so maybe you will be able to be a camera in a movie and just move around and rotate around everywhere, feeling like you are trully there or some shit.

 

There are no good games for it, but there will be in future (I suppose), if this shit gets any attention right now. I mean, VR right now might be crap, but maybe in a year or so, someone will take it and build something 10x better than it. What could you do on the first computers? Not much, right? It was so basic, but later it became more advanced and easier to access and look at PCs today.  Now I'm sure same shit will happen with VR and one day it will be easier to access, it will work on all games and it will be cheaper. So, even if I don't give a fuck about it personally now and I also think it's bullshit for this price, but in future it might bring something a lot better. I can imagine only 2 things happening with VR: either it falls down to abyss or it gets improved in future as in, easier accessability for everyone, much cheaper and a lot more compatible with all games. 

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Also Alexander452, responding to my criticism with a meme? Isn't that just a bit immature since you could not type out a reasonable reply?

I also remember in the past the industry tried VR and it went nowhere, mainly due to the lack of supported games as Rasph mentioned.

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