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RavagerCarnifex

Champion counters.

32 posts in this topic

I was wondering if any of you guys truly believe in counters. I'm borderline about it because you can be countered and still be better than your supposed counter, but that's just me.

DeathBat22 likes this

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Actually,the game balance itself on counters.If they were no counters,some champions will be so overpowered like Fizz or Kha Zix.Counters reduce their dominance in the game for an instance.

Yorick>Darius (Yorick + Tear is a nightmare lane,you cant farm,even if you try to farm u get 3 ghouls on your face)

Teemo>Garen (teemo counters everyone :D)

Ryze>Fizz (Look fizz is jumping,let me W his ass and shoot combo in his face)

Kata>Orianna (jumps,no mana or energy,impossible to catch with the combo)

Garen>Nasus (cuz of his slow and cc break from his q+ the silence)

I can go on and on.Every champ has a natural counter,you just need to learn them :D

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I Do believe that Counters are a thing within league of legends. Of course You should never pick a "counter" if you have no idea how to play him..

For example i have been playing against a lot of teemos as Nasus, and if the player knows what he is doing i have a hard time getting close and do any damage to him.. Yes i can slow him, but if he knows how to use the brushes to his advantage, i do not want to follow him in there. cause shrooms...
Some of the less good teemo players will use the blind aggressively which makes a opening for me to do some hard damage on them...

There will be Mechanical Counters. But you will need to know how to play Said champ against the opponent to efficiently counter him. 
In my opinion though i think builds also have a lot to say in the end. You need to adapt to what is happening, and not just stick with a certain build. 
Build so that you can survive against who you are up against... Building pure AD on riven wont help you if you are up against a ranged champion. you need to be able to survive


TL;DR
I Believe in Equal Skill counters. But a Skilled player can win against a counter if he is less skilled 

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Counters are great if you can play it well, otherwise just stick to what you are good at.

Ex: Blitzcrank counters squishy supports but if you can't land a hook your gonna have a bad time.

DeathBat22 likes this

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The reason they're called counters is because if the skill level is supposedly "equal," then the counter will win.  This is the same concept applied to most competitive fighting games as well.  We assume the skill level is equal when determining counters, but that is almost never the case, especially in solo queue.  Skill is the predominant factor that determines who wins the lane, but that is much harder to gauge.  =P

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I believe in counters giving an edge but skill always wins. A counted can make a lane hard but it all really depends on who the better player/jungler is

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Actually,the game balance itself on counters.If they were no counters,some champions will be so overpowered like Fizz or Kha Zix.Counters reduce their dominance in the game for an instance.

Yorick>Darius (Yorick + Tear is a nightmare lane,you cant farm,even if you try to farm u get 3 ghouls on your face)

Teemo>Garen (teemo counters everyone :D)

Ryze>Fizz (Look fizz is jumping,let me W his ass and shoot combo in his face)

Kata>Orianna (jumps,no mana or energy,impossible to catch with the combo)

Garen>Nasus (cuz of his slow and cc break from his q+ the silence)

I can go on and on.Every champ has a natural counter,you just need to learn them :D

Teemo can be countered and when he gets countered its amazing, I do believe counters exist but if you counter someone and have no skill as said champ there is no true counter there. For example malphite>jax or even lee sin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOZDs0gRWVg this vid goes over all of his counters and i know the malphite one is true because i've played a match up of that before and lost.

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About the learning of the counters who is to whom throw a look at http://www.lolcounter.com/ the site works by user help which register when they win or loose against a certain champ.

Hope this helps :)

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Teemo can be countered and when he gets countered its amazing, I do believe counters exist but if you counter someone and have no skill as said champ there is no true counter there. For example malphite>jax or even lee sin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOZDs0gRWVg this vid goes over all of his counters and i know the malphite one is true because i've played a match up of that before and lost.

If you're a bad riven or malph or lee,you're gonna lose,jax is the best duelist in the whole game,there is no one who can even challenge him.His kit is all about punishing badly positioned champs in the tf,and dueling someone.I agree with all these picks,Malph is my no.1 pick vs Jax,and sometimes even Irelia :D

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If you're a bad riven or malph or lee,you're gonna lose,jax is the best duelist in the whole game,there is no one who can even challenge him.His kit is all about punishing badly positioned champs in the tf,and dueling someone.I agree with all these picks,Malph is my no.1 pick vs Jax,and sometimes even Irelia :D

I garen aganist jax, he jumps, counter strikes and i courage then spin and win.

