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Shagger

On Joe's latest video...

17 posts in this topic

I'm sorry if this is considered part of the  DISCUSSING FREQUENCY OF JOE REVIEWS (ONLY THREAD), but I wanted to talk a bit about this video;

 

 

Now, I'm in two minds about this. I totally with AJ and OJ on the timekeeping being difficult and I like the organised plan they have 2017 in terms of reviews. I do believe that some of AJS's viewers are getting bratty and entitled and thus just not appreciating the the time and effort it takes to put these reviews together. However, I can understand people's frustration over the lack of gaming reviews over the last year on major titles mostly because I don't really watch the other content on the channel. The EF reviews, movie reviews, let's plays and v-logs just feel like easy done, unnecessary padding to me. I don't even watch AJ on twitch because I don't watch gamers play on twitch, it's just not my thing. Even the Angry Reviews just haven't been the same. Ever since the DOOM review where Joe channeled his frustrations about the "demands" of his fans into a kind of backhanded joke the Angry Reviews have felt forced. No doubting the effort and honesty in them, but's it's just not felt as passionate as it used to.

 

Joe isn't stupid, and if your reading this man, I'm not saying anything you don't already know, I'm just putting it into my own words. The Angry Joe Show is, and probably always will be, one of my favorite youtube channels largely because of the effort you put into it. I'm just a little concerned that the energy that drove it is turning into an obligation for you. Most jobs are like that, but that doesn't mean you have to put up with it because you feel obligated. For example, I'm a marine pipe fitter. It's my trade, and I like doing it. However, I've been working for most of this past year basically a laborer because my skilled trade was in lesser demand at my employer. I was still earning the same money and my job was, if anything, more secure, but I hated it. Some said I should be happy earning my tradesman's salary for a laborers work, but I felt like I was worth less than what I am. Then, just a month or so ago, I was put back into a pipe fitter squad and it's been an elation. I'm leaping out of bed in the morning now and feel a lot happier even though I'm working at the same place on the same contract and project. I know that being a youtuber and doing what I do are very different ways to earn a living, but the point that is valid to both is feeling happy with yourself and what you're doing is vital, otherwise one has question wether the sacrifice is worth it, and if one isn't happy, the answer is usually no.

 

Now if AJ was to quit youtube it wouldn't hurt me that much, but I'd hardly be happy either. I'm just worried that the negativity is bringing Joe down and he's just not loving it as much as he used to. I know Joe loves what he does, but I feel he needs more application from us as fans. We're the silent majority for the most part and that's a bad thing.

 

So Joe, just from me to you. I'm not gonna lie, I don't love all the content you put up, but love or hate it, I appreciate the effort and look forward to the plans folding out in 2017.

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Agreed, I believe there is a sustainable way for Joe to make this work, but if he can't do it, he shouldn't hurt himself in the process. I propose that he and the council appoint qualified members to act as his cushion to review the games he can't or doesn't wish to review, thus getting out more reviews in either written or video format. We may not have Joe's style or personality, but we are many and possess a broad spectrum of experiences and play styles. To this end, we can finally support Joe in a way that makes and genuine difference and improves/empowers this community at the same time. One man CANNOT review everything.

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I really hope this reaches him as well.

I think that can be resolved rather simply. I do not know if Joe apply any production method for his videos. I think there is none, he just sorts it out. I concern that he just grab too much work and thinks 'Well, I can do this" and try his best. But the amount of work can be overwhelming and the temptation to just quit and start again is just great (as he is his own boss). Because this time "he will get it right". And that video really concerned me because that schedule is insane. It is overwhelming for a small team as his to deliver more than one video weekly, and put a the really-time-consuming-to-make angry reviews on the soup!

My point is he is just crumbled with responsibility and work. And the solution it is not 'to take some time and think things over'. It is to study and develop production methods to deliver videos consistently with quality. The focus is not on the amount of delivery but on how to make videos and deliver it. And there are many methods of production out there. I commented on youtube that he should just adopt a Scrum like method but I will post here as well so can be aware of it.

My proposition it is to make a video per sprint. On the beginning of a video decide on what video will deliver (example movie review) and all your work effort it is to deliver that video with Joe's desirable quality. At the release it is the end of that sprint then choose another video (board game review) and start another sprint. Put a maximum time of two weeks and in that way you deliver consistently on the channel with the desirable quality. And that way it is easy to be with varied content. And AJ can announce on twitter, at the end of the video, or another media in what sprint he is currently working and we will know that video will come in the next 2 weeks.

