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Apex Spartan

Could Star Citizen meet the same fate as No Man's Sky?

14 posts in this topic

I've been thinking about this for a while, specially since the complete scandal and failure of No Man's Sky. The biggest hype of the year or 2, the biggest shit to hit gaming, the REAL SHIT, the REAL SPACE GAME to offer the biggest universe ever....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And we get this

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A bullshit lie. Not even 60% of the game that was promised.

 

 

 

 

What were our initial hypes and thoughts?

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Bullshit about taking years to explore a vast rich universe, big as an ocean and deep as a piss puddle.

 

 

 

tumblr_ob3dvp6s9M1v3nz95o1_1280.png

 

They literally lied and mad demos of a fake game. A indie fuckin developer had the balls to make a shit game, yet promote as a triple A game and had the balls to sell it at 60 FUCKING DOLLARS?!

Fans of this game and supporters were bashing and went on burning crusades against people who spoke bad of this game, of people who knew that it was too good to be true. Some guy paid a $1000 to play this fuckin' game earlier. I bet after he finished it, he was probably holding Bleach next to himself.

 

 

I'll be straight up honest: there is no developer or game I really hate, I dislike some and all that, but holy shit, fuck Hello Games, fuck Sean Murray and his lies.

 

 

 

 

There is only one game so far that kind of reminds me of what No Man's Sky was and it's Star Citizen. Now first I wanna make something clear, I don't have any bad thoughts on SC. I think it's a great concept and a great game and all, but I'm skeptical about it. I was skeptical about NMS and it turned out I was right about it and failure of NMS only confirmed and made my skepticism of Star Citizen even stronger.

 

Now for everyone in AJSA who is a supporter of SC, please don't get mad or think I'm bashing on the game. I just really wanna have a civil discussion and see what everyone's thoughts on SC are.

 

Please correct me if I put any wrong or outdated information, as I don't follow this game every day, but when I see news about it, I read it.

 

 

Anyway, let's go talk about it...

 

First, my honest thoughts on it:

1. Do I think it looks great? I think it's 11/10.

2. Do the demos look great? I think they look awesome!

3. Does it look like a vast huge universe? I do and it looks beautiful.

4. Do I like all the features and details in the game? I love it!

Then why are you so skeptical about it? Exactly because it's just tons of information, tons of demos, tons of videos, tons of models and that's it. I've seen some great gameplay of it, but it were all demos. The ACTUAL Youtubers, people who have access to the game and it's modules, their game isn't even close to what Robert and his people post on Youtube. Should that make me be skeptical? Yes and no.

 

I know that Robert and his people work on the game so they always have access to the newer stuff, but damn, this game has been in development for years. People have donated millions of dollars, bought those spaceships that cost from a 100 to a 1000 dollars to support it and the game has this weird model of being released in "modules", piece by piece and all put together, it's still a glitchy and a buggy mess with bugged servers and connections and crashes. I know it's in alpha, but I'm saying it's been years and still it's not bursting with content or anything.

 

 

Since 2012 till 2013, in just a year, they raised over 9 million. Since then till now, through private backing and support, they raised over ONE HUNDERED AND TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS! 120 MILLION!

That is a lot of FREAKING money. A fuckin lot! I think it's way too much, even for a such a demanding and huge project as Star Citizen.

 

From what I see on their website now, you can visit a city on a planet and few other PVE stuff, nothing major, not even near and the only PVP stuff you can do, is something you can do in any cheap unpopular or popular PVP game: Capture the flag, 5v5 teamfights and few other stuff including the FPS module and few minor things like encounters and everything.

There is also a arena for flying ships and testing them out.

 

So with all this money, since 2012, that's the only thing they managed to come up with? I mean, if SC was some normal small game then I would be very skeptical here and would even think it's a fraud, but since it's such a big game apparently, I can understand -- partially.

 

However, Robert claims this to be saviour of PC gaming and THE "PC GAME". Things that are just unecessary. First, savior of PC Gaming? From last time I heard, nobody said PC gaming is dying or even close to, unless they are just some uneducated haters of the platform for some reason. PC gaming just won't die so I don't know why its necessary to promote the game as some kind of Jesus of PC. I suppose if I tried to interpret it, he meant he just wants a pure PC game not held back by "bureaucracy" of other companies and doesn't wanna be held back by consoles which is perfectly fine, but that doesn't make it a saviour. There is many games like that out there.

 

Another thing that bothers me and just absoulutely blows my mind ,is that he promotes it as a pure PC game and just everything that should be good for gaming and yet...

