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Blistig

The current like system

27 posts in this topic

I have to admit that I do not understand what purpose our like system in its current form serves, and why there is no option to dislike a post.

 

The amount of likes a user has is supposed to signify his or her standing within the community, right? With "neutral" being the starting point as well as the lowest possible standing, where's the point?

And what does "good" or "excellent" mean? Could be the guy likes to debate, makes art or simply posts lots of witty comments.

It didn't even bother me that much until the PS4 raffle was started a couple of days ago, with the requirement to participate being that you have to have a "good" standing within the community. How does that make sense when the concept of "standing" is so arbitrary?

 

Regarding dislikes: I have read some posts in this forum that have made me want to slap the snot out of the poster, yet the only options available are ignoring, replying to a post and liking it.

I realize that doing nothing but disliking a post wouldn't help in any way or resolve anything, and that discussion is always necessary, but it sure would have felt good. Probably hard to implement though if it doesn't come shipped with the ip.board software.

 

What I'm doing right now is criticizing without giving alternative solutions, I know that, but first I would be interested in some of your thoughts on this.

 

 

Thought about posting this topic in the suggestions forum, still not sure if it fits into general.

 

AJSA Strazyplus and Shiirow like this

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Idea of "standing in the community" is good but basically comes down if people like your posts or not,and it can be flawed. Which is why I put "hey if you liked my post or found it helpful, like it!"

 

Over coming months the shine on AJSA will rub off and will likely shed some members as well issues will reveal themselves and some will try to hurt the community and stir problems. (already saw one whine about his topic being removed and went on about no longer wearing tags)

 

I plan to stick around and help AJSA as commanders and Joe himself will be learning how to do things properly within the group and mistakes will be made as we are human. I usually go to communities that have been around for yyyyeeaaarrrsssssssssss so they already understood how to do things. but I like AJ so gonna give AJSA a go and stick around while understanding things will be bumpy.

Blistig and Shiirow like this

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I agree 100%, the system seems flawed. I've seen folks with literally 1,000's of posts (IN ONLY TWO WEEKS!?!) and over a hundred likes because when you spam that many messages, eventually enough likes will be clicked, I suppose. I'm very confused as to the point of this system.

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I used all my likes for today in 5 minutes. I think we need to have more

Shiirow likes this

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There has been a few posts I wanted to dislike as well, but if dislike was available, people would start getting dislikes just for saying they liked a game that someone else didn't, or they would dislike a valid argument that they didn't want to hear.  Also I believe people would throw around "unjustified" dislikes and ruin someones "standing" just to be a dick.  Youtube for example, every single video with views, no matter how innocent or undislikable it may be, will have thumbs down ratings.  Yes I know everyone's views are different but I swear most dislikes are dished out just because they can.  

All in all, dislikes would be a tool for trolls IMO.  

Kedric, Shiirow and AJSA Strazyplus like this

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I agree 100%, the system seems flawed. I've seen folks with literally 1,000's of posts (IN ONLY TWO WEEKS!?!) and over a hundred likes because when you spam that many messages, eventually enough likes will be clicked, I suppose. I'm very confused as to the point of this system.

yeh snipermex was the first to reach 1000 posts, the 2nd person with the most posts had like 400 back then ( ._.)

 

 

There has been a few posts I wanted to dislike as well, but if dislike was available, people would start getting dislikes just for saying they liked a game that someone else didn't, or they would dislike a valid argument that they didn't want to hear.  Also I believe people would throw around "unjustified" dislikes and ruin someones "standing" just to be a dick.  Youtube for example, every single video with views, no matter how innocent or undislikable it may be, will have thumbs down ratings.  Yes I know everyone's views are different but I swear most dislikes are dished out just because they can.  

All in all, dislikes would be a tool for trolls IMO.  