That way there is no side time consuming projects and videos are delivered. He gets motivated on the feedback of the release and generates a positive feedback on his channel. It may end filler content as well. 

And that way allows him to stream as much as he likes. So long that he sticks with 2 weeks at maximum for each sprint.

I comment on this because I dare that Joe ever changed on how he makes videos. I know he does take this on a professional level but lacks refinement. I guess this scenario may be common for him. He started to do an angry review, he was halfway through the game making annotations of his critique and he watches a movie he was really waiting for, because he just watched he wanted to make an movie review quickly because the impressions are lasting on him, he takes the time to make it. Then he remembers that he haven't done a certain video for a while he knows that angry review will take some time so he just delays it for some days so he can deliver that certain content on the next days.   But another big game just released and another movie is just at the corner. Joe values too much, on my opinion, timing. So he gets frustrated when he can't review a movie or a game within days of its release date. So it create a snowball effect as he said. And the 'get it right' of his it is not to change any of that, it is to just make it quicker or get it done this time (as vague as it sounds).

So my point is that he is continuing with this fatal flaw. History will just repeat itself. 

He gets in touch with big channels that delivers consistently (like nostalgia critique on channel awesome) and they do apply some production method. So he could just learn from it and refine it to his liking. 

 

So, again, the point I want to address it is for him to apply a production method and stick with it. Scrum is my suggestion, it work wonders and I hope he gets a leap of faith on it. He said it will deliver videos on January so it is plenty of time to know about production methods.

 

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1 hour ago, BlackOpsElf said:

Agreed, I believe there is a sustainable way for Joe to make this work, but if he can't do it, he shouldn't hurt himself in the process. I propose that he and the council appoint qualified members to act as his cushion to review the games he can't or doesn't wish to review, thus getting out more reviews in either written or video format. We may not have Joe's style or personality, but we are many and possess a broad spectrum of experiences and play styles. To this end, we can finally support Joe in a way that makes and genuine difference and improves/empowers this community at the same time. One man CANNOT review everything.

That's a very smart move. I think that would be a good plan.

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5 hours ago, Shagger said:

Angry Reviews have felt forced. No doubting the effort and honesty in them, but's it's just not felt as passionate as it used to.

At 1:29 AJ mentions has been struggling with depression among other issues. While I think given the context of the video, he meant that it hindered him from uploading an ''Angry Review'' after the TitanFall 2 one but, maybe as with at least -some- people I know his depression is recurring which could have resulted ( as well as other factors ) in some of his Angry Reviews being... less passionate than what we are used to as his fans?

In any case, about the video, Joe's plan seems solid, I sincerely hope the deadlines won't pressure him and force him to rush his content and most of all I hope that either his fans become more more understanding or at least him not getting worked up over it. 

 

 

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I don't know, I don't wanna say how he should run his channel because I've never done it, but maybe he is trying to cover too much content: lets plays, big reviews, Rapidfire reviews or whatever the name, movie reviews etc

 

Since he is most popular for his reviews, maybe focusing on them should be a priority. However I feel like he should just do what he feels like the most, but just got really tired of things and like he said, he needs a break and a restart.

 

I don't feel sorry for him because it's something he started as a hobby - but guess what, it turned into a full time job. Every job has it's stressful moments and points in career when you just wanna quit it or you just go insane. He should take a break this Christmas holidays, put his mind at ease and figure out from time to time how to move his channel forward. You can't satisfy everyone and Youtube is always gonna have needy little kids crying that the review/video sucks because it's not the game they wanted  reviewed and so on.

Joe is a smart and good fellow and I'm sure this is just another barrier in his career he will break down or jump over and eventually win.

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7 hours ago, Ranisel said:

At 1:29 AJ mentions has been struggling with depression among other issues. While I think given the context of the video, he meant that it hindered him from uploading an ''Angry Review'' after the TitanFall 2 one but, maybe as with at least -some- people I know his depression is recurring which could have resulted ( as well as other factors ) in some of his Angry Reviews being... less passionate than what we are used to as his fans?