 

45ac0c3ac69243c8bcff9bcadae6fc4c.png

 

Okay, so I have to pay around 60 dollars and euros to play a game that barely has any content to keep you properly entertained. It's the classic, "You support us now with 60 dollars, but we promise to update the game and complete it." It's the classic generic marketing that comes out of other indie studios that just want to pull in as much money as possible. Not to mention, some people buy those 1000 dollar ships to play the game and support it, yet they force "non-supporters" to have to pay a triple A price for a completely unfinished game.

 

This game has the same model, even slightly worse, than those generic asian MMORPGs, coming out to west, promoted as WOW killers and offering people to buy their 50-100 dollar founders pack to have access to the unfinished game. Very bad practice. I wouldn't call this a saviour of anything.

 

 

What kills it for me completely, is that the SP campaing part of the game -- costs extra and is sold seperately

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I can't take a person and a company that raised over 120 million dollars to sell me a game at full price, that's unfinished and sell it seperately...I can't take that as saviour of anything. This is just generic marketing and no matter how well PROMOTED this game is, since it's being promoted as the best game to ever hit PC and the biggest, even that is just a promotion. A vision of what is apparently to come. In other words, it's NMS, but at least NMS didn't come in a 100 modules. It just came out a shitty game that was promoted as the biggest and best universe exploration game to date. Huuh...that turned out to be great.

 

Now please correct me if I'm wrong, but a year ago someone in the forums said that the game will be sold as a whole, once all modules are out? Even if that's true, I still find this a very generic marketing for a company that raised so much money and to still wanna almost "beg" for more with this kind of marketing. It just makes me wonder, they have so much money, yet the game is being released in this weird modules that don't offer lots of gameplay when they are put together.

 

 

 

Anyway, I could keep on talking about other things about it, but I don't wanna turn it into another "Star Citizen hate talk" or shit like that, because I don't hate the game and I got no reason for it. In fact, I'm really wanting for it to succeed, but I can't support something that has so many flaws (at least in my point of view) with it's marketing and bussiness model. After  the failure of No Man's Sky, the game that was in a way very hyped up just as much as Star Citizen, finally came out in the light and showed it's true face.

 

 

 

HOWEVER..

The positive sides to Star Citizen are numerous:

1. Chris Roberts. He did create Wing Commander, which was a great game for it's time and the guy has some experience unlike those liars at Hello Games.

2. From what I can see, at least to some extent, CR is being open with community and is showing the progress of the game and how it's going and future plans.

3. Playable version of the game which keeps on being updated.

 

 

Now these are some points that I personally hold valid and that give me a plus side to Star Citizen, but that doesn't mean it still excuses the fact that the game is progressing so slowly, despite so much money and studios behind it. They are now as big as a triple A company, or at least should be, if they spent this money correctly.

 

As I said, I'm excited for this game and I really want it to succeed, but since the scandal with No Man's Sky, Star Citizen might end up in a similar spot, HOWEVER, as I said, it has some more valid points unlike No Man's Sky.

 

Once again, don't take this as  a hate on SC. I just really want to see some honest and constructive critisim on my post here and some honest opinions on Star Citizen and will it really reach the goal that it planned for itself. Because personally, with this amount of backers, money and studios....you should be able to unless you already made it too impossible or not doing something right..

 

 

 

 

 

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Star Citizen is a bullshit robbery. No Man's Sky is no different except they have;

 

A: Come out with an actual game, however disappointing it might be instead of an alpha with a fully functional cash shop approaching a 7th anniversary.

B: Haven't been charging $5-$15 dollars more for gift cards then there're actually worth for no reason.

C: Don't offer pay to win ships that can cost hundreds, or even thousands of dollars.

D: Haven't blocked of content promised to customers at the beginning just because they didn't pledge soon enough.

E. Non Man's Sky in not crowdfunded game, making all these practices all the worse from Star Citizen. 

 

I'm not defending no man's sky, but anyone who supports Star Citizen has no right to complain.

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When it comes to Star Citizen there is so much more to analyse then I can condense into a post from my phone right now, especially as Apex Spartan already summed up most of the important details pretty well.

 

I might extend this post or make a separate one later but for now, all I will say to anyone interested in Star Citizen is WAIT!  Wait for the full game to come out or at least into an open BETA or something.

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3 hours ago, Shagger said:

Star Citizen is a bullshit robbery. No Man's Sky is no different except they have;

 

A: Come out with an actual game, however disappointing it might be instead of an alpha with a fully functional cash shop approaching a 7th anniversary.

