• Welcome to the Angry Joe Show Army!

    Join our community of gamers passionate about our community and our hobby! Whether it's playing, discussing, or watching games, regardless of platform, genre, or location, we have a place for you, always!

  • PS4 Forum

    The AJSA Playstation 4 Division: Game Nights and More!

    The AJSA is on Playstation 4! Join us for weekly Game Nights with a selection of the best games the PS4 has to offer!

  • XBO Forum

    The AJSA Xbox One Division: We Got You Covered!

    The AJSA Xbox One Division is ready to connect with you on XBox Live with a ton of events for the best Xbox games!

  • News Archive

    The Best News from the Best Sites, Every Week.

    The AJSA News Collection Team is hard at work condensing a week's worth of news into one giant-sze digest for you to chew on and discuss! Links to source articles are always provided!

  • More Info

    The AJSA Expeditionary Force: Deploying to Play the Best PC Games!

    The elite vanguard of the AJSA, the Expeditionary Force (EF) chooses a new PC game every week! Join us for weekly events and help decide if the game has a future in the AJSA.

  • The Team

    Streaming Now: The AJSA Stream Team

    Joe can't stream every game, but our talented AJSA Stream Team covers a wide variety of games and personalities! Check them out, and show them some AJSA Love!

  • The Tube

    The AJSA Community YouTube Channel

    Featuring news, gameplay clips, and more from the community! The Community is a chance to showcase the best moments in AJSA Gaming!

Shagger

The game industry's obsession with lootboxs has officially gone to far..

41 posts in this topic

It's bad enough that every god damb game feels the need to join in the unwelcome effort to infect people with the idea that gambling for something you've already payed for is OK, but now G2A has taken it to a whoal new despicable level by putting games, actual games, in lootboxes!

 

G2A Loot Page

 

Credit to Musical Anti-Hero who's vid brought this to my attention.

 

 

G2A already have a less than stellar reputation on account of them being known to sell illegally obtained steam keys and charging for refunds through the "G2A Shield" service that you don't even need to obtain refunds. However, if you use paypal or a credit card, you NEED to be subscribed to that service just to buy these boxes. That's shitty enough already, but it gets worse. The games inside the boxes are mostly garbage that you can find cheeper elsewhere with a few popular titles like Fallout 4, PUBG, Fallout: New Vagas and NieR: Automata in the mix. I would be not slighly shocked if the vast majority of the games you "win" cost less than the box itself.  

 

(EDIT) Also, you don't simply "buy" these boxes. You instead buy a kind of in store credit (Microtransactions in games usually operate in a similar way) that is not refundible nor redeemable elsewhare because of cource it isn't. And obviously its priced in such a way that the packs of credit are  "more than enough for one, but not quite enough for two" kind of way to encourage people to buy more than they need per box.

 

Why do people do this? I think this attitude that paying for something then gambling in hope of getting said something is very dangerous. I'm actully tempted to call this an effort to soften younger people up to gambling in genral, but in an environment without the strict rules and monitoring that real gambling has. That's why I hate this practice! This, though, is a whoal new level of cock hole. However, I don't fully blame G2A for this because this is just a buisness opportunity to sell keys that aren't selling to people, and I gotta admit it's as clever as it is scummy. The landscape that would allow such an idea to work was created by the people who defend this practice in games like Overwatch, PUBG, Battlefield and so on, and it's only gonna get more common and worse if they don't stop. Start demanding to get the shit you want when you pay for it instead of being offered "the fun and privilege" of gambling in hope for it.

 

And G2A, go suck a bag of dicks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems odd to be mad at G2A for loot boxes of all things, no one who cares about the industry should be buying from them anyway. I don't watch rant videos but from looking at it it's just opening a box for a random game for money, a lot of storefronts already do things like that, GOG and GMG have had random game sales for years. GMG even calls it a lootbox and has been doing that for I think two years now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless it's a free to play game (and even there it's at least questionable) there is NO excuse for this RNG lootboxing gambling shit and I'm sick of gamers that defend it.

Shagger, Nymphonomicon and Glaice like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Legolas_Katarn said:

Seems odd to be mad at G2A for loot boxes of all things. I don't watch rant videos but from looking at it it's just opening a box for a random game for money, a lot of storefronts already do things like that, GOG and GMG have had random game sales for years. GMG even calls it a lootbox and has been doing that for I think two years now. 

 

Yeah and they almost exclusively full of crap to!

 

Me I like it simple, here is a selection of game(s) and/or DLC, this is the price, buy or don't.