In any case, about the video, Joe's plan seems solid, I sincerely hope the deadlines won't pressure him and force him to rush his content and most of all I hope that either his fans become more more understanding or at least him not getting worked up over it. 

 

 

Depression is a harsh mistress. Believe me, I suffer from it. I hope Joe is okay. :(

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Such ups and downs are part of life Joe, I'm sure you will get through this. Take your time to regroup and reorganize. The Army will stand by you, you can be sure of that.

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I think for me, the biggest red flag and why I jumped on the "listen up Joe, you can do better" wagon was his recent handling of FFXV and The Last Guardian.  Two huge games people have been anticipating for a long time, that the gaming community is hyped for, that even Joe stated he was looking forward to, and all he put out there on his channel was a Twitch stream and a couple minutes of commentary.  To me this just felt lazy and slopped together.  And to me it would have been better for him to either not have put anything out, or to take more time to give a better opinion/review.  It didn't have to be a full Angry Review, but it was insulting he didn't at least give a rating and highlight the good and bad points of the games.  We know Joe's work and we know what he is capable of.  I just didn't want to see him use the "twitch and run" format for any future reviews/impressions on his channel so I wanted to call him out on it right away.

I am glad he put out this video to apologize and explain more what was going on with him.  He did state he needed to be more transparent with his fans and more structured with his content and his plans for what he was going to publish ahead of time, and I agree.  But Joe has always been a reviewer, and his fans come to him for reviews.  He is a great voice for us gamers to call out games like Destiny and Elder Scrolls: Online and Star Wars: Battlefront and The Division for their BS.  And at the same time he gives praise and publicity to games that deserve to be looked at.  He gives thorough and honest reviews and suggestions for how to make a game better the next time.  And if he doesn't continue to do that to his best ability, we lose that voice in the gaming community.

I am not one of those "haters" who just trolls the YouTube comments to insult or belittle him.  But I am also not one of those "white knights" who always says "ignore the haters joe <3 you're perfect just as you are!"  I like most of his work.  I like the movie reviews (don't understand why people hate on them), I liked his RapidFire reviews, I enjoy watching him on Twitch when I can, and I love his community.  I don't agree with him on everything, but I also don't get butthurt when he does something I don't agree with, as long as he is doing his best and keeps his passion.

Joe, like any person, is trying to live his life and do his thing while also trying to focus on his job.  He will have ups and downs and need to deal with life outside of work.  I know he won't always be able to deliver on his promises because there is only so much time and resources he has to get things done.  I know he has a lot of passions and ambition to do more with his channel.  So I personally don't mind if he changes things up, tries something new, and finds new and more efficient ways to do content.  I get that an Angry Review takes a lot of time and effort and editing to get just right, and it is stressful to try and push one of those out while games are still fresh and people are waiting for his opinions.  I also get the frustrations of having something you love and enjoy doing feel like a chore due to restraints and commitments.  

Personally, I would like to see his game reviews and Angry Reviews as two separate entities.  I would like it if the game reviews came out similar to movie reviews, where he or him and his friends can sit down in front of the camera and talk about first impressions without spoilers, maybe show some game play on the green screen behind them, list the good and bad aspects of the game, and then give it a score so fans know if it is a play or a pass within the first few days of release.  This way he can cover games he isn't planning to do an Angry Review on instead of leaving them in the dust because he didn't have time to rush a full Angry review.

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4 hours ago, darthgumby said:

I think for me, the biggest red flag and why I jumped on the "listen up Joe, you can do better" wagon was his recent handling of FFXV and The Last Guardian.  Two huge games people have been anticipating for a long time, that the gaming community is hyped for, that even Joe stated he was looking forward to, and all he put out there on his channel was a Twitch stream and a couple minutes of commentary.  To me this just felt lazy and slopped together.  And to me it would have been better for him to either not have put anything out, or to take more time to give a better opinion/review.  It didn't have to be a full Angry Review, but it was insulting he didn't at least give a rating and highlight the good and bad points of the games.  We know Joe's work and we know what he is capable of.  I just didn't want to see him use the "twitch and run" format for any future reviews/impressions on his channel so I wanted to call him out on it right away.

Again, like he said in the video. He has a life, holidays are approaching he wants to be with his family, he also mentioned depression and illness.

