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mrfool

So Joe Plays Dota 2...

54 posts in this topic

Hey guys, not sure if people were aware but Joe streamed his first time playing Dota 2. I have alot of thoughts and...heated opinions on what happened (not relating to his actual playing of the game, I can agree that he's entirely new) but I'm interested in seeing what you guys thing about it all.

http://www.twitch.tv/angryjoeshow/b/491687956

Leave your thoughts below!

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Okay I'm just gonna list what I thought about it all.

1. They (Delrith and Joe) should have used their Teamspeak server to communicate, since around the 2 hour mark in that video I linked above Skype had problems. We have our OWN official TS Channels for Dota 2.

 

2. Neither Joe or Delrith joined the AJSA Dota 2 Guild (Infact, they're still not in it and I'd love to extend an invitation to the both of them). The leader of the guild (Craigr910) was in several of the games played in the above stream so I'm not sure why he didn't just invite them into it and make it a guild thing.

 

3. Since Delrith seems rather in-experienced in Dota 2, I can easily reccomend players in the guild to help Joe out if he seriously wants to learn to play Dota 2. I don't entirely agree with Delrith when he says you can't teach someone to fully play Dota 2 but I do think there needs to be someone who knows HOW to teach Joe.

 

I'm co-leader and one of the Officers of the AJSA Dota 2 Guild, so if there are any questions related to how the guild is run and how we can set up games involving Joe PLEASE get in touch with me on steam @ mrfool.

 

Thanks.

Mondez, Globalnet and Sundaecat like this

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to compound #1 even if people decided to swarm the channel there technically are the more private higher level channels that are reserved for commanders and above if the need arose. :)

 

2. I dont feel the guild was even mentioned was the part i was most annoyed at i think( i did leave abit early since i needed sleep and i havent watched the full stream yet so dont quote me on this)(would have atleast liked abit of acknowledgement of atleast its existence) (and i felt that the party selection process was random and wished there was a round where it was just joe + Delrith + guild people) but as i said i havent watched the first one yet and neither have i watched the 2nd since ive been busy with stuff so ill watch it and then update this probably

 

3. agreed there are kinks with both the map and the each of the heroes abilities which makes teaching the game without having put a good 1000+ hours at the very least a nightmare of a task. in example: Knowing where the lone trees are for a timbersaw can vastly improve your survival chances, while learning not to keep right clicking or using spells during abaddons ult can make it much easier to kill abaddon, or knowing that naga sirens ult doesnt stop bkb heroes. There are also ones that you gain from experience as well, like if you are forced to last hit under tower early game, siege creep require 3 tower hits + 2 hero hits or an extra ranged creep hit + your last hit, or ranged creep is hero hit , tower hit x2 and then last hit . thats the general formula anyway sf can shake it up abit since he gains so much damage to the point he doesnt need two hits for the most part once he gets enough souls :)

 

would definitely love to set up games with joe, if we can get it set up and such :) Hoping Joe gets really into Dota 2 :D

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1) Well TS is much better than Skype in many ways, Skype is just a bit more "convenient" to use. So I agree with you on that.

2) Yeah it's pretty sad. But I think Joe just doesn't want to be flooded in the guild by it's members (like he said about privacy in his Skype)  :D

3) Yeah Delrith is pretty inexperienced himself to teach someone else. There is nothing bad in it, but if Joe wants to learn about the game, he needs someone who at least knows itembuilds on heroes  :D  This is why I made a thread about coaching.

 

So I agree with you on every point, and have nothing to add at the moment.

It's just not enough information to say about anything else since Joe has only started playing DotA  :) .

mrfool likes this

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there is probably an option in the dota 2 options to disable party requests from non friends if necessary as well temporarily if joe is getting party spammed for example. Im also hoping that guild members will be abit more mature and wont just spam party invites at joe whenever he is online and rather atleast ask in guild chat :( once we get joe in the guild anyways :D

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I am not trying to hate on Delrith by any means but... I think Joe was wanting to learn whereas Delrith just wanted to play. The problem that occurred is that Dlerith seemingly does not have the experience necessary to teach someone how to play. Albeit, being on  a livestream does not help either which is why I agree that it should be done off screen. Teaching is not easy but it can be done--I have coached for competitive Starcraft:Bw and DotA 2 and it can be a hassle at times. I do think Joe should look around and find some good players (maybe some of us from the guild) to help him learn but we will have to see. There is an issue where I have a feeling that if he goes on this way, Joe may get discouraged or annoyed with the game and not play at all. 

As for the guild itself; I did try mentioning it in chat a couple of times but sad that it was never even brought up. I can understand why Joe would be inclined to not join if it means too much of an annoyance but still it would be nice to know it exists. Maybe next time it will be pointed out to him or that it will be brought up in some manner.

