Battlefront 2 loot crates Angry Rant.

[Kaz32 1,233]

I played the beta, and I am as suspicious as Joe about these loot crates. Why the hell are character buffs, progressions, weapons and cosmetic items in there?? Why not just the cosmetic items?? Because we got no choice, and EA is still a greedy ass SOB.

 

And this is the first time I notice that credits thing. I ranked like 10th out of 20 people in matches usually, and I always got like 80 credits. I mean I'm fine since I just play for fun, but it must have sucked for the people in 1st place to get the same amount of credits. I sure hope the full game will fix this, which fingers crossed will happen, but most likely not.

 

Now I'm highly concerned about this game. At first I'm thinking of getting it, but this halts my interest. I'm going to see if the campaign is actually lengthy or not and if these crates + credits issues has been fixed at launch first. 

 

But hey, either way it's better than COD® WW2.

 

[Crazycrab 931]

If they made it possible to earn those Customisation Parts by playing alone rather than in the loot crates, or even you could buy your weapons and customisation's with the credits directly then this might be little more tolerable but no....  you are actually forced to go through the RNG gambling system just to get the damn parts!

 

I'm so sick of this!  I've said it a billion times before and I'll say it again, why not just have a simple storefront where we can spend in currency or real money for skins and shit?  WHY THIS RNG CRAP! At this I would be willing to make a compromise, if the said storefront has nothing that fundamentally breaks the balance (as no op equipment or abilities) then fine!

 

I think it's time regulatory bodies like the ESRB and the BBFC step in and actually take action against the publishers that do this in their products!  Like put a logo on the box art and promotional material saying something like "In app gambling content" and raise the minimum age rating of all games that feature it to 18.

[Kaz32 1,233]

10 minutes ago, Crazycrab said:

I'm so sick of this!  I've said it a billion times before and I'll say it again, why not just have a simple storefront where we can spend in currency or real money for skins and shit?  WHY THIS RNG CRAP! At this I would be willing to make a compromise, if the said storefront has nothing that fundamentally breaks the balance (as no op equipment or abilities) then fine!

 

I think it's time regulatory bodies like the ESRB and the BBFC step in and actually take action against the publishers that do this in their products!  Like put a logo on the box art and promotional material saying something like "In app gambling content" and raise the minimum age rating of all games that feature it to 18.

Well..... because that actually means the people don't have to use microtransaction. And EA wants those dollas in their pocket. And since it's legal, this kind of thing will happen again. And again. And again.

 

I think the better alternative is for the UN to create a new legislation: completely eradicate all RNG loot box..... things in any game that is not a free to play game. Any company that has an RNG loot box system in their paid game will be fined 50% of every game copy sold. That'll sting them right in the ass.

 

But in order to do that we need someone that's powerful politically that's a huge gamer and want to change the broken system. Which.... looking at who the presidents and world leaders are now.......... pretty much means it ain't gonna happen until decades later.

[Crazycrab 931]

24 minutes ago, Kaz32 said:

But in order to do that we need someone that's powerful politically that's a huge gamer and want to change the broken system. Which.... looking at who the presidents and world leaders are now.......... pretty much means it ain't gonna happen until decades later.

 

Well you say that, but this has happened before.  Remember when Dungeon keeper was released on mobile?  That app was pretty much the straw that broke the camels back with "Freemium" games afew years ago.  I think it was the BBFC that forced to Apple, google among others to change from "Free" to "get" and that only happened in a little a over a month.

 

I mean yeah that is very minor change but still it's that proof that these people can step in.  There is also charities that have some influence as well like Gamble Aware who could step in against these publishers to like they have done against numerous Bookmakers, advertisers and websites in the past.

[Kaz32 1,233]

1 hour ago, Crazycrab said:

 

Well you say that, but this has happened before.  Remember when Dungeon keeper was released on mobile?  That app was pretty much the straw that broke the camels back with "Freemium" games afew years ago.  I think it was the BBFC that forced to Apple, google among others to change from "Free" to "get" and that only happened in a little a over a month.