Shagger likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Legolas_Katarn said:

Seems odd to be mad at G2A for loot boxes of all things, no one who cares about the industry should be buying from them anyway. I don't watch rant videos but from looking at it it's just opening a box for a random game for money, a lot of storefronts already do things like that, GOG and GMG have had random game sales for years. GMG even calls it a lootbox and has been doing that for I think two years now. 

 

Just because it's been going on for a while with GOG and GMG doesn't mean it's any more acceptable. Admittedly, I didn't know GMG and GOG did that, but then again these lookboxes aren't plastered all over thier homepages like the better alternitive to the wheel. I will say I'm willing to go a little easier on GMG and GOG because GMG boxes are cheeper and offer an amount of items instead of just one, and part of what GOG is about is discovering old gems that you may not know about, so a cheep, random box makes some sense there. Not to metion in both cases you aren't forced to sign up to a bullshit payment protection scheme that you don't need and the payment is a straightforward, cash amout listed, transaction without this buying of "gold coins" bullshit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I agree G2A is a shady ass company, I'm not gonna shit on them for introducing loot crates. It's not a stellar system, but you don't have to fuck with it. I can totally see why people get upset over loot boxes being in every game, but that's the developers/publisher's choice, that's that. 

It's not the responsibility of any company to worry about some random's gambling issues, that's for the individual to worry about. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/5/2017 at 0:38 PM, Shagger said:

 

Just because it's been going on for a while with GOG and GMG doesn't mean it's any more acceptable. Admittedly, I didn't know GMG and GOG did that, but then again these lookboxes aren't plastered all over thier homepages like the better alternitive to the wheel. I will say I'm willing to go a little easier on GMG and GOG because GMG boxes are cheeper and offer an amount of items instead of just one, and part of what GOG is about is discovering old gems that you may not know about, so a cheep, random box makes some sense there. Not to metion in both cases you aren't forced to sign up to a bullshit payment protection scheme that you don't need and the payment is a straightforward, cash amout listed, transaction without this buying of "gold coins" bullshit. 

How can you say that the loot crates that GOG and GMG are putting out are any better than G2A's? From the OP it seems you're opposed to the idea of loot crates in general, but then you're somewhat okay with GOG and GMG doing it because it's less scummy. If you're gonna shit on G2A for it, you gotta shit on these GMG and GOG as well, otherwise it seems like you're biased and that you're flip-flopping on your opinions just because one company is doing it in a shadier fashion. At the end of the day, they're all selling loot crates. 

Not trying to shit on you, just a bit confused by what you're saying. 

Edited by omgdozer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, omgdozer said:

How can you say that the loot crates that GOG and GMG are putting out are any better than G2A's? From the OP it seems you're opposed to the idea of loot crates in general, but then you're somewhat okay with GOG and GMG doing it because it's less scummy. If you're gonna shit on G2A for it, you gotta shit on these GMG and GOG as well, otherwise it seems like you're biased and that you're flip-flopping on your opinions just because one company is doing it in a shadier fashion. At the end of the day, they're all selling loot crates. 

Not trying to shit on you, just a bit confused by what you're saying. 

 

I worded it the exact way i meant it. I don't have another way to put it. I listened to and addressed new information presented to me on the subject. It's called listening to and acknowledging another opinion and perspective, that's not flip flopping. Like I said, GMG and GOG handle this a fairer way, but again like a I already said, this doesn't make the concept of gambling for something you already payed for any more accepible to me. So, if you want to to debate this do so without sending unfounded accusations if you don't mind.

 

On your other post, you defend the idea of lootcrates without actully defending them. I mean seriously, what actully is your justification for them and for G2A implementing them? Also your statement about someones gambling issue is "not a company's problem" is about as ignorant as it gets. In other monotized gambling, if a company said that it would not only be unethical it would be illegal. Anyone who knows anything about gambling addictions will tell you that it's a serious condition that's caused at least in part by the game in question praying on the exact psychology that these lootboxs do. Technicality it may not be thier problem, but it fucking should be, like it is in other gambling. Just because this is video games that gives these asshole companies a way to sidestep the tight rules, regulations and not to mention odds that come into other forms of monetized gambling and that makes it ok to you? They're scum and they even know it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

G2a is a crap company, and not because of loot boxes. I agree that loot boxes are lame but they are like the least of g2as problems.

 

Also I thin GMG is great but their loot boxes are shit. My sucker brother gets them all the time they are on sale and it gives you a list of popular games you MIGHT get from them. But nobody ever does. Instead you get no name games nobody has ever heard of that look stupid, and you check forums, and nearly everyone else gets the same shit pretty much.