 

4 hours ago, darthgumby said:

Joe, like any person, is trying to live his life and do his thing while also trying to focus on his job.  He will have ups and downs and need to deal with life outside of work.  I know he won't always be able to deliver on his promises because there is only so much time and resources he has to get things done.  I know he has a lot of passions and ambition to do more with his channel.  So I personally don't mind if he changes things up, tries something new, and finds new and more efficient ways to do content.  I get that an Angry Review takes a lot of time and effort and editing to get just right, and it is stressful to try and push one of those out while games are still fresh and people are waiting for his opinions.  I also get the frustrations of having something you love and enjoy doing feel like a chore due to restraints and commitments.  

How can you understand all of that, yet be on the ship telling Joe he can do ''better'', I mean really you seem understanding yet paradoxically not understanding? 

Obviously, more than anyone of his fans he knows exactly, how much he can do why do you have this delusion that some fan of his understands his situation better than him?

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On 2016-12-16 at 8:18 AM, BlackOpsElf said:

Agreed, I believe there is a sustainable way for Joe to make this work, but if he can't do it, he shouldn't hurt himself in the process. I propose that he and the council appoint qualified members to act as his cushion to review the games he can't or doesn't wish to review, thus getting out more reviews in either written or video format. We may not have Joe's style or personality, but we are many and possess a broad spectrum of experiences and play styles. To this end, we can finally support Joe in a way that makes and genuine difference and improves/empowers this community at the same time. One man CANNOT review everything.

No that will only make the situation worse his views will go down and people will get mad that joe isn't in any of his angry reviews anymore look what happened to some you tubers that tried to do this like smosh, rocket jump, top15, danger dolan it basically screwed them over. Its better to have Joe be in all of his videos then bunch of unknown people doing his videos for him it wouldn't be right. 

 

On 2016-12-16 at 0:56 PM, Ranisel said:

At 1:29 AJ mentions has been struggling with depression among other issues. While I think given the context of the video, he meant that it hindered him from uploading an ''Angry Review'' after the TitanFall 2 one but, maybe as with at least -some- people I know his depression is recurring which could have resulted ( as well as other factors ) in some of his Angry Reviews being... less passionate than what we are used to as his fans?

In any case, about the video, Joe's plan seems solid, I sincerely hope the deadlines won't pressure him and force him to rush his content and most of all I hope that either his fans become more more understanding or at least him not getting worked up over it. 

 

 

He's still doing FFXV right?

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I believe this does qualify as "Frequency of Angry Reviews" given the content of the thread. But no harm, no foul.

 

As for my two cents, and this is purely off observation.

 

Apex and Joe pretty much nailed it. In the beginning it was a hobby that Joe loved and put full effort into his reviews. Time and his channel progressed and it became his job and just like any job it takes a toll physically and/or mentally. The difference here is that Joe confused his "job" with a personal life and took on more work (Twitch, Let's Plays) which were significantly easier to produce. People learn to go with the simpler route to finish their work, so I believe Joe realized this and began to steer towards that easier work (not saying it's the truth, it's my perception of what's happening).

 

Hopefully Joe's idea of getting an office to do his reviews will change things around. I get to work from home time to time and the urge to do your own thing since you're home is always there. And since Joe has no one to report to, no progress to show off, no reason to get in trouble for lack of work over...it's easy for him to brush off work and just stream. Only time will tell how his channel will progress, all we can do is wait and hope the positive feedback on his Channel helps motivate him to do more Reviews.

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On 12/27/2016 at 7:00 PM, Rain said:

I believe this does qualify as "Frequency of Angry Reviews" given the content of the thread. But no harm, no foul.

 

As for my two cents, and this is purely off observation.

 

Apex and Joe pretty much nailed it. In the beginning it was a hobby that Joe loved and put full effort into his reviews. Time and his channel progressed and it became his job and just like any job it takes a toll physically and/or mentally. The difference here is that Joe confused his "job" with a personal life and took on more work (Twitch, Let's Plays) which were significantly easier to produce. People learn to go with the simpler route to finish their work, so I believe Joe realized this and began to steer towards that easier work (not saying it's the truth, it's my perception of what's happening).

 

Hopefully Joe's idea of getting an office to do his reviews will change things around. I get to work from home time to time and the urge to do your own thing since you're home is always there. And since Joe has no one to report to, no progress to show off, no reason to get in trouble for lack of work over...it's easy for him to brush off work and just stream. Only time will tell how his channel will progress, all we can do is wait and hope the positive feedback on his Channel helps motivate him to do more Reviews.