 

being a troll myself (im a good troll so im nice :lol:) i can confirm putting a dislike option is BAD thing

even Joe would get disliked alot by trolls

 

also the "likes" are just a way of showing how people supports you and i believe its used as a "form of influence", the more likes you got, the more influence you have (thats what i believe)

Shiirow and Tatanium2012 like this

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It didn't even bother me that much until the PS4 raffle was started a couple of days ago, with the requirement to participate being that you have to have a "good" standing within the community. How does that make sense when the concept of "standing" is so arbitrary?

 

Just for the record, that just meant that you ddin't have any strikes on you, rather than have 10+ reputation points.

 

As others have said, the community is almost brand new. We need to give time for the systems to be tweaked and polished. Also, as some have said, just adding a dislike button could be a channel for abuse. The staff looks for quality over quantity for sure.

Blistig, Shiirow, Kedric and 1 other like this

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I agree with NOT adding a dislike button. I already ignore Youtube comments completely thanks to that system. Although I'm confused as to the current point/status of the like system, I'm sure the council and Joe will figure out a way to make it work over time. It's too early to make major changes, especially since I'm sure that as time goes on those not actually dedicated to the Army and its community will move on to other places. Also, as more members join up I have a feeling things will be adjusted quite heavily.

Shiirow likes this

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also the "likes" are just a way of showing how people supports you and i believe its used as a "form of influence", the more likes you got, the more influence you have (thats what i believe)

 

I think it's wrong to dismiss the argument like that.

Every like isn't meaningful and fueled by love and deep understanding of the subject matter, just as every dislike isn't proof of mindless trolling.

 

I understand the points being made about the fear of trolling and abusing the system, but where's the faith in this community?

Reddit shows the worst as well as the best results of implementing such a system, and it is crystal clear there that the quality of the discussion does not depend on whether or not the system can be abused, but whether or not the users choose to do so.

Hop over to r/politics and look into a pit of filth, check out r/changemyview for the occasional troll, lots of stubbornness, but also a wealth of discussion.

 

 

I agree with NOT adding a dislike button. I already ignore Youtube comments completely thanks to that system. Although I'm confused as to the current point/status of the like system, I'm sure the council and Joe will figure out a way to make it work over time. It's too early to make major changes, especially since I'm sure that as time goes on those not actually dedicated to the Army and its community will move on to other places. Also, as more members join up I have a feeling things will be adjusted quite heavily.

 

It's true that the dangers of such a system might very well outweigh the advantages, and that adding the dislike option may fuck things up.

Something should change at some point though, because the current system just does not make sense at all, and it makes the idea of "community standing" pretty much arbitrary. At least in my eyes it does.

I would very much appreciate a comment on this from the guys running AJSA :)

 

Just for the record, that just meant that you ddin't have any strikes on you, rather than have 10+ reputation points.

 

I didn't know that! Guess what you'll get for this info? ;)

Shiirow likes this

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Maybe its a way to give positive reinforcement... with no down voting or thumbs down, the people with the most likes will usually be people who continually contribute to the forum in a positive way. At least thats how it should work in theory. Like all systems there will be those who abuse it, though Id like to think this will be minimal here.

AJSA Strazyplus likes this

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As soon as people start asking for "likes", it's time to stop using the system.  The current system is fatally flaws because, obviously, people who are friends will simply trade "likes" to run up their count.

 

I admit I don't take any notice of the count, it's meaningless.

Shiirow likes this

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It just depends on how you look at it. The number of your posts and the like count determine how well your posts are useful. So if you have 500 posts and only 12 likes. It is obvious you just post useless things for no benefit to the community other than yourself.

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It just depends on how you look at it. The number of your posts and the like count determine how well your posts are useful. So if you have 500 posts and only 12 likes. It is obvious you just post useless things for no benefit to the community other than yourself.

 

How does it determine that at all? The amount of likes does not signify what you got those likes for. Did you make a great comment that contributed to the discussion? Did you post some nice art you made? Did you post a witty comment or a funny gif? Did you post some inane, stupid and hurtful comment that has then been liked by a couple of idiots sharing your opinion, even if it is wrong (this is only an example of course)?