 

I mean yeah that is very minor change but still it's that proof that these people can step in.  There is also charities that have some influence as well like Gamble Aware who could step in against these publishers to like they have done against numerous Bookmakers, advertisers and websites in the past.

That app is a scam, and of course changes are made when EVERYONE notice the bullshit and complain about it. I hope the same thing can happen with this lootbox crap, but in order for that to happen, no one should buy the game so EA will be like "oh fuck, we aren't getting money! We need to fix this lootbox system now so they'll buy the game!" Otherwise if people buy the game they'll be like "heh, we won't change anything. You bought the game already so we got your money chumps!" 

 

Same thing that happens with Lawbreakers and Rainbow Six Siege. It sold so poorly initially, that the dev actually think of stuff to change the games to make them actually better, and in the case of Rainbow Six Siege, the game outshines its former self now with stuff that improves the game significantly.

[Malphisto 65]

I'm so glad someone made this thread. I saw the video last night and got so pissed off over it that I couldn't fall asleep. Was even considering making this thread myself just to give me an outlet for said rant/emotions. Which speaking of...

This crap isn't funny. It has moved far away from being even remotely joke-worthy. Call me crazy, but the rate at which micro-transactions have been aggressively spreading to all manner of other games seems to be dramatically increasing. I think to date, if I'm not mistaken, 2017 has seen an alarming rise in this practice with more and more "popular" franchises introducing them for the first time to the point that its becoming a common topic in the news for at least myself. Let us not forget that Bethesda is once again also trying to implement Paid Mods with their Creation Club shtick and they are apparently doubling down on it this time. It is literally no different from micros, its just not being called that.

 

Jim Sterling put out a new video addressing this topic as well today for his show, but even then he missed a few points that should honestly be getting addressed. The bottom line here is that its all 100% a greed driven practice. There is zero reason for it. Mind you, I'm perfectly fine with concepts such as DLC/Expansions, assuming it isn't just cut content that's being held ransom which happens way more often than it should. But that $60 price tag is no joke. The argument that likes to get tossed around by the brainwashed nimrods, who have been conditioned over the years to just accept whatever is given to them, is that the base cost of games somehow isn't enough for these companies to turn a profit.

Bull. Shit.

This entire notion was already disproven by CD Projekt Red with The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt. A game that cost $60, with beautiful graphics, well portrayed and fully voice acted characters and NPCs with a massive open world setting and an award winning story that personally had me crying at the end. (Not to mention plenty of replay value because it even features multiple different endings based on what you do in the game) They were even putting out FREE DLC for it. It was almost like a direct insult to all these other AAA companies out there. I happily paid for both of their expansions which even came with a real life Gwent card game.

The other factors that consistently get ignored or overlooked by others, including Jim, is the fact that while the base $60 price tag has remained the same over the years, there is also a shit load more people BUYING said games now all over the world. The Games Industry only continues to grow as the Gaming Community does as well. Its grown so large to the point that now we have legit eSports which back in the olden days was just a friggen pipe dream some of us would fantasize about playing on our Super NES or Sega Genesis. Or Pokemon Red/Blue on Gameboy. More consumers automatically translates to greater return for products being sold. So even though the cost of games has gone up over time, so has the number of sales to compensate. (Not to mention the fact we have Indie Devs out there making amazing games with next to no real funding for them and even they end up making a hefty profit off of sales)

And this isn't to say that Jim didn't make an excellent argument, because he did. Especially at the end of his video where he pointed out that literally no one was ASKING for games to cost so much. Yes, the boost to graphics is nice, but I've made the argument in the past that you don't need photo realistic graphics to have an amazing game. Some of the most iconic, legendary games in history paled in comparison to the graphics of today. But that's because their story, gameplay and character elements were all amazing. For example, the old school Final Fantasy 7 was epic. Meanwhile, I'm predicting FF7 Remake is going to just look friggen amazing yet ultimately fail to compare with the original. Because at the end of the day, graphics aren't the only thing that matters. (Ultima III: Exodus for the NES still remains in my Top 10 RPGs of all time)

