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smuniz83

Belgium rules that loot boxes IS GAMBLING!!!

17 posts in this topic

Guys big news. Belgium has declared that loot boxes is gambling. Not only that, the rule is being passed on to all of Europe so they can adopt the ruling.

 

Personally I'm happy about this if things go as I have them planned in my head which is that we start getting decent games. However that's not a ruling here in the U.S. so we may or may not get the same thing as the EU were they may get games without loot boxes while here we continue to get games with such things. Hopefully this is a change for the better and we can finally start getting decent games aaaaaaannnnnnd... star wars battlefront 2 might actually become decent and worth buying like we all wanted (also need for speed). What do you guys think? Share below.

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Guys big news. Belgium has declared that loot boxes is gambling. Not only that, the rule is being passed on to all of Europe so they can adopt the ruling.

Apparently while a statement was made by Minister of Justice saying it was gambling and they wanted it banned, nothing is really decided yet

 

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Hopefully this is a change for the better and we can finally start getting decent games aaaaaaannnnnnd... star wars battlefront 2 might actually become decent and worth buying like we all wanted (also need for speed).

We already have a large number of great games that don't use microtransactions or loot boxes, if you're really against these kind of business practices I wouldn't recommend immediately supporting the company by buying their games just because legal and sale issues made them to reconsider or to make small changes to what they were doing, it would be better to support and praise the large number of games that don't do these things in the first place.

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7 hours ago, smuniz83 said:

Guys big news. Belgium has declared that loot boxes is gambling. Not only that, the rule is being passed on to all of Europe so they can adopt the ruling.

 

Personally I'm happy about this if things go as I have them planned in my head which is that we start getting decent games. However that's not a ruling here in the U.S. so we may or may not get the same thing as the EU were they may get games without loot boxes while here we continue to get games with such things. Hopefully this is a change for the better and we can finally start getting decent games aaaaaaannnnnnd... star wars battlefront 2 might actually become decent and worth buying like we all wanted (also need for speed). What do you guys think? Share below.

 

Well actually it is getting some traction in the US. US House of Representatives Member for the State of Hawaii Chris Lee along with representatives of parental, religious and gaming communicates releases this statement regarding the predatory gambling practices of EA and other game publishers.

 

 

A number of YouTubers have made videos responding to the situation here and in Belgium as well.  Here is a couple of examples:

 

Sid Alpha

YongYea

 

I'm glad that official government bodies are FINALLY starting to listen, but the gaming community needs to keep the pressure up for 2018 to be the death of the lootbox.

 

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When discussing the anti-consumer, damaging buisness practices that prey on people vulnerable to addictive traits in a Star Wars game, the guy litterally says "It's a trap". YOU DID THAT ON PURPOSE! Even if he denys that I'm still gonna believe it's true, because life is just better if it is.

 

In all seriousness though, this combined with the Belgian verdic on the game a great steps forward.

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5 hours ago, Legolas_Katarn said:

Apparently while a statement was made by Minister of Justice saying it was gambling and they wanted it banned, nothing is really decided yet

 

We already have a large number of great games that don't use microtransactions or loot boxes, if you're really against these kind of business practices I wouldn't recommend immediately supporting the company by buying their games just because legal and sale issues made them to reconsider or to make small changes to what they were doing, it would be better to support and praise the large number of games that don't do these things in the first place.

First off, this isn't about microtransactions.... it's about loot boxes, as in paying(whether real or in game currency) for an item that you are not guaranteed to get. If you could buy items outright then it's just microtransactions and I don't have a problem with that so long as the items you can buy don't hamper the experience if it's a multiplayer game (P2W). 

 

Second, I already don't support companies that do these shady practices. You don't see me walking around with need for speed or star wars Battlefront 2 (2 games I wanted to buy). Last game I bought was Horizon zero dawn for PS4 and before that The Evil Within 2. Two great games that don't have such shady practices at work. My post was merely a, hey guys here some news about the Belgium ruling.

3 hours ago, Crazycrab said:

 

Well actually it is getting some traction in the US. US House of Representatives Member for the State of Hawaii Chris Lee along with representatives of parental, religious and gaming communicates releases this statement regarding the predatory gambling practices of EA and other game publishers.

 

 

A number of YouTubers have made videos responding to the situation here and in Belgium as well.  Here is a couple of examples:

 

Sid Alpha

YongYea

 

I'm glad that official government bodies are FINALLY starting to listen, but the gaming community needs to keep the pressure up for 2018 to be the death of the lootbox.

 

That's great news. Hopefully the fact that we have legislators here in the US fighting against loot boxes is enough to scare companies to make games more for entertainment than trying to bring a casino to your house.