Shagger likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once everyone starts to accept that Trump is the president and we have to deal with it, I garentee they start to move for regulation of this stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, 1gameplyr said:

Once everyone starts to accept that Trump is the president and we have to deal with it, I garentee they start to move for regulation of this stuff.

 

I'm not willing to dabate that for three reasons;

 

  1. I can't see how lootboxs in video games and websites selling video games connects to the fact that it's Trump who president of the United States instead of somebody else. The two things seem so disconnected that I can only assume there's something im missing.
  2. I'm not from America and I don't live there, so I've got nothkng to say about that that's even remotely worthwhile hearing anyway.
  3. Political discussions aren't permitted in the AJSA.

 

So, mostly for the last reason, please don't bring that up again

1gameplyr likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK sorry. I suppose I had a disjointed reasoning behind it, but due to your point 3, I will not try to justify it.

I do really feel that US and EU regulations will be coming in the next few years. I see these loot boxes as gambiling for kids and I can't imagine law makers wouldn't see it in a similar way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/6/2017 at 9:25 PM, 1gameplyr said:

OK sorry. I suppose I had a disjointed reasoning behind it, but due to your point 3, I will not try to justify it.

I do really feel that US and EU regulations will be coming in the next few years. I see these loot boxes as gambiling for kids and I can't imagine law makers wouldn't see it in a similar way.

I, for the life of me can't see why this is gambling. They are paying for a product even though they have no idea what that product actually is until they get it. It's the same as that Blue Apron or whatever that service is where you get a random meal in a box and cook it...except it's a random game to play instead of food to eat.

 

No one with rational thinking will ever call loot crates gambling, it simply isn't except for the fact you're lucky if you get what you want. The consumer is paying for a random game, they are not placing a bet and looking for a decent payout and I'm like 99.9% sure the crates don't come empty. If those loot crates do arrive empty then ok that's fucked up and I would definitely consider that gambling because you are paying money and there's a chance to get absolutely nothing at all which is the epitome of gambling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rain said:

I, for the life of me can't see why this is gambling. They are paying for a product even though they have no idea what that product actually is until they get it. It's the same as that Blue Apron or whatever that service is where you get a random meal in a box and cook it...except it's a random game to play instead of food to eat.

 

No one with rational thinking will ever call loot crates gambling, it simply isn't except for the fact you're lucky if you get what you want. The consumer is paying for a random game, they are not placing a bet and looking for a decent payout and I'm like 99.9% sure the crates don't come empty. If those loot crates do arrive empty then ok that's fucked up and I would definitely consider that gambling because you are paying money and there's a chance to get absolutely nothing at all which is the epitome of gambling.

 

 

S7n0HzP.png

 

"Take risky action in the hopes of getting a desired result"

 

Need I say anymore!  The reason why many people are describing these practices as gambling is because it so obviously fucking is!  Whether they are investing their money or even just investing their time they are doing so with the hopes of getting something they desire with the risk that the time andor money invested does not get what they want............ THAT IS GAMBLING!!!!!

 

The fact that the chance of a reimbursement doesn't come in the form of cash, the fact venue isn't a Bookmaker or a Casino and most all the absolute nonsense argument that "loot crates don't come empty" are all 100% irreverent. All the parameters of addiction, monetary loss, the house advantage and even the flashy "Casino lights" style they use to tempt and pull you in are all exactly the same.

 

What makes this really worrying (as others have pointed out) is that they are pulling young impressionable children into "just one more roll of the dice" addiction since, unlike other gambling venues there is age restrictions on who they can market these to.  Yeah there's ESRB ratings and so on but that is not the same.

 

How the hell you have manged to fail to see what is going on right in front of your face baffles me!  I'm just thankful that most people with "Rational thinking" who have seen this actually are getting concerned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Crazycrab said:

 

How the hell you have manged to fail to see what is going on right in front of your face baffles me!  I'm just thankful that most people with "Rational thinking" actually are getting concerned.

Because by your standards everything would be gambling. Just because it relates slightly to dictionary.com does not make it a form of actual gambling. I gamble when i buy games, will it be worth the money I spend. I gamble when I buy food I've never had, will it taste good, will I get my nutrients, will I get sick. I gamble when I buy beer, will I enjoy it and will it do it's job. Lighten up and who cares, people spend money on what they hope to get and if kids are out there spending money then blame their parents for not being a parent.