 

The likes say nothing about the quality of your posts, just whether or not you could coax people into pressing the like button.

 

If you have 300 posts and no likes, does that mean you post nothing but useless stuff, or does it mean your opinion is being overlooked, or not appreciated (for whatever reason)?

 

It makes no sense and provides no insight.

Kedric likes this

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How does it determine that at all? The amount of likes does not signify what you got those likes for. Did you make a great comment that contributed to the discussion? Did you post some nice art you made? Did you post a witty comment or a funny gif? Did you post some inane, stupid and hurtful comment that has then been liked by a couple of idiots sharing your opinion, even if it is wrong (this is only an example of course)?

 

The likes say nothing about the quality of your posts, just whether or not you could coax people into pressing the like button.

 

If you have 300 posts and no likes, does that mean you post nothing but useless stuff, or does it mean your opinion is being overlooked, or not appreciated (for whatever reason)?

 

It makes no sense and provides no insight.

It does because looking at it statistically, The ratio of likes you have compared to your post count can have a huge impact. A bunch of Idiots that like your posts only have 10 likes a day. Not only that but, you can also check peoples' content within their profile. So you even check and see if the person has been active and helpful to the community with their posts. You can make the decision to like their posts based on this reason. It gives people the chance to see the content that person has made. Even if you had a like and dislike feature some people will still dislike your post even if you are helpful. These so called "idiots" are have two choices don't like and like. Facebook doesn't have a dislike feature because people would be able to see what you dislike and get chastised for that. Having subtle yet simple Like systems are quintessential to a good forum or public site. The like systems may not work everywhere. So each one must have its own unique system to separate it from its competitors. This is my opinion.  

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Everyone needs to make up their own mind as to the quality versus quantity of likes. The number itself is not the point, it's meant as an indicator. It's just one measuring tool of a persons impact on the forum, not the only one. Although I feel the current system is flawed, removing or ignoring it is not the answer. Keeping the like system in context, however, is. If you are contributing to the forum in a meaningful way, you will be remembered over time, regardless of how many times someone clicked "like".

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I think only having a "like" button encourages positivity in the community, if you truly have a justifiable problem with another user, report them, and if its only minor, as in a stupid comment? either debate them or be the bigger person. Ignore them and move on.

The rating system does seem flawed.

Constantly posting in the forums will eventually garner enough likes to have a fair standing in the community but not every comment would receive a like. Meanwhile that person is an extremely active member, contributing in some small way to some users who enjoy his/her content and must not be offensive to the point of being reported and banned.

But then again, gathering friends and spam liking each others content can happen.

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I think it's wrong to dismiss the argument like that.

Every like isn't meaningful and fueled by love and deep understanding of the subject matter, just as every dislike isn't proof of mindless trolling.

 

I understand the points being made about the fear of trolling and abusing the system, but where's the faith in this community?

Reddit shows the worst as well as the best results of implementing such a system, and it is crystal clear there that the quality of the discussion does not depend on whether or not the system can be abused, but whether or not the users choose to do so.

Hop over to r/politics and look into a pit of filth, check out r/changemyview for the occasional troll, lots of stubbornness, but also a wealth of discussion.

 

 

 

It's true that the dangers of such a system might very well outweigh the advantages, and that adding the dislike option may fuck things up.

Something should change at some point though, because the current system just does not make sense at all, and it makes the idea of "community standing" pretty much arbitrary. At least in my eyes it does.