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5 hours ago, Legolas_Katarn said:

Apparently while a statement was made by Minister of Justice saying it was gambling and they wanted it banned, nothing is really decided yet

All the articles I've read say that Belgium has RULED that loot boxes is considered gambling. So doesn't that mean that they have decided and it's just a matter of enforcing said ruling? 

 

The rest is that it's being pushed to the rest of the EU so that means that the rest of the EU hasn't ruled the loot boxes is gambling right?

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Second, I already don't support companies that do these shady practices. You don't see me walking around with need for speed or star wars Battlefront 2 (2 games I wanted to buy).

In your first post you said the games might become worth buying

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All the articles I've read say that Belgium has RULED that loot boxes is considered gambling. So doesn't that mean that they have decided and it's just a matter of enforcing said ruling?

I don't know if something changed again but yesterday articles were saying they made a ruling, today people and that article were saying that while a statement was made by someone saying they think it's gambling that a Belgium gaming site misinterpreted it as them having ended the investigation and then that spread to other English sites.

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Ok, just my two cents worth...

While I absolutely HATE this whole loot box band wagon that major AAA game developers have jumped on...getting the government involved is a VERY bad idea in the long run. One thing I love about AJSA is we have something of an unspoken rule to keep discussions on politics brief and civil if they pop up at all. But this is an area where I think there is massive potential for it to spin out of control. Personally I am very suspicious whenever the government is eager to "help". Usually its a pretext for them to get their grubby hands on it so they can regulate the hell out of it. I'm sure some of our Australian members could share some horror stories on the regulation of violent video games and what a mixed bag it is.

As the old saying goes: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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1 hour ago, PlasticFrogCG said:

Ok, just my two cents worth...

While I absolutely HATE this whole loot box band wagon that major AAA game developers have jumped on...getting the government involved is a VERY bad idea in the long run. One thing I love about AJSA is we have something of an unspoken rule to keep discussions on politics brief and civil if they pop up at all. But this is an area where I think there is massive potential for it to spin out of control. Personally I am very suspicious whenever the government is eager to "help". Usually its a pretext for them to get their grubby hands on it so they can regulate the hell out of it. I'm sure some of our Australian members could share some horror stories on the regulation of violent video games and what a mixed bag it is.

As the old saying goes: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Sadly, at least for here in the US, this does seem to be true most of the time. Hopefully it just acts as a scare tactic for the video game industry to change the way they do games, i.e. not trying to bring gambling to your house, and don't actually pass any policies on video games.

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2 hours ago, PlasticFrogCG said:

Ok, just my two cents worth...

While I absolutely HATE this whole loot box band wagon that major AAA game developers have jumped on...getting the government involved is a VERY bad idea in the long run. One thing I love about AJSA is we have something of an unspoken rule to keep discussions on politics brief and civil if they pop up at all. But this is an area where I think there is massive potential for it to spin out of control. Personally I am very suspicious whenever the government is eager to "help". Usually its a pretext for them to get their grubby hands on it so they can regulate the hell out of it. I'm sure some of our Australian members could share some horror stories on the regulation of violent video games and what a mixed bag it is.

As the old saying goes: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

The only thing the government can do to help EA, Activision etc is ignore everything that's going on. If those few select greedy politicians try to take advantage and deem lootboxes NOT gambling to regulate and gain a cut, what happens next...massive blowback from those that have already classified them as gambling. The word is out they are considered a form of gambling, so if the government intervenes they will more than likely make it official at some point and ESRB will change. That means change in all games that utilize the lootbox system probably with the P2W format and a massive cut in sales and outright bans in some countries.

 

Or worst case scenario, say you're right and the government gets it to work in the developers favor. Once the gamers and even vast majority hear about it instant boycott on games taking full advantage, look at what happened with Battlefront 2 without all that government drama. Imagine it 10x worse if the government openly says "Hey developers, keep up the good work with lootboxes they are not considered gambling nothing changes just give us our cut in taxes".

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One thing I love about AJSA is we have something of an unspoken rule to keep discussions on politics brief and civil if they pop up at all.

What's able to be talked about has a section in the Code of Conduct, it's really not unspoken.

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On 22/11/2017 at 8:25 PM, PlasticFrogCG said:

Ok, just my two cents worth...

While I absolutely HATE this whole loot box band wagon that major AAA game developers have jumped on...getting the government involved is a VERY bad idea in the long run. One thing I love about AJSA is we have something of an unspoken rule to keep discussions on politics brief and civil if they pop up at all. But this is an area where I think there is massive potential for it to spin out of control. Personally I am very suspicious whenever the government is eager to "help". Usually its a pretext for them to get their grubby hands on it so they can regulate the hell out of it. I'm sure some of our Australian members could share some horror stories on the regulation of violent video games and what a mixed bag it is.

