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TheDycer

July 1v1 Feedback

11 posts in this topic

The AJSA July League of Legends 1v1 tournament wrapped up Sunday night with Icesoul beating Lazyboon 2-1 to take the title. Now that everyone is settled down, I would like to hear your thoughts on this tournament and some ideas that may be implemented in the next one.

First, how did you like the current format? Was it exciting to play and/or watch? Was the tournament too long for just one block of time? Where the global bans fair, and do you think there were too many or too little? What problems would you like to see addressed moving forward?

Now moving onto future stuff:

Howling Abyss: There was some chatter about playing the 1v1s on this map and just playing for a nexus takedown. I do think that would make for an interesting tournament, but would play much slower and limit picks to strong pushing/tower taking champions. If this was to happen the Semifinals would be the start of the main stream and rounds before that would be played in the week prior with strict deadlines for the matches. Remember, a key part of howling abyss is no basing so that also needs to be taken into consideration.

Future Seeding: I talked about this a little during the tournament stream. My personal plan is to give the top 4 contestants "Legend" status. The place they finished will be their seeding in the next tournament. This will give them a higher chance to score a bye in the opening round, and possibly have a better draw of early opponents depending on the number of participants we have in the next tournament. I feel success and hard work should be rewarded and not reset going into the next event. Also, players who made it to the quarterfinals in the tournament will have an extra "ticket" to get drawn into the next tier of seeds. Everyone who entered this tournament will get one ticket on their entry into the next one, and anyone new entering in will only be put in the drawing for the lower seeds. This is an example 24 participant bracket: http://challonge.com/hy32v94v. In that bracket you see how seeds would be laid out; the untitled slots could have anyone fill them.

Future participant numbers: If you didn't get the hint from above, I am thinking of raising the cap on the participant numbers to 32. If that were to happen, no matter the map played, the opening round would be played off stream during the week prior to the main event. All of those games would need to have a member of the AJSA club view them and at least one screenshot of the win condition sent in a PM on the forum. With more aggressive advertisement especially on the LoL forums we could hit that cap easily, but it would also be a Platinum and under tournament if we decide to go this route for obvious reasons.

Future prizes: If the tournament were to expand, the prize values at the higher end could increase, and will if I continue sponsoring the event. If the AJSA takes over sponsoring, I have no clue what the prize structure would be, and really could only give advice on what it should be. That I think will be decided in the coming weeks. The major thing we would have to worry about with the prizes is sustainability. 

I think wraps up everything. Comment with your constructive thoughts and any criticisms. I know this is not perfect yet so any feedback is welcome. 

 

TheTitan likes this

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One thing I did feel is that the wait between games was large. Maybe more people streaming could have solved the issue. Lets say we got 2 streams; Titan's stream and the Official Angry Joe stream (That's a thing right?). That way, we could get through the games faster. Also a losers bracket would be nice since that would allow the losers to keep playing until the Finals where the winner of the Winners Bracket went against the winner of the Losers Bracket. 

That's just my suggestions, tell me what y'all think of them.

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A two stream setup would work for a double elimination tournament. The structure for the games after the first round was to give breaks to players while also allowing them to watch their future opponents. If you had a chance to see how your opponent aims/reacts to skill shots or when they would use their summoner spells before you entered a match with them, wouldn't you take it? There was also a stretch where I think 4/6 games in a row went nearly to 20min; that lengthened the time between matches a lot more than expected. 

Now onto the second point. Double Elimination can work, but it would lengthen the tournament. A double elimination can be argued to be the more fair tournament so there is a viable reason to move to that format. And it can work, but it will require a lot of oversight with admins overseeing basically a week of matches. In that situation you would most likely only air the matches starting when there are a total of 8 people left in both brackets combined and with a second channel you can start after the quarter finalists get knocked down into the loser's bracket. But with all of that extra time and demands on the players there would need to be an increase in the prize pool to compensate. You can stop reading here if you want because everything in the next wall of text are my thoughts as an organizer giving a more in depth look at the structure of a theoretical double elimination.

