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Delicieuxz posted a topic in AngryJoeShowHello Joe and your community, This post is in regarding the comment you make at 16:41 in your video on the Battlefield 5 beta: "Honestly, all the negativity towards Battlefield, more and more, I'm starting to see the light, and I'm disappointed that I didn't see some of this stuff sooner." Joe, I really appreciate hearing that comment. I'm very glad that you're clicking with some of what other people have been criticizing DICE over for many years. And this actually brings me a bit of relief. Years ago, when Battlefield 3 released and was found by Battlefield 2 players to be a total downgrade in content, scope,and depth of systems and mechanics from Battlefield 2, I registered on your forums and made my first post here, which was a thread talking about the state of Battlefield 3 and detailing all the many times DICE had sold out throughout their studio's existence and how over-simplified Battlefield 3 was compared to Battlefield 2. You deleted my thread and banned me from your forum. That was the first and only post I made on your forums until now. At that time, if you were someone that had never player DICE's games before they abandoned PC to become a console-exclusive developer for many years before returning to PC with Bad Company 2 and then Battlefield 3, you might not have understood the criticism and been more impressed with Battlefield 3 than long-time Battlefield players were. But, if you had gone onto DICE's EA UK forums (where many of DICE's developers regularly hung out and interacted with Battlefield fans) at that time you would have seen walls of angry, mocking, and critiquing threads over Battlefield 3. And, remember that the backlash and criticism against DICE over Battlefield 3 was so intense and overwhelming that DICE officially permanently shut down their forums to stop the deluge of negative feedback they were getting. And DICE developers haven't engaged with their community in a similar way since then. At that time, DICE were getting that negative feedback because of many of the things you're complaining about with the beta of Battlefield 5 which have been issues in Battlefield 1, Battlefront 2015, and Battlefront II 2017: The same trend of over-simplification and lack of depth was already heavily happening in Battlefield 3, and it ticked Battlefield 2 players off, a lot. Battlefield 4 was actually a pleasant step away from that downward spiral of dumbing-down DICE games - but, it only last for that single game and then DICE was right back at the intense dumbing-down with Battlefront 2015, then Battlefield 1, and then Battlefront 2. DICE is a studio that has hardly ever listened to its fans, and has more often chosen to spite them when they criticize the studio: Patrick Bach infamously stated "nailed it" about the Bf3 launch maps which were lacking detail and character and generally were very small compared to Battlefield 2's maps - which sparked memes of Patrick Bach meaning that DICE had nailed the coffin in the Battlefield series. And as people continued to complain about Battlefield 3's relatively-small maps, Patrick Bach semi-infamously retorted in an interview with "I actually prefer the smaller maps". I feel that DICE have not appreciated Battlefield or its fans, but have always tried to be obtuse with both. Here are some more examples of the chaos that went on at the EA UK Battlefield forums around the release of Battlefield 3: When a DICE manager chided the community on the EA UK forums saying that the DICE team had spent their summer making these maps for them, the community, not entirely undeservedly, pushed back and threw his appeal for token appreciation in his face. Noshahr canals was mockingly renamed Nosehair Canals by the community to highlight its small size. People posted memes showing an expansive terrain with mountains and rivers and fields, bragging about it being the largest map in Battlefield's history, but with a marked playable area inside that large space that's no bigger than the size of a baseball field, or even a closet - pointing out the disingenuousness of DICE's claim that Battlefield 3 has the largest map in Battlefield history, which is a marketing fib that DICE again pulled with Battlefield 1, and I think I read somewhere that DICE had once again make that claim regarding a Battlefield 5 map. If they did, my bet's that the map will turn out to yet again be small when compared to Battlefield 2's larger maps. At this point, falsely asserting that the new Battlefield has the largest map yet is a running false-marketing gag of DICE's. With Bethesda it's 'wide as an ocean, shallow as a puddle' , and with DICE it's 'largest map yet, with the smallest playable area yet'. And there was so much dissatisfaction over Battlefield 3, which was supposed to be a true full sequel to Battlefield 2, that EA and DICE just shut down their main Battlefield forums to stop it all. By the way, the real largest map in Battlefield history up till now is still going to be one of Battlefield 2's several huge maps, or maybe Battlefield 1942's El Alamein. Though, I suspect that it might be Battlefield 2's FuShe Pass: Regardless of which Battlefield game has the de-facto largest map, Battlefield 2 has many maps larger than anything in Battlefield 3, 4, 1, and probably anything that will be in 5. And to show that what is being criticized about post Battlefield 4 games was actually already there in full-force with Battlefield 3, here are many of the things that Battlefield 2 gloriously has that were sorely downgraded from in Battlefield 3: 6-person squads, and maps that were suited for having larger squads 7 classes limited sprint (not everybody wants it, but lots of us did when Battlefield 3 released, and I certainly still do - it adds tons of skill and strategy to the game, and creates more dynamics) squad-leader spawning only squad-leader controls to direct the squad (Battlefield 4 and 1 have a simplified, and I think clunkier take on Battlefield 2's squad-leader controls) more expansive team, squad, and communication controls all-around commander mode larger maps more maps more creativity, variety, and character within maps lots of maps with no non-cappable bases, or with only one non-cappable base (meaning there was actually a real, tangible goal to work towards, and a real point of victory and accomplishment or defeat in many maps - which in very satisfying to have) a variety of flag layout designs rather than Battlefield 3's strictly arena-styled layout designs faster, more nimble, and more thrilling aircraft that actually felt like a part of the overall game (in later Battlefields, air-play is almost hermetically-sealed into a separate bubble from the ground fight) more vehicles in general, and maps that could better accommodate vehicle play It seems pretty obvious that Battlefield 3's severe design downgrade in size, scope, and complexity from Battlefield 2 was for the sake of console hardware limitations and the console audience which at that time were almost exclusively used to games heavily geared towards simplicity and casual playing. And because of that, Battlefield 3 was a game that drove the passionate Battlefield 2 fan-base crazy with disappointment and anger. They were angry at DICE for selling out the main series (like DICE had sold out so many times before then) instead of treating it like the real return to the epic scope of classic PC Battlefield that DICE had marketed the game as being. We Battlefield 2 players loved Bad Company 2, but we loved it knowing that it isn't a main series Battlefield game and that it was a simplified spin-off game targeting the console audience, and we loved it as a stop-gap before the next main series Battlefield game released. Many of us thought that it was an appetizer and warm-up before the main course arrived. But then, Battlefield 3 did not deliver us a genuine sequel to Battlefield 2. And now that I see that you're experiencing a bit of the same realization and disappointment with DICE concerning their games following Battlefield 4, I hope you can look back and see that the problem in the mentality and approach of DICE was unfortunately already there a lot earlier than you might be thinking it was, with Battlefield 4 seemingly being a one-off exception to the historical rule of the DICE-dumbdown. And I want to say I'm glad that someone like yourself with a voice to get things heard and acknowledged on a larger scale has finally said something about it.