B: Haven't been charging $5-$15 dollars more for gift cards then there're actually worth for no reason.

C: Don't offer pay to win ships that can cost hundreds, or even thousands of dollars.

D: Haven't blocked of content promised to customers at the beginning just because they didn't pledge soon enough.

E. Non Man's Sky in not crowdfunded game, making all these practices all the worse from Star Citizen. 

 

I'm not defending no man's sky, but anyone who supports Star Citizen has no right to complain.

Love how everything goes right to pay to win ships. Pay to win means cash item base players not spending cash can't get and can't be compared to any other in game item giving player A an unfair advantage over player B. Everything being sold for cash in SC can be picked up for normal in game cash. Pay for head start maybe pay to win no. Next  games like Skyrim took 3.5 years to make at 85 mil and it was a buggy mess that took a modding community to get right. And they were not building new technology to push the limits of one system they were just trying to get the most money by dumping on all 3. Now a new stab at money with the remastered money grab they are working on now. Many of us play the game every day and even in Alpha at $45.00 its $15.00 less then any other full retail game at this point and is enjoyable. 

 

Lastly no other company as been this open with the players of what  they are doing and why they are  doing  delays. And what issues they run into that pushes the game back. No mans sky never did anything to show at any point it was worth a $60.00 price never let players touch it before release. And only ever showed the one or two video clips over and over. Glade I had my brain and didn't throw money at the hype.  

Edited by Rizzwind
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Doing another post because I did go a little off topic. And that was.  

 

COULD STAR CITIZEN MEET THE SAME FATE AS NO MAN'S SKY?

And as much as I like the game the answer is yes. No game is going to be all things to everybody. No game ever it's a fact of gaming. 

 

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1 hour ago, Rizzwind said:

Love how everything goes right to pay to win ships. Pay to win means cash item base players not spending cash can't get and can't be compared to any other in game item giving player A an unfair advantage over player B. Everything being sold for cash in SC can be picked up for normal in game cash. Pay for head start maybe pay to win no. Next  games like Skyrim took 3.5 years to make at 85 mil and it was a buggy mess that took a modding community to get right. And they were not building new technology to push the limits of one system they were just trying to get the most money by dumping on all 3. Now a new stab at money with the remastered money grab they are working on now. Many of us play the game every day and even in Alpha at $45.00 its $15.00 less then any other full retail game at this point and is enjoyable. 

 

Lastly no other company as been this open with the players of what  they are doing and why they are  doing  delays. And what issues they run into that pushes the game back. No mans sky never did anything to show at any point it was worth a $60.00 price never let players touch it before release. And only ever showed the one or two video clips over and over. Glade I had my brain and didn't throw money at the hype.  

Hi and welcome to the AJSA.

 

I appreciate you're opinion, but some political maneuvering in you're wording won't change the truth. Paying for one of the more expensive ships to play the base game (and I say the Base game because now the single player campaign is a separate purchase, that's bullshit in itself) gives what you call "a head start", but I call it a "tactical advantage" as these, more expensive ships are pre-equipped with upgrades that one would have to earn otherwise, all in the same constitant PVP environment. That is like is if Destiny at launch offered an exotic weapon to a starting player for PVP matches in exchange for money. In other words, pay to win.

 

The $85 million Skyrim was pretty stable for most people, but even if weren't the fact SC has made over $100 million in croudfunding and is apparently still in alpha doesn't help your case much.

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33 minutes ago, Shagger said:

Hi and welcome to the AJSA.

 

I appreciate you're opinion, but some political maneuvering in you're wording won't change the truth. Paying for one of the more expensive ships to play the base game (and I say the Base game because now the single player campaign is a separate purchase, that's bullshit in itself) gives what you call "a head start", but I call it a "tactical advantage" as these, more expensive ships are pre-equipped with upgrades that one would have to earn otherwise, all in the same constitant PVP environment. That is like is if Destiny at launch offered an exotic weapon to a starting player for PVP matches in exchange for money. In other words, pay to win.

 

The $85 million Skyrim was pretty stable for most people, but even if weren't the fact SC has made over $100 million in croudfunding and is apparently still in alpha doesn't help your case much.