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I garen aganist jax, he jumps, counter strikes and i courage then spin and win.

That all depends on whether or not Garen or Jax is ahead. If Jax is ahead or at late game, he will be able to deal too much damage for Garen to return.

 

But for the most part, specific champion counters exist, but there are other more important factors in the game. Champion synergy and teamcomp give more inherent strength to the team. An example of a good champion synergy is Vi + Kass/Fizz/Ahri. The moment Vi hits 6, she ganks mid and the assassin mid deletes the locked up enemy mid laner.

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That all depends on whether or not Garen or Jax is ahead. If Jax is ahead or at late game, he will be able to deal too much damage for Garen to return.

 

But for the most part, specific champion counters exist, but there are other more important factors in the game. Champion synergy and teamcomp give more inherent strength to the team. An example of a good champion synergy is Vi + Kass/Fizz/Ahri. The moment Vi hits 6, she ganks mid and the assassin mid deletes the locked up enemy mid laner.

Garen vs jax, a normal garen player will always win, he jumps on you you courage and spin then he never tries that again due to all the damage you dealt and how little garen took.

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Garen vs jax, a normal garen player will always win, he jumps on you you courage and spin then he never tries that again due to all the damage you dealt and how little garen took.

Do you really expect a jax to start off a fight with Garen with a jump?

A decent jax player would just walk up to Garen to bait out his E and then engage once E is down.

And this scenario only considers early to mid game. A late game Jax versus a late game Garen will generally result in Jax's overwhelming victory due to how much damage and lifesteal he can put out.

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If you're a bad riven or malph or lee,you're gonna lose,jax is the best duelist in the whole game,there is no one who can even challenge him.His kit is all about punishing badly positioned champs in the tf,and dueling someone.I agree with all these picks,Malph is my no.1 pick vs Jax,and sometimes even Irelia :D

Lol no one can challenge jax? Jax is so easily countered by pantheon....Panth is the easiest counter for jax and the most effective in my opinion; I mean seriously well placed pantheon blocks and constant spear harassment easily fucks jax over.

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Over and done with jax talk he's good but not god and gets countered and beaten 50% of the time so i don't care if this person or that person counters him what ever works for you, great.
Jax+op.+LoL+fad+Best+fad+ever.+If+anyone

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Do you guys think the counters that are showed online maybe lolcounter or something are always right?
i dont think so.

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Do you guys think the counters that are showed online maybe lolcounter or something are always right?

i dont think so.

8 times out of 10 they are. it's all user input so results may vary.

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Do you guys think the counters that are showed online maybe lolcounter or something are always right?

i dont think so.

There are so many champions and players that there's no 100% counter pick, those site's shows wich machup is easy or hard, but many depends on personal skill/runes, if u'll play 1 champion alot then u'll know what and when u can do vs other champions, thx to milions of players u mostly get enemy with similar skill as yours, and that's why those 'counter picks' exist and can help you( like RavagerCarnifex said 8 of 10 times it works). But remember, if u'll play 1st time champion only coz it's 'counter', and u play vs lame champ and your enemy played alot this matchup then u'll still prpbly lose. For example i played alot lucian at the end of season when he was called better adc then( only) Urgot and i facetrolled most vayne or corki coz they didnt know this machup and thought they're op, and lucian is thrash^^

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I've said this before, but even if the counter heavily favors the opponent, you can win solely based on just being better.  However, unlike many other competitive games, LoL is not a 1v1 game.  LoLcounter assumes it's a 1v1, and that should never be the case in a real game.  Certainly, there are "true" 1v1 counters, but in a real game, if you are outskilled or outclassed in lane, you can roam, take jungle, grab a gank to relieve pressure for a base, etc.  Even the counters listed to just counter another champion's kit, it doesn't factor in the rest of your team and what they can do for you.  Because there are ten people in the game, there are just too many variables to determine the "true" counter that would guarantee a win and shut down of who/what you're countering.