I would very much appreciate a comment on this from the guys running AJSA :)

 

 

I didn't know that! Guess what you'll get for this info? ;)

Reddit's system is a failure :)

 

anyways, theres faith in the community but Joe (and as far as im concern, myself) would NOT agree to give trolls a stealthy-trolling tool

the Standing is about how popular/old member  you are and that my friend is why the influence part comes in  ^_^

Maybe its a way to give positive reinforcement... with no down voting or thumbs down, the people with the most likes will usually be people who continually contribute to the forum in a positive way. At least thats how it should work in theory. Like all systems there will be those who abuse it, though Id like to think this will be minimal here.

i agree, while sometimes its really just a matter of opinion

my point is it still shows how much people supports you and/or trusts you, therefore proving the point of influence

 

some people give Joe likes just cuz hes Joe but also we all know Joe doesnt just type or talk shit, he actually say facts and has a logic when he states/claims something, therefore still making the point valid

As soon as people start asking for "likes", it's time to stop using the system.  The current system is fatally flaws because, obviously, people who are friends will simply trade "likes" to run up their count.

 

I admit I don't take any notice of the count, it's meaningless.

its not always true, pretty much all of my friends on AJSA never "likes" me for my opinion unless they are agreeing with it

call it being honest, it really depends

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Adding a dislike option is never a good idea. It's much more likely for people to dislike something they get angry about then to like something they agree with or found funny. We don't a post full of people with negative reputations because people kept disagreeing with their taste in video games. If any user is so bad to deserve dislikes for a real reason then most likely he already has a negative reputation with the community.

 

Most likely the system just came with the forums and that's why we have it, and why the numbers for good and excellent are set to such a low default value.

 


I realize that doing nothing but disliking a post wouldn't help in any way or resolve anything, and that discussion is always necessary, but it sure would have felt good.

 

And that's why no site should ever have a dislike button, if someone says anything really bad or is causing problems then it's bad enough to hit the report button. (although last I checked they are still working on adding a report user system)

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The like system is pretty pointless at the moment and when there really are people who say that you have to have 10 likes to post here, that just makes things worse. One thing i can say that its good to watch if someone has liked my post, ill go check out the post that has liked me and from some people i have got a lot of likes so i remember them and have a positive feeling against them.

I would rather ask why there is a sytem for showing how much posts you make. First, there are only like 3 ranks, something, something and advanced member ranks coming from that. You get advanced from about 40 and if im not mistakne than people with over 1000 posts are still advanced. 

Also in my opinion this system creates stupid topics like post your desktop picture here, rate the picture of the person above you, are you left or right handed and so on. So pretty much people who have the need of having a big posts number create stupid topics like that so they think they are bigger, better, stronger when theyre post number is up.

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Looking at your post count and your like count, you can easily see whose posts are quite helpful and whose aren't. Unfortunately, such a like system almost never fulfills its actual purpose because people are liking posts for various reasons: Funny posts, helpful posts, or just posts in which they agree with. A dislike system would be logical since there are also unhelpful and useless posts, but it simply wouldn't fit into the community and can easily be abused. Imagine you have 200 posts and 120 likes, it takes only a single kid to drag down your +120 score into the abyss by simply disliking everything.

Blistig likes this

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I'm sorry guys, completely diagree with people suggesting you can tell a person is useful by looking at their post and like count.

 

Posts can be anything, they need not even be game related.  Post count is one of the worst indicators out there.  Likes will be shared around friends and online buddies.  Sure someone might give a user a like because of something useful - but most of the time it's just used because people think thney can gain something by having a large number.  it's meaningless.

Blistig likes this

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I really appreciate all theinput. I was hoping for a discussion like this, and I've enjoyed reading through all your comments!

 

Everyone needs to make up their own mind as to the quality versus quantity of likes. The number itself is not the point, it's meant as an indicator. It's just one measuring tool of a persons impact on the forum, not the only one. Although I feel the current system is flawed, removing or ignoring it is not the answer. Keeping the like system in context, however, is. If you are contributing to the forum in a meaningful way, you will be remembered over time, regardless of how many times someone clicked "like".

 

If it's meant as an indicator, then the number of likes is exactly the point.

Being remembered regardless of your like-epeen is a great argument against it. Should you be remembered for your actions, your like counter, or both?

What do you mean exactly by keeping the system in context?