 

Perhaps even more frustrating are those who try saying that "micros being in games is just the norm now" as if that somehow justifies the practice. It doesn't. If the Gaming Community were to actually come together on these issues and protest this horseshit then yeah, it would stop. Companies are in the business to make money. They are machines with the sole intention and purpose of generating the greatest bottom line possible for products being sold. If they could get away with selling people a game that is literally just a button you press that costs $1 each time you press it, they would. In a heartbeat. The only reason they don't is because that shit wouldn't fly and they would obviously get medieval levels of backlash for it. In fact the ONLY reason that micro-transactions weren't already a thing in every single game we see is BECAUSE said companies are afraid of the potential fallout and damage to their brands/sales.

 

This basically means that the ONLY reason we're also seeing a dramatic rise in these practices across so many games now is because more companies are becoming less and less afraid of us. We no longer strike the fear of God in them with the thunder of our mighty wallets closing.

Gamers have always factored into this equation. We have always held the responsibility of establishing and maintaining set STANDARDS for what is or isn't alright. And every time we give these companies an inch, they take a mile. We can't afford to keep losing ground to them. Like, literally cannot afford. Its not as if our economy and minimum wage is improving...

Its NEVER too late to change industry trends. This fact remains true no matter how bleak a situation may look. They only want us to believe its some impossible task so as to discourage any efforts made against them. People do change as well. For example, I used to defend Halo 5's micro-transactions because its effectively doing the exact same thing as this game; Free DLC and Maps. But gradually, over time I began to realize just how hollow my accomplishments were in the game. And mind you, I have logged a shit load of hours on H5. But when I went back and played H4? I remembered how much more of a challenge and enjoyment I got from that experience. If I wanted that badass Gungnir Armor then I had to unlock it through personal achievement. And everyone who saw me wearing it would know that yes, I did in fact earn that badass armor. That's called TRUE Player Progression. When you feel like you have actually accomplished a grand feat and the reward is proof of it.

It may take a long while to happen. It may require these companies taking it to such an extreme level that even the ardent defenders of these practices among our own kind are just flatout unable to justify their own bullshit anymore, and likewise join together finally to fight back against it. (Hopefully it doesn't need to get to the point of having games that are just buttons you press...)

Never Give Up. Never Surrender.

[Rain 458]

I've already voiced my opinion on this in Discord, but they should just stick with Battlefield's method and unlock weapons via class xp and customization for weapons via weapon xp. Purchasing upgrades (unless done like CoD with the skill point) is just ridiculous no matter how you set it up and the loot crate RNG is the worse way to do it. They have the opportunity to blow all other competitive shooters out of the water because the gameplay, graphics and sound are already god tier...they just need to desperately fix the progression system.

[Rain 458]

21 hours ago, Malphisto said:

And this isn't to say that Jim didn't make an excellent argument, because he did. Especially at the end of his video where he pointed out that literally no one was ASKING for games to cost so much. Yes, the boost to graphics is nice, but I've made the argument in the past that you don't need photo realistic graphics to have an amazing game. Some of the most iconic, legendary games in history paled in comparison to the graphics of today. But that's because their story, gameplay and character elements were all amazing. For example, the old school Final Fantasy 7 was epic. Meanwhile, I'm predicting FF7 Remake is going to just look friggen amazing yet ultimately fail to compare with the original. Because at the end of the day, graphics aren't the only thing that matters. (Ultima III: Exodus for the NES still remains in my Top 10 RPGs of all time)

 

Well you forget that during the era those titles were released those WERE cutting edge graphics. We didn't have xbox one or anything back then with superior graphics.

[Malphisto 65]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

Well you forget that during the era those titles were released those WERE cutting edge graphics. We didn't have xbox one or anything back then with superior graphics.