All in all the one thing I did take from him playing is that he does actually want to learn. He realizes mistakes that are made and understands when he is at fault (which is a good skill to have when learning). I do hope he ends up learning off screen in an environment conducive of learning and not a hindrance. 

KanKraken, Sundaecat, mrfool and 1 other like this

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Thanks for your replies guys, really appreciate what you guys think about this :)

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I realise this reply is a bit extremely late, but my email said you guys posted this and I was interested to share my thoughts. I only watched the first video, and I only watched like the first 10-20 minutes of it (I have shifty internet where I am right now, once I get my non-shifty internet I'm definitely watching the whole thing) but this is my opinion of what I have seen so far.

 

First off, I find it admirable that Joe is attempting to learn how Dota 2 works. It's a hard game, and whilst it is easier to start with DotA 2 with some MOBA experience, I find that going from LoL to DotA is a weird transition that is rather uncomfortable (I'm an ex LoL player, switched when I saw DotA 2 for free and decided to give it a go.) ( I wasn't good at LoL. Dear god no. But I knew the basics.) so the fact Joe is sticking out with this (and seeming to enjoy it) is great. I've also heard that Joe is very interested in the game, and that he will play it more often, which is great. That being said, I'm seeing alot of complaints on how Joe did not reference the AJSA DotA 2 guild. I fully agree with these complaints. Whilst I do get that Joe is busy, and dealing with a guild is probably not going to help that, at least a reference to us would have been nice. 

 

Secondly, talking about the video itself, I found the video very enjoyable, and downright funny at some points. Joe's reaction to how Tangos work was very funny, being very puzzled by the fact you can eat trees to heal up (when you think about it, it makes no sense whatsoever, but we DotA players just kinda accept it and move on.) That being said, I do think Joe could have used a better teacher. I don't hate Delrith. I'm not saying he's a shit player.If anything, I'm glad that Delrith was in the stream. I'm just stating that he could have done a better job at teaching Joe. At some points, he would start downright yelling at Joe for the mistakes he made, and that kind of stuff really discourages you. Maybe a couple of guildies (not me. Dear god, if he gets coaching from me he would probably end up picking wisp and attempt to level 1 solo rosh) can teach him the ropes.

 

Finally, I do hope that Joe does play with some guildmates at least once. I realise that this is probably unlikely (even more so for me, since I'm on the other side of the planet), but it would be cool to have our benevolent leader fight with us against some random pub people who didn't buy a courier, or against a well organised team who is well known throughout the DotA community, or even just in in-house tournaments. It would be a fun, and probably educational, experience for us.

 

Those are my 2 cents. Kind've the same as everyone else's opinions, but it's because I share the same ideas with them. Anyhoo, ciao!

mrfool likes this

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I just wanna say that I personally had fun watching Joe playing doto with mates. I really hope he plays more of it.

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Well, watching Joe stream has inspired me to draft a basic guide to Doto 2 (With some collaboration with some AJSA Guild members). If Joe or Delrith is reading this, I do request that Joe be taught how to use the built in, In Game Guide system that takes a popular community build and integrates it with the HUD. 

blog_builds_hud.jpg

There, now Delrith can focus on playing his gema while Joe can focus on learning the mechanics, before the hero, first.

 

About Game Mechanics

Here's my favorite guides in existence.  it's a comprehensive guide to Dota 2 Mechanics, very detailed and pretty pictures to back it up. Easy to understand language, too.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=123364976

Svyaga likes this

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I also re-watched the first and two game sessions and while i had a lot of good laughs, i was still pretty sad about the way AngryJoe was introduced to the basics of the game. I would be glad if the guild could give him some good coaches who can teach him the fundamentals of DOTA. Joe was trying really-really hard to learn as much as he could but I feel like the other guys just had a different attitude to this whole thing.

Sundaecat likes this

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Well, watching Joe stream has inspired me to draft a basic guide to Doto 2 (With some collaboration with some AJSA Guild members). If Joe or Delrith is reading this, I do request that Joe be taught how to use the built in, In Game Guide system that takes a popular community build and integrates it with the HUD. 

blog_builds_hud.jpg

There, now Delrith can focus on playing his gema while Joe can focus on learning the mechanics, before the hero, first.

 

About Game Mechanics

Here's my favorite guides in existence.  it's a comprehensive guide to Dota 2 Mechanics, very detailed and pretty pictures to back it up. Easy to understand language, too.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=123364976

I looked through the guide a bit and it's really cool and newbie friendly! Can't say that everything there is right (didn't read that much, mdae just a quick look), but I really liked pictures and overall style of the guide  :).

It's a bit out of date (patch 6.79 not included), but I don't think it's a big issue.