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In some situations skill is not enough,you need certain champ mechanics to win a lane or a game,counters make this game balanced

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In some situations skill is not enough,you need certain champ mechanics to win a lane or a game,counters make this game balanced

Pretty much

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In some situations skill is not enough,you need certain champ mechanics to win a lane or a game,counters make this game balanced

Well, of course.  I didn't say counters didn't exist.  If your skill is just that much higher than your opponent, it doesn't matter what "counter" they picked.  I've played Poppy against all sorts of top laners, especially her hardest lane bullies/"counters," and I've destroyed many of them.  However, this was either in normal games or on my other account in which I play fun champions.  This is before Poppy even gets her "good" items.  I just destroy them with a Doran's shield.  Doesn't matter if they have the tools; the skill level is just not on par.  At the highest level, which is what metagame and counters assumes, difference in skill is very subtle, so it will come down to champions' kits, team comp, etc.  However, the majority of players are not playing at the highest level, as I certainly don't, so counters are very volatile for players who cannot take advantage of their tools to the fullest.

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Well, of course.  I didn't say counters didn't exist.  If your skill is just that much higher than your opponent, it doesn't matter what "counter" they picked.  I've played Poppy against all sorts of top laners, especially her hardest lane bullies/"counters," and I've destroyed many of them.  However, this was either in normal games or on my other account in which I play fun champions.  This is before Poppy even gets her "good" items.  I just destroy them with a Doran's shield.  Doesn't matter if they have the tools; the skill level is just not on par.  At the highest level, which is what metagame and counters assumes, difference in skill is very subtle, so it will come down to champions' kits, team comp, etc.  However, the majority of players are not playing at the highest level, as I certainly don't, so counters are very volatile for players who cannot take advantage of their tools to the fullest.

I pretty much destroy everyone top when I'm darius but i still believe in counters, plus gives me an edge over them by knowing how they counter me.

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Counters exist in two ways: champion counters and composition counters, and the latter is much, MUCH worse than the former.

 

While I do believe in champion counters, I also believe that they do not affect the game in a too major way. Even in the worst of match-ups, through good rotation and jungle presence you can overcome your weaknesses. Often times counter champions don't fit in the team either, for example a Caitlyn countering a Vayne while the team Caitlyn is in relies on heavy diving and no poke. It's a bad champion to select because even if you counter your lane opponent, you still may lose horribly simply because you have little place in your current team.

 

I really suggest a person counters champions only if he really knows what he's doing and he knows how to snowball stupidly well. A well executed Riven will carry through a game almost solo, and it's even better when she counters her lane opponent. Champion counters are only important in the sense that with a counter you can deny an enemy from snowballing too hard - because even if you're losing horribly, if you have a slight understanding of your champion, you can still be a benefit to your team and not get destroyed completely.

 

However, no matter how much you counter your enemy, I do NOT understand picking up the champ if it's in a bad composition. Sometimes, you gotta counter yourself so that your team can be more coherent and more of an actual counter to the enemy team composition. Composition counters are miles better than any champion countering, oftentimes because come mid and late game, the superior composition wins more often than not. And no, it's not "AoE>all". AoE comps in fact require a specific set of circumstances and the enemy team staying clumped in order to fight. Every composition has it's bane. For example, if you have a poke composition against you, you want to pick up something like Jax/Rengar/Fizz/Draven/anything aggressive as hell. Picking up an Orianna mid just because you counter the enemy laner, for example, is NOT going to work outside of laning ( and yes, Orianna IS strong, yes, she can delivery system, I know ) - Orianna has no mobility, she cannot dive and she will ultimately get poked out of the fight. Ultimately, a team's good composition counter helps win the game, not specific champion counters - this is not a fighting game, this is a team oriented endeavour and requires the game to be taken as a team. It's the soloq problem, honestly.

 

Not to mention that champion counters, just like in fighting games, assume that players are of equal skill. That is... pretty much impossible. Someone will be better than you, someone will be worse. Just pick up a champion you're comfortable with and fits the team composition fairly well - countering things is not really the most efficient way to win if you don't know why, compositions included. And besides, skill is the most determinating factor anyway - if counters solely won games, then we would be able to beat the pros, right? Well, yeah, we can't, because they are more skilled.

 

Skill>composition counters>champion counters is what I'd say.

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