I can see where you are coming from. I still think it's to early to really say one way or another. We know nothing about the so called safe areas yet or how big they will be. I know the target goal for in game money for a fully loaded Constellation is 50 hours game time. I'm all for waiting to see what they do with the in game economy before I call Pay to win. As for the split in the game packages it's just away for players to save money by letting people pick mmo or single player story game. The total price for both modes is only $60.00 and that's only full retail price of almost ever other AAA title on the market. I think everyone can agree on it boils down to how they handle the launch of the MMO side of the game at this point. I'd never say a game wont fail as per the topic and I would have to say if they have not moved into the beta stage by the time patch 4.0 hits then they should start taking some much needed heat on the time table. 

 

And thanks for the welcome nice to be in a place that mostly talks like adults to each other with well placed views then the name call bs some of the other groups out there have. Hopefully I'll pick up an Xbox one title you have and we can get some game time in getting to know each other. I look forward to working with everyone in the AJSA and getting to know them.  

Edited by Rizzwind
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I'm back at my PC now with my follow up post and I'll start by making it perfectly clear that my recommendation when it comes to No Man's Sky and Star Citizen is resounding NEITHER.  Here is a list of alternatives to consider (feel free to post your own if you know of any that I have missed):

 

Rodina (Steam, Early Access)

Elite Dangerous (Steam, Also Available on XBox One)

Pulsar Lost Colony (Steam, Early Access)

 

I played No Man's Sky and I'd like think I gave it a fair chance (probably more than most) and there is even some aspects which I enjoyed but it is one of those experiences that wears it's welcome very quickly.  This was also not helped by that I bought it on PC and experienced numerous issues with bugs, crashes, long load times and some truly horrendous slow ups.

 

The issues, false advertising and so on have been well publicized and discussed already so so I'm going to step away from No Man's Sky and discuss Star Citizen, which despite the fact I haven't played it infuriates me even more than No Man's Sky does!  Allot of the reasons where discussed earlier but I'll just break it down into my own personal thoughts hopefully without breaking to much into to much a rant.

 

This really upsets me because this game has so much potential which it might even live up to in the end.  I was a huge fan of Chris Roberts earlier work with Wing Commander back in the day.  But it is in my opinion that this is being fueled by pure greed especially when you consider that this game has earned nearly $130 million of crowdfunding by this point.

 

But I digress, here are the main issues I have.

 

#1 -  Marketing

 

 

There is no doubt that Roberts Space Industries is marketing to specific kind of customer......

 

PCMR-Banner.png

I got this image form their own website, no joke LINK

 

It's so PCMR ego stroking it makes sick!  This approach has calmed down somewhat and thank fuck for that but I think it might be because their claim of making a game that isn't bound by the "limitations" of the console is pretty much debunked by this point as it seems to me that the PS4 and XBox one can run this, the PS4 Pro and XBox Scorpio definitely could.  Compare it to Witcher 3 which runs at roughly medium equivalent on both consoles, as you can see their very similar.

 

OMNm7QX.png

(Note:  I posted as an image to stop tabulation getting messed up on mobile)

 

This brings me onto the what I think is the REAL reason this game won't be on consoles, also why the console players aren't exactly going to miss it.....

 

#2 -  The Storefront

 

This is by far my biggest gripe with this whole damn project.  It puts cash grab free-to-play games to shame with this level of greed, I mean look at this shit!  LINK.  The basic game pack is $54 OR for the Squadron 42 campaign sold separately (more on this later) and if you want them both bundled together it's $72.  More powerful ships start from $90 all the way to $900, fleet packs start from $1320 all the way up to $18,000!

 

It doesn't end there!  You want to change your in game name, $6.  You want to give a friend a $100 SC coupon, $120!  What's the point!  You might as well just give him the $100 through PayPal and flush another $20 down the toilet.  The Areoview hanger upgrade costs the same as the entire Pulsar Lost Colony game I mentioned earlier.  Sony/Microsoft would be investigated if they put this kind of shit on their stores.

 

Then there's Squadron 42 which was part of the main package until February 14 when they announced that the package would be split if you didn't pledge by that date giving only 2 weeks notice.  That is fucking shady, I find the Idea of splitting of a campaign that was meant to be included for everyone as a separate pack later completely unacceptable, but I better stop here because I admittedly get to wound up about this.

 

#3 - The Ongoing "Alpha"

 

Now I'm not ignorant, I know a game this complex and ambitious requires allot of time to develop.  The Kickstarter began in Nov 2012 and they were in pre-production before that so I'd say this has been in the works for about 5 years.  Now like I said before it's a big project and I would say that 5-6 years isn't unreasonable for this games development.