 

You can argue all day that it's gambling but what about ALL the other aspects of living that actually affect your life...gambling on medicine, housing, your significant other. All I'm seeing is complaining that people might not get the game they want...they are entitled to try if someone gives them that opportunity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rain said:

Because by your standards everything would be gambling. Just because it relates slightly to dictionary.com does not make it a form of actual gambling. I gamble when i buy games, will it be worth the money I spend. I gamble when I buy food I've never had, will it taste good, will I get my nutrients, will I get sick. I gamble when I buy beer, will I enjoy it and will it do it's job. Lighten up and who cares, people spend money on what they hope to get and if kids are out there spending money then blame their parents for not being a parent.

 

You can argue all day that it's gambling but what about ALL the other aspects of living that actually affect your life...gambling on medicine, housing, your significant other. All I'm seeing is complaining that people might not get the game they want...they are entitled to try if someone gives them that opportunity.

To be fair, gambling does indeed apply to many things. If we're going off of just simple logical deduction.
Now whether or not any of such topics SHOULD be a gamble is an entirely other debate. That being said, you're getting a tad off topic.

Loot Boxes are indeed a form of gambling, this much is true.
Is the practice wrong, though? At that point we start to hit the root of it and ultimately there will be different opinions as this essentially boils down to a matter of personal values. Though, for this particular topic regarding random games being featured, I'd say that its more stupid than anything else? The reaction from others in this thread can serve as evidence enough of that. There is a huge difference between something like random merchandise from Loot Crate and random video games from this. Especially in an age where we are seeing more and more of an aggressive push towards digital downloads, what reason would Gamers have to spend money on this? If they are looking for older games from the NES or ATARI era then that typically means they are looking for something in specific. It would prove faster and more cost effective to simply hunt for those particular titles as opposed to playing slots in this sense for a very low if not non-existent chance of getting what they want.

The concept just sounds silly. I can't imagine there possibly being very many actually willing to buy into this.

Crazycrab likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Rain said:

I, for the life of me can't see why this is gambling. They are paying for a product even though they have no idea what that product actually is until they get it. It's the same as that Blue Apron or whatever that service is where you get a random meal in a box and cook it...except it's a random game to play instead of food to eat.

 

No one with rational thinking will ever call loot crates gambling, it simply isn't except for the fact you're lucky if you get what you want. The consumer is paying for a random game, they are not placing a bet and looking for a decent payout and I'm like 99.9% sure the crates don't come empty. If those loot crates do arrive empty then ok that's fucked up and I would definitely consider that gambling because you are paying money and there's a chance to get absolutely nothing at all which is the epitome of gambling.

 

8 hours ago, Rain said:

Because by your standards everything would be gambling. Just because it relates slightly to dictionary.com does not make it a form of actual gambling. I gamble when i buy games, will it be worth the money I spend. I gamble when I buy food I've never had, will it taste good, will I get my nutrients, will I get sick. I gamble when I buy beer, will I enjoy it and will it do it's job. Lighten up and who cares, people spend money on what they hope to get and if kids are out there spending money then blame their parents for not being a parent.

 

You can argue all day that it's gambling but what about ALL the other aspects of living that actually affect your life...gambling on medicine, housing, your significant other. All I'm seeing is complaining that people might not get the game they want...they are entitled to try if someone gives them that opportunity.

 

Here's the thing, there is difference between a purchace and a gamble. There is a risk to a purchase like in a gamble, sure, but there's there's also a kind of simple set of rights to go with it, rights that don't apply to a gamble. What these lootboxs are doing is replacing your buyers rights with a slot mschine. OK, I realy need milk, so I'm gonna go to my local convenience and pull on the fun bar in the hope i get some instead of an out of date chocolate bar I don't want. Or how about this example, buying feul for your car. Would you be happy to see a fruit machine on gas pump knowing that it's heavily in the houses favour and will almost certainly pay more because there's no regulations in place to make sure this is done fairly?

 

That is a lootbox! At least with DLC you paid a price then got exatly what you wanted. Not only are lootboxs is a definite form of gambling but not even a fair nor morally sound sound one. Remember that CS:GO gambling controversy when popular youtubers who owned CS:GO Lotto filmed and streemed themselves playing those slots with altered odds to make it look like evetyone could win allot more than they risked? They can do that because, unlike in real gambling, there are no laws to regulate odds. Do you really believe that the lookboxs aren't exploiting the hell out of not only that, but the fact that you don't have to be of a certain age before you can bet on these? If you think they aren't then that is very foolish.