I don't mind Joe doing things like Let's Plays, Movie Reviews, etc. If it makes things easier for him, I'm okay with it.

Personally I hope things get better for him cause depression sucks. I have it and it's not a pretty thing. Why do you think I had like two attempts and the second made me end up in a hospital for a couple of hours. It was horrible.

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On 12/17/2016 at 1:08 PM, Ranisel said:

How can you understand all of that, yet be on the ship telling Joe he can do ''better'', I mean really you seem understanding yet paradoxically not understanding? 

Obviously, more than anyone of his fans he knows exactly, how much he can do why do you have this delusion that some fan of his understands his situation better than him?

Joe seems to be a bit off recently... I highly disliked his top 10 "Review of FFXV" Seriously? The Music Sucks? Come on now? The Driving Sections were not that bad either.

 

Anyways. I like Joe but he just seems to be burnt out, and or doesn't feel like making videos. I personally think he should take as much time off as needed, OF COURSE, this could end up hurting him as people might stop watching him. Which is why he probably pads out his channel with Movie reviews and first impression trailers because they are much easier to do.


Oh and honestly I think AJ should stop listening to spoony about how bad FF is... Spoony can be quite ignorant at times. And I do feel that OTHER JOE is an integral part of his Angry Reviews. Other Joe is awesome! But then again IDK, it does take up more time with Other Joe.

Maybe Other Joe can do LP's by himself and or with Joe on the channel? IDK. Or maybe they can switch it out, have some reviews with Other Joe and have some other reviews without him?

Have those quick reviews with just AJ's original review format without Joe and when they have time Other Joe will be in those.

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12 hours ago, Aaron Lannister said:

Joe seems to be a bit off recently... I highly disliked his top 10 "Review of FFXV" Seriously? The Music Sucks? Come on now? The Driving Sections were not that bad either.

 

Anyways. I like Joe but he just seems to be burnt out, and or doesn't feel like making videos. I personally think he should take as much time off as needed, OF COURSE, this could end up hurting him as people might stop watching him. Which is why he probably pads out his channel with Movie reviews and first impression trailers because they are much easier to do.


Oh and honestly I think AJ should stop listening to spoony about how bad FF is... Spoony can be quite ignorant at times. And I do feel that OTHER JOE is an integral part of his Angry Reviews. Other Joe is awesome! But then again IDK, it does take up more time with Other Joe.

Maybe Other Joe can do LP's by himself and or with Joe on the channel? IDK. Or maybe they can switch it out, have some reviews with Other Joe and have some other reviews without him?

Have those quick reviews with just AJ's original review format without Joe and when they have time Other Joe will be in those.

Off-topic: About FFXV, I enjoyed the game in spite of the issues. The car was an integral part of gaming but there's always the fast travel option. Makes it easier. Oh and using Ramuh to take down a boss when ice magic is useful is like... uh.

I feel these suggestions are just as good. Have a balance between Joe solo reviews and Joe & Other Joe review.

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28 minutes ago, DestinyDecade said:

Off-topic: About FFXV, I enjoyed the game in spite of the issues. The car was an integral part of gaming but there's always the fast travel option. Makes it easier. Oh and using Ramuh to take down a boss when ice magic is useful is like... uh.

I feel these suggestions are just as good. Have a balance between Joe solo reviews and Joe & Other Joe review.

yeah, sorry about being offtopic too. I felt like he was just being waaay too nitpicky about FFXV escpecially when the majority of music was good.
I personally think he was just rushing the review or somewhat. He doesn't seem to be as on point as usual, but then again Joe was never a fan of MGS or FF games in general he didn't grow up with those kinds of games like the majority of RPG Playstation and or NES gamers.

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3 hours ago, Aaron Lannister said:

yeah, sorry about being offtopic too. I felt like he was just being waaay too nitpicky about FFXV escpecially when the majority of music was good.
I personally think he was just rushing the review or somewhat. He doesn't seem to be as on point as usual, but then again Joe was never a fan of MGS or FF games in general he didn't grow up with those kinds of games like the majority of RPG Playstation and or NES gamers.

 

I find it understandable truthfully.

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