 

What bothers me is that it's been in a playable Alpha for almost that entire length of time!  In that time that people have been playing and continuing to pledge there has been long period of seemingly little to no progress, it kinda seems like there just continuing to delay the game to steamroll that BS Alpha storefront.  The latest stuff they showcased at Citizen Con is probably the biggest step forward they have shown in about 3 years.

 

This game should at LEAST be in a closed BETA by this point.  Alpha are supposed to be for testing the early development of mechanics and balancing, not stringing you customers along with the promise they will eventually get the cheese.

 

Despite all this I really hope this turns to be good in the end and unlike No Mans Sky, Star Citizen actually does deliver on all it's lofty promises.  But I would still never consider buying as long as that storefront is there.  No digital commercial product is worth that.

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I pretty much agree with everything you said Crazy, but that thing with PCMR on their site, it's not official or anything. At least I don't think it is.

 

If you look closely, it's like a clan/club or community thing you can probably create in-game or on the website. As you can see, they only got 12 members and it says "casual", meaning it's a clan meant for casual enjoyment.

 

I mean I doubt Chris would be so retarded to do something like that. Look at the manifesto of the clan,

"PC gaming is superior to console gaming, but the gamers themselves are neither superior or inferior to one another: they’re just people with varying degrees of understanding.

Fight the misinformation, fight the console monopoly, and fight the oppressors. Long live freedom, long live affordable and beautiful gaming, and long live the Glorious PC Gaming Master Race! "

You can find the link to the "organizations" aka communities here:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/orgs

 

 

It's just a bunch of retards getting wet over the game and their PCs. I mean there is such groups on Steam, but it doesn't mean Gaben promotes PCMR stuff by himself. I doubt Chris has full control or really cares as long as it doesn't contain pornographic and other names/imagery.

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Yeah I was partly taking the piss but I was telling the truth when I said I saw allot of that kind of negative attitude in the early promotional material.

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Just now, Crazycrab said:

Yeah I was partly taking the piss but I was telling the truth when I said I saw allot of that kind of attitude in the early promotional material.

Yea that's just nerds being retarded and partially it's Chris's fault because he promoted the game as saviour of PC gaming and the kids with rich parents took that as some kind of #PCMR message, which I doubt was Chris's original plan.

 

I mean it's kind of a stereotype thing, just like most people think that all or most Steam users are PCMR kids and that Valve supports them because Steam belongs to Valve and all Valve are PC exclusives (at least I think), but truth is, I don't think even 50% of PC users actually have monster PCs and most just go on Steam for sales and cheap games.

Almost every PC  gamer has a Steam account, whether they are just a normal PC gamer who play ocassionally or hardcore.

 

Anyway back to Star Citizen...I don't know.

It if comes out true and according to plan, it's like the 8th Wonder of the World, but there is sooooo many barricades to pass. I don't think Chris is being a liar like Murray and completely lying to the audience with fake videos, but I get the feeling he has good intentions, but:

1. Is either getting too greedy after the success of the Kickstarter

2.  Or they are trying too hard to add content to the game without actually COMPLETELY finishing one module and then release them over time, but instead they work on a 1000 things at once so they are basically lost

 

I don't see Star Citizen as a game that will be finished and will be mediocre and bad. I see Star Citizen either as a fully finished that game that will reach more than 90% of it's promises or it will just fall apart completely and the project will be cancelled or never finished. At this point, all they gotta do is come up with a plan to finish it. I think they have more than enough money to do it. If they can't, obviously they aren't experienced enough or the project is just impossible, because this is probably one of the most amitious titles to ever be in making.

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Given how long Star Citizen has been in development and how much money has been donated to it, I am surprised at how little progress has been made. Plus with all the rumors of mismanaged money from inside the team I am skeptical about it ever coming out.

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What they have right now are a bunch of modules which are basically tech demos.  The actual Star Citizen MMORPG is pretty much a gamble at this point until they successfully combine everything.  Then they still need to fill the world with content.

Squadron 42 will set the tone for how people will receive Star Citizen.  If it's totally GOTY then people probably won't care as much if Star Citizen fails since (as an MMORPG) it just means waiting longer for more/better content.

Though if it totally flops, at least they have the game engine they could sell so more games can have planetary/star system scaled proc gen combined with handmade areas (might even be possible to completely edit an entire planet) with AI and creatures so it's a win for me since I never backed Star Citizen. :P

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This game will either be the most amazing game in our life or the most expensive failure in game development history... Either way it will go BIG. Something NMS never was... (may be hyped big)

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