As the old saying goes: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

Well who else is going to get involved?  Gamer's have taken it as far as it can go by "voting with our wallets" and you know what, it hasn't worked.  Companies like Take Two, EA, Activation and Blizzard just shrug of our complaints because it's still making them money had over fist, they don't give a shit and there is even some that passionately defend them!

 

As gamer and consumer I fell like I've done everything I can by calling out this bullshit with people on the internet including some in this very community attacking ME for doing so!  To this day I have NEVER purchased a game with loot box system (aside from the debatable Assassins Creed Origins) and I've certainly never spent a fucking penny on any microtransaction outside a handful of occasions in free-to-play games.  The only other game in any of my PC or Console libraries that has this gambling bullshit is Quake Champions the code for which came free with my CPU, I played for 10 minutes and checked out immediately when I saw it (it's basically just another Overwatch clone).

 

So you tell me.....  if petitioning our Governments and supporting politicians that are pushing legislation against these gambling mechanics it is not the answer then what the hell is?  That by the way is a legitimate question because if there is someone out has a solution that works and doesn't involve our governments I am just begging to hear it!

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On 11/22/2017 at 7:41 PM, Crazycrab said:

 

Well who else is going to get involved?  Gamer's have taken it as far as it can go by "voting with our wallets" as you know what, it hasn't worked.  Companies like Take Two, EA, Activation and Blizzard just shrug of our complaints because it's still making them money had over fist, they don't give a shit and there is even some that passionately defend them!

 

As gamer and consumer I fell like I've done everything I can by calling out this bullshit with people on the internet including some in this very community attacking ME for doing so!  To this day I have NEVER purchased a game with loot box system (aside from the debatable Assassins Creed Origins) and I've certainly never spent a fucking penny on any microtransaction outside a handful of occasions in free-to-play games.  The only other game in any of my PC or Console libraries that has this gambling bullshit is Quake Champions the code for which came free with my CPU, I played for 10 minutes and checked out immediately when I saw it (it's basically just another Overwatch clone).

 

So you tell me.....  if petitioning our Governments and supporting politicians that are pushing legislation against these gambling mechanics it is not the answer then what the hell is?  That by the way is a legitimate question because if there is someone out has a solution that works and doesn't involve our governments I am just begging to hear it!

 

That's exactly what I've been thinking about ever since I posted.

I think what's really bothering me is the idea behind all this. It doesn't feel right to me that voting with our wallets didn't work, even though you're clearly right that it hasn't. Having to call in the big guns with legislation makes me feel small and powerless, like maybe Corporate Commander isn't just a caricature created by Angry Joe.

In the long run I honestly don't know what to expect, but if I really think about it...could it really be that bad? I mean if they do start regulating games by content, by the time it's in place I'll be an old man who is content to play the latest VR Puzzle Quest. And I already ignore new online shooters like CoD and Battlefront, so what am I complaining about? :D

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I hate gambling in my games, and I've seen it as a problem long before overwatch or loot boxes. The biggest culprit are korean mmos. I think games like Elsword and Vindictus for example are excellent games, but they reek of profiting off of conning youth into gambling. While they do in fact have boxes you pay for with random crap, often crap with the mere hope of something amazing. They also have a non-box thing which is even worse IMO. Basically they make it so you can upgrade your equipment up to a certain point (like +5 or +6 or something), but beyond that, the price of failure (and it's a random success/failure thing) are not only high as foo, like. your equipment breaks completely and you have no way to get it back without surprise, buying an item you can only get using RL cash. But also resetting its upgrade back to 0. In addition they make the chances of failure higher than the chances of success! To make matters worse they also make it so that the power level of each upgrade goes higher and higher each time. So much so that a mediocre +10 item can blow the socks off of the best +6 item in the game. and goodness knows if you got the most powerful in the game at +10!

 

I honestly don't get how these schemes are so profitable. I played these games and refused to cooperate with their tactics, often making it an uphill, but satisfying battle to maintain a certain level of viability for end game content. But the number of people/friendslist people, forum people, etc who admit to spending hundreds or thousands of dollars each year to these games is not insignificant. They always say how stupid they are for doing it, and they do it again and again.

 

Honestly I feel it's wrong even if these games didn't profit from kids potentially. i mean even adult-only casios and whatever have heavy government regulation. But these games get away with it scott free. Frankly overwatch loot boxes are pristine in comparison imo.

 

And yeah I know western governments trying to crack down on korean mmo tactics would probably only make them not bother localizing to that country rather than try to adopt another profit scheme but still, it's something I would like more people to be aware of/vocal about.

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