 

This may be a little extreme, but I see this as something similar as a buisness giving kids cigarettes and alcohol to try them out. Gambling is outlawed to people below a certain age for same reason as those other things for a reason. It's a potentially very additive and dangerous activity that younger minds just aren't able to proparly handle. Just like how you wouldn't let a six year watch a horror film. There are diffences between Casinos and these lookboxes, not denying that, but the way it prays on your psychology is the same, only this time a gamble with no rules. That's what really concerns me about this. Even if it's not there yet, it's going to place that's very dark indeed.

Crazycrab likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree it's a ridiculous practice and there's going to be a set demographic that will actually buy into this...but I don't see it as a problem because this loot crate crap is a fad and will eventually die out. I still don't call this gambling, you see what's possible to get in each crate and you know there's a 100% chance to get anything from that list. You don't get the game you set your sights on it's no big deal you still got something. Who in their right mind will say "I only want this 1 game out of the 50 listed so let me try my luck over and over"? A gamer that finds the website and decides to try it will look through each crate and find the one with the most games they would want...you don't have that option in actual gambling. Actual gambling you go in not knowing the outcome with a high chance to lose everything. I only related this to buying food to get my point across that gambling is too relative a term, you can't actually relate it to buying food because you NEED food and you definitely don't need games. Same with Shagger's examples of gas and milk, you can't relate this to necessities. Loot crates will only be found in non-essential items (games, virtual items, magazines), the day one shows up in a grocery store kiss the world goodbye hell just broke loose.

 

As for the kids again and them getting involved in this, they must be rich and money not an object because if I was that age I would have no means of participating and my parents would laugh if I asked for money for this. I also obviously agree kids have no place in a real world gambling situation but as I said before that's on the parents. If kids can freely throw money away in an open real world market then parents are letting them do what they want. Kids don't have a credit card and if they do some bank allowed their parents to add them to the account which I don't think even is possible. So if they spend on a card it's going to be their parent's card and hate to be a broken record...but that's the parent's fault for giving them that access and deserve to have a whole in their bank account. Sure the business practice is evil for exploiting this, but all they are offering is a new means to acquire games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just watched Biscuit's video on the matter, he pretty much says what I'm trying to say regarding loot crates. Glad to see I'm not crazy and alone in my thought process, someone out there screamed GAMBLING at some point and everyone jumped on that idea without thinking it through. Just to reiterate, I'm not supporting loot crates I'm merely trying to get the point across no one is getting ripped off and it's not as shady as everyone is making it out to be...it's just a ridiculous fad. Jump to the 2:00 mark if you don't want to watch it all.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, the same asshole who supported Online passes and disc based DRM......  I'll pass thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Crazycrab said:

Yeah, the same asshole who supported Online passes and disc based DRM......  I'll pass thanks.

It's not him and his actual perspective, he explains how governments and lawmakers or whoever don't see these blind boxes as a form of gambling and because of that won't be put in check. He even says that maybe that should change given the direction the loot crates are going. But that's not going to happen because you are getting a product in this particular case, doesn't mean a damn thing if it's not the one you want. You claim you are baffled how I can't see what's in front of my face...maybe you should look in the mirror because the law is saying something you don't agree with and you can't take it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rain said:

It's not him and his actual perspective, he explains how governments and lawmakers or whoever don't see these blind boxes as a form of gambling and because of that won't be put in check. He even says that maybe that should change given the direction the loot crates are going. But that's not going to happen because you are getting a product in this particular case, doesn't mean a damn thing if it's not the one you want. You claim you are baffled how I can't see what's in front of my face...maybe you should look in the mirror because the law is saying something you don't agree with and you can't take it.

 

Well congratulations finding one video from one popular YouTuber who agree's with you,  I could post a dozen or more form Angry Joe, Boogie 2988, Yong Yea, The Know, RTU, Jim Sterling, Sid Alpha.... The list go's on forever! Face it, you and him are in the minority here. That's not even the point though, I post what I think, not what someone else does.

 

I'd happily debate it with you but I REALLY fucking hate this guy, he's only pro-consumer when it suits exclusivity his own demographic.  Most of the time he only cares about publishers and that's exactly doesn't make a fuss about shitty anti-consumer practices like this.  So I'm not going take him seriously, then leave it at that.  I don't want to derail this topic.

Glaice likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I completely agree with you and so does he actually (in the sense that loot crates are a bane to gaming) but he has a point, until someone blows dynamite in the ears of lawmakers companies are free to do this crap. Even then it still won't be true gambling, but at least they won't be taking advantage of us gamers and making far more money than they should. That site you linked even shows them bragging about how many crates they've sold, they might as well be laughing at their customers.

 

To be honest when it comes to laws and factual news I really don't trust any of the names you mentioned either including Joe lol. I have valid reasons but as you said, derailing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now