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I looked through the guide a bit and it's really cool and newbie friendly! Can't say that everything there is right (didn't read that much, mdae just a quick look), but I really liked pictures and overall style of the guide  :).

It's a bit out of date (patch 6.79 not included), but I don't think it's a big issue.

Most of the guides have a pretty good idea of the hero and usually also provide a couple sentences explaining the skill and how its meant to be helpful. They can also be really funny like Axes Manliest Axe, has categories based on manliness or if you are behind and such :P

it also usually shows the base synergizes of skills and items, like why blink dagger is useful on a ta blink meld strike is a pretty strong combat starter.

Id recommend Purge's guides for the heroes he has it up for(BristleBack, Tide offlane, Lion support, timbersaw, offlane clockwerk, etc etc) and guides can now be sorted with language 

https://steamcommunity.com/id/purgegamers/myworkshopfiles/?section=guides

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I'm curious if it occurred to any of you that he may have intentionally decided to put off joining the guild until he gets an idea as to how enjoyable he finds it.

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I'm curious if it occurred to any of you that he may have intentionally decided to put off joining the guild until he gets an idea as to how enjoyable he finds it.

I guess everybody just wants Joe to not to give up because doto is a hard game to master. Like I said before I really enjoed Joe playing (though he is a newbie) with his friends and I really want him to enjoy this game as we all do. Mainly BECAUSE the game is THAT hard and complex. If he needs help I am sure there are lots of people (there is even a thread about this somewhere) who will help him, including myself. Just call for it.

Doto earned its "Esport game of the year" award for a reason!

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@MetGreDKo It did occur to me and I understand that he wants to learn the game before he joins the guild. My problem was that our guild LEADER was in several games with Joe and didn't even mention that we had a community (the community Joe founded himself) Guild up and running if he wanted to join at any point.

Sundaecat likes this

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@MetGreDKo It did occur to me and I understand that he wants to learn the game before he joins the guild. My problem was that our guild LEADER was in several games with Joe and didn't even mention that we had a community (the community Joe founded himself) Guild up and running if he wanted to join at any point.

Especially during the 3rd or 4th game when the party started getting people from a Channel to the party and it was to put it lightly a bit of a spam chat much like how some of the trade chats are :I . I kind of wished the guild leader chose a couple people from the guild to join the party for maybe one round just to at least acknowledge the existence of the guild :(. Since the community guild is full of regulars who play dota 2 pretty regularly and some of us were on Teamspeak discussing strats and such at the time im sure we would have been more than happy to help out in the learning process.  

And as for Joe not wanting to Join till he learns the game more im fine with it. One of the problem me and im pretty sure Craigr/MrFool/Derwisj would want to avoid is people who only play when joe is playing(Cause i do remember TB saying similar stuff about his planetside 2 guild thingy sometime back when he was more active with it). Other than that we just wanted a mention at the very least :(

mrfool likes this

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Just want to push this.  We don't have any community spotlights at the moment. No means for Joe or anyone to join the dota players. That are on regularly. Most us that talk to each other are on team speak so if he went on Skype how is he gonna play with his fans. Seems like a natural dilemma.

SlenderMan likes this

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Just want to push this.  We don't have any community spotlights at the moment. No means for Joe or anyone to join the dota players. That are on regularly. Most us that talk to each other are on team speak so if he went on Skype how is he gonna play with his fans. Seems like a natural dilemma.

I appreciate the fact that Joe even played Dota 2 in the first place. He had no obligation to play it and since he's a very busy guy I really admired him for the fact that he took time out to try Dota 2. I wouldn't mind him playing Dota 2 with us, but we cannot ask or force the issue.

I can show your post to the appropriate community members, but no one is going to directly ask Joe to play Dota 2.

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Well if you can't play Dota 2 yourself and never played Dota 1, ofc you probably can't teach anyone to play dota at all.
Yes we can think of much better smarter and much more enjoyable ways to introduce Dota 2 to AJ again.
However, how many other Moba games have you seen him showing interest in? All I know is he played all of them a couple of games to make a video or a stream. That is what he does. Review a game, not constantly train about one particular game. I've seen him playing LoL(Dota 1 with more boobs), IC( DC - LOL), Blizzard Dota (that unicorn+diablo was worth your money Joe, it made my day :), smite (Dota 2 the way I thought Dota +Source Engine will be like), strife (LoL for kids).

He even sad he loved IC, we all know he likes Superman ;)  And we all know he was playing LoL the most from all MOBA games. So how to get him back in a very hard, very demanding Pro game that takes lots of time to learn? Well not by believing he should take his time to learn all about Dota 2, but asking him to take a little of his time for us, his community. To take part in well organized event game that we all can spectate/watch on twitch. That includes on Both Sides AJSA Dota 2 members (In-Hause).