I'm well aware, the point I'm trying to make is that there shouldn't be such a huge emphasis on graphics. Personally I found the Xbox 360 and PS3 to have already achieved a decent level of graphics. But this constant "chasing the dragon" mentality is just ludicrous at this point. As a prime example let us look no further then the SWB franchise itself.
 

The 2004 game really didn't look THAT much different by comparison and the gameplay experience was friggen amazing. I spent hours upon hours playing the hell out of that game. And that was back on the PS2 and Xbox, mind you. Are the graphics better in the 2017 game? Yes. That much isn't being argued. The assertion though is that it really shouldn't be such a central focus for people. (Because there are people out there who think graphics are everything) I would much prefer developers have a stronger focus on gameplay elements and the overall experience itself which is what you'll actually be doing in said games.

Hell, I would still argue that the older SWB games are still superior to the newer ones.

[Luypie 1]

On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 10:32 PM, Malphisto said:

This basically means that the ONLY reason we're also seeing a dramatic rise in these practices across so many games now is because more companies are becoming less and less afraid of us. We no longer strike the fear of God in them with the thunder of our mighty wallets closing.

I think the current lootbox system in BF2 is a very important and not misunderstood test that we need to be very alert about. After our initial outrage and anger have dropped a bit more, we must pay particular attention to what EA will try afterwards. I think this is their way of testing and looking how far they can go with this system. We all know there is no bright thinking person on EA who didn't know that this system was very bad and  would provoked a lot of controversy. I think they looked at it from two extremes. On one side of the spectrum, you have the game completely "free" (outside the purchase price) and on the other hand you have the current system (which forces you to pay a lot extra)
They're just going to continue testing and adjusting until they've discovered what's furest they can go in us swallowing microtransactions. They have already announced adjustments. The risk is that we are faced with a very bad system, which means that a modified less bad system (but still bad) is seen as an improvement.They will tweak and adjust untill they find hardly any resitance anymore.
This is, in my opinion, the real danger if we are not vigilant as a community. I think this fits right in the process of them getting less afraid of us.

[Malphisto 65]

The main issue we're facing here is that the industry as a whole is trying to "normalize" this level of corporate bullshit. The top dogs like EA, Activision and Ubisoft have for a very long time tried to establish a sort of monopoly in the market. This has gradually shifted the power/control away from we the Gamers to the corporations. Instead of us being the ones to set the standards for company policy, they do whatever they want and just expect us to deal with it. They spent YEARS conditioning the Gamer Community to be complacent and go along with their agenda. Many will even go out of their way to defend such anti-consumer practices, like the battered spouse living in an abusive relationship.

It sucks, dude.

Unfortunately, the grim reality here is that the only way to stem the tide of this cancer is for these games to fail...
There's no sugar coating it. The games that employ these practices need to crash and burn, lose both player numbers and sales. Its gonna suck. There's gonna be a lot of potentially amazing games that will suffer as a result. Possibly studios too. But that's going to be the only way to correct the imbalance of the situation.

[Luypie 1]

3 hours ago, Malphisto said:

The main issue we're facing here is that the industry as a whole is trying to "normalize" this level of corporate bullshit

I agree. That is why the Activision patent is very worrying. They were quick to say that it was only an idea that was once researched but I really think that this is an option that they want to implement. I wonder to what extent they already apply these methods (or some form)

I also agree that this should be stopped, although the boycott of such a large publisher seems to be impossible. Rather than a boycott, i think rewarding a gamedeveloper that tries it differently (eg CD Project Red) is more effective. Massive support for these companies might be more feasible. I'm not sure what the correct answer is about this. But it seems that boycotting does not really work. There's been  a lot of concern and anger about microtransactions for many years now among the consumers but still companies simply continue to do so. So how to react and try to stop this is a more difficult problem that requires more thought than only a boycot.

I am convinced that in the long run a company that makes its games through values and norms instead of moneygains makes more profit. 

But how do you get that clear ?