 

To follow along with this post from here on out, you will want to refer to this sample 16 player double elimination bracket I made: http://challonge.com/rerb2vau. Let's go. For the duo stream/no loser's stream scenario the main event will be Round 3 starting on the main channel  and losers round 3 starting on the secondary channel. With the casting and coverage taking into account, both of those rounds will last roughly 45-50min determined from data haphazardly collected on Sunday. The next round in the winners bracket would be the ideal time to start the best of threes because of the higher average skill in the brackets and frankly it will probably the two best players playing in that spot.  That matchup will last nearly 60min. The best of threes will start in the loser's round 5 and at that time the main channel will pick up the loser's bracket stream. Once again pencil in an hour. You then move into the Loser's final which would roughly be an hour before the grandfinal which can be as long as 2 hours if the winner's bracket finalist loses the first best of three. So  in this scenario you get another 5 hour tournament so if the games last as long as average with the finalist waiting 2 hours to play in their final match(es) on top of probably a week of matches. Even if you start with the winner's semis and loser's round four, and cut an hour out of the main event, you still have that one player waiting way too long. To make this worthwhile, the top end prizes have to be greatly increase because you are causing a major inconvenience to the top tier players not just with the wait, but also with the matches they have to play earlier in the week and can't miss. In this scenario, the opportunity cost for the top players is massive. You are looking at a minimum of $150 for 1st and $100-120 for 2nd to make their invest of time worthwhile. Is that sustainable without an entry fee or donations? I don't think so unless this becomes a quarterly/bi-monthly thing. And this doesn't even address the casters' or admins' time which is donated. 

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True. I still do have one question though. The Tourney we had was originally of 16 players (Though 2 spots weren't filled and 1 person didn't show up). Do you think enough people will join. I mean despite having 35 people follow the forum, we only got 13 in the tourney.

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We still had 14. One of the players who responded in the forums never made it clear that he wanted to play in the tournament in his post. So 15 signed, 1 no show, and that was without Rioters helping advertise. I did not go that route on the opening one because the rules that got approved did have rank restrictions and I didn't want a lone challenger destroying the tournament for everyone, 

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Aight, your logic is sound. Hey if you need help, I could type up a forum post advertising the next tourney if you give me the details that I need to put into the post. 

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I personally like it on summoners rift, and howling abyss is switching power picks all together, AOE champions are really good there considering how small the lane is. 

adpop likes this

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I agree with Raven I believe that Howling Abyss would be less entertaining. Not only because of the different build paths you would have to take into consideration, but Because it would end the rush of hearing First blood and winning once you've landed the final blow.

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Feel like Howling Abyss would limit what champs you could play since u can't recall, making some picks really bad in certain match ups (if people don't know what they are picking into and lose on champion select). But it could be something we play a few times over Summoner's Rift to see something new I guess, but would need different global bans imo.

Double elimination would be okay but as you said it would lengthen the stream time to maybe something undesirable (past midnight and players probably wouldn't enjoy that either) but maybe it'll be okay if there's 2 streams.

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The Angry Joe Show official channel isnt something that is commonly associated with the AJSA but there is an AJSAGaming channel which was the setup we wanted to do for this past tourney. Which would have left one individual who does not commonly play the game left to shoutcast. So as of this moment until i can find other big name shoutcasters or other high ranking AJSA Streamers to assist one stream will be what we have to work with. 

Also just to help voice some other opinions 

Removing global bans or changing the selection process for them

RuneX likes this

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The purpose of the global bans is just to remove the insanely strong/unfair solo laners that would probably be banned nearly every match or require some sort of hard counter to win. We could hold a poll, but once again, if you had a limit of 5, I think most of the champions in this tournament's list would be on the ban list for the next one unless Riot changes them massively by then.

 

I am also toying with the idea of having an optional "loser's" games for those who get knocked out starting in the round of 16 to increase their seeding. You gain nothing else other than more practice. 

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