Now that was the basic suggestion up there ^^. I already did a more detailed suggestion some where on the forums, but I've been playing same Moba game for freaking 8 years, so I'm a bit forgetful now.

Complex suggestion:
Have him play an In-Hause game vs the winners of the next Tournament in the AJSA Dota 2, while in his team are the Dota 2 Officers to help him out. Organise it well, with the idea that you don't have to teach him entire Dota 2 to make this happen. Do either:

a. Set up good solid FIXED Draft for both teams for a decent Dota 2 game.
b. Make the Draft and quit the game, go to "prepare him".

Prepare him:

- Make a dummy Game with exact same Lineup, with cheats and level up everyone above level 6

- Let him feel his hero and test his skills.

- Let him see and feel every other hero that will be in the game and his skills (know your enemy not just your friends)

- After that preparation game start and stream the real game. Since Delirth will have to take the Steamer slot this time. All of AJSA officers can coach and support Joe.

Give him a mighty Hero worthy of his persona. Give him AXE. He is big, mele, brutal, red, have beard and he is the manliest hero of all Dota. His soul purpose is to GET attacked from as much as possible heroes, in order to make an opportunity for his army to annihilate their opponents. I'm pretty sure he would like that Idea. And he kicks ass back. ( if you tell him to play for Battle Hunger i'm quitting this dota community, you are cutting Axe's balls off when you do that).

If you think that playing vs the strongest team in the AJSA is a bad Idea well then modify that Idea. Make him play with the Winners. I'm sure one of their players will have no problem joining the opposite team or stepping down or let their Captain Coach him if trust worthy. Then he surely will win his game.

This would be probably the most amazing Prize Ever for a AJSA Tournament. I'm sure I'm not alone there.
As it will show him playing this game at a much higher level in a controlled environment, with preparations well done.

mrfool likes this

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I doubt you'll see AJ play a lot of DOTA 2, becouse he hais he didn't like it - it was too complicated.

Also DOTA 2 isn't PRO it's elitist there is a difirence.

I personaly don't play it becouse pathfinding sucks ass and allways makes my champion mowe rin a random other direnction than I ordered him.

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I doubt you'll see AJ play a lot of DOTA 2, becouse he hais he didn't like it - it was too complicated.

Also DOTA 2 isn't PRO it's elitist there is a difirence.

I personaly don't play it becouse pathfinding sucks ass and allways makes my champion mowe rin a random other direnction than I ordered him.

Uh-oh you said the C-word  D:

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Well I saw that stream, it was funny thought, but I think if you wanted to become better at DOTA 2 he should be playing more with the army. If not, he will not do as well but maybe a hell of a fun stream or video :P

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So no one bothers to read the upper posts, I see. I hate you Facebook/Youtube/UslessComment Sites, it's your fault!
Just because he Hated a game one time, does not mean he won't ever play it again. He played ESO again and that freaking sucked in the Beta, he did sad that him self, in his own review. And guess what, the Final game was not that Changed AT ALL. Did you see those 100 exact same looking characters that had exact same looking horses with the same synchronized animation at the same time? We don't need to train him to become a better Dota player, why would you even do that? We need to let him have fun with Dota 2 and I'm pretty sure we can arrange that happen. He is putting up a show for us, now we can put up a show for him in return. You just need to let go of the silly one sentence youtube comments. For example this is NOT helping:

"Champion? NO I prefer to play only Heroes since every Hero can kick a mere champion's butt." - Stay on topic witch is AJ in Dota 2.

"They used Skype not TS and that's why they failed?" - That's not even relevant, rudder the fact that the rest of their teammates were not in their voice chat.

"I saw the stream. He sucked at playing dota, Del sucked , everything sucked, screw it all. We won't see him again ever." - Get the fuck out and go cry to your mommy, this is still AJS Army.

 

Well I have to say Joe have tried a lot of Hard-to-play games and I never seen him becoming dead Serious (but he never gave up/surrender). The only games in witch he is dead serious are the Big massive MMOs in with he can see and control his Army. It makes sense really, but it doesn't mean he can't enjoy a hard going game in a team vs team. He enjoyed Titanfall and that's basically Dota in Space, with like 4 heroes and 2 Items I guess. I saw him play MWO and if you don't now this is again a Team vs Team Arena game with Military Theme. He had trouble there too. But guess what, his team there pulled him throw.

So if you are really serious about this thread, get serious :)

Review this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4L2itnI414 and get your notes done right. You can see that Joe was prepared for 20 minutes before the game. He knew what he was going in for and what he had under his control. He was constantly communicating and advised in his team.
> relaxation, preparation, team play

Just go read the First page of this thread already, if you haven't.

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