 

Looking at your post count and your like count, you can easily see whose posts are quite helpful and whose aren't. Unfortunately, such a like system almost never fulfills its actual purpose because people are liking posts for various reasons: Funny posts, helpful posts, or just posts in which they agree with. A dislike system would be logical since there are also unhelpful and useless posts, but it simply wouldn't fit into the community and can easily be abused. Imagine you have 200 posts and 120 likes, it takes only a single kid to drag down your +120 score into the abyss by simply disliking everything.

 

Excellent summary of the problem!

I'd like to mention the forums over at GOG.com for an alternative perspective. They have applied a reputation system (much like the one in this forum), with an added dislike option. They also have decided to go without post counters (a decision that I very much support, post counters are another one of my gripes).

For GOG, incredibly enough, it works! I have seen complaints, but very few, and the system seems to work beautifully.

 

Now they are of course susceptible for the same negatives aspects and consequences that have been mentioned and discussed in this thread.

The reason their system works despite what you'd (justifiably) expect, is their community.

The only way to combat negativity (which can rear it's ugly head in more ways than just by spamming a dislike button).

Facebook doesn't have a dislike button because Facebook is not a community, it's the community, spanning pretty much everyone.

Reddit's system doesn't work for similar reasons, it's massive, and as a result only smaller subreddits experience great success with it.

 

GOG is doing great not because the system is perfect and great, but because they attract a community of people with a low enough "level of negativity", that these debby downers are pretty much just drowned out.

I'd like to think that the AJSA could manage that as well, although I am not by any means certain.

 

I'm sorry guys, completely diagree with people suggesting you can tell a person is useful by looking at their post and like count.

 

Posts can be anything, they need not even be game related.  Post count is one of the worst indicators out there.  Likes will be shared around friends and online buddies.  Sure someone might give a user a like because of something useful - but most of the time it's just used because people think thney can gain something by having a large number.  it's meaningless.

 

Yes, my argument in that regards still stands.

A system of only likes may promote positivity in a way, but it's an artificial sense of positivity that is just as susceptible to abuse as any other.

The AJSA like counter indicates popularity and although I might sound like a broken record at this point: The fact that there is no tangible quality to the likes that would explain why users awarded them to you, makes it useless as a tool to measure "community standing". Popularity and activity in the forums perhaps, but not standing.

AJSA avoids negativity, but it doesn't gain anything in return. At least not in my eyes.

Contra Mundi likes this

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IMO I think its just something that's kind of... there. You can't get likes if you don't post on a regular basis. It seems that its more of an indication of how involved you've been in the community and that's what AJ has been looking for. People who are willing to help others, people who are active a lot, and people who are somewhat likeable. It's not something that can immediately determine your worth in the angry army, but it's a start. And on the internet... that's really all you can hope for.

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The thing I don't like about the current system is that our rank here is based, at least in part, on how many posts we have made and how many likes we have.  This encourages people to spam every thought that pops into their head on the forums to increase their post count and, by sheer statistical probability, their number of likes.  You could argue that it also encourages meaningful discussion, but it really doesn't.  As has been pointed out already, there is no indication as to why your post was liked.  If somebody posts 100 witty one-liners in a single day and they all get liked, what does that tell us about that individual's standing in the community?  Nothing.

 

Then there are people like myself.  I am not exactly anti-social but I am highly introverted.  I don't often have much to say and I greatly prefer thoughtful discussion over meaningless chatter.  I also don't have a lot of free time these days, so I can't spend hours a day here on these forums.  My post and like counts will both rise at a glacial pace compared to many others.  Does that mean that I am somehow less valuable to this community than someone who posts dozens of random thoughts here every day?

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Is this even a problem? And is it really worth changing? Let people have their likes for all i care, let a ton of likes mean whatever it does to you. Im not saying this because I have around 50 likes, im saying this because honestly I don't care. You guys are talking like likes are a precious resource

Kedric likes this

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