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Lightning

Issue with our motto

39 posts in this topic

So, we all know the AJSA motto right? Never Give up! Never Surrender! Victory or Death! Well, is that the correct way of thinking? I mean, thats the kind of thinking that did the Spartans in wasnt it? I suggest we change it to Never Give Up! Never Surrender! But Tactical Retreat is Acceptable!

Whatcha think?

DemonsColt, Gone too and like this

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how about, NEVER GIVE UP, hey its 4pm lets have tea

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I don't think, that tactical retreats are surrenders...

And for the Spartans it was different: Because their bronze shields were so heavy, they could only retreat by giving up their shield. Without shield however, they had no chance of going back in the battle, because without a shield, you are at a ridiculously huge disadvantage. BTW. that is also why I consider Samurais the most stupid warriors in human history, use a shield you morons!

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I don't think, that tactical retreats are surrenders...

And for the Spartans it was different: Because their bronze shields were so heavy, they could only retreat by giving up their shield. Without shield however, they had no chance of going back in the battle, because without a shield, you are at a ridiculously huge disadvantage. BTW. that is also why I consider Samurais the most stupid warriors in human history, use a shield you morons!

they used shields, how do people no know this :S

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Really? I've never seen a single depiction of a samurai using a shield... I know, japanese soldiers used shields, but in a time before samurais.

Edit: And I also know, that they used some pavise-like shields, but no hand held shields for close combat.

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I say the Orks got it right. 

 

Orkses is never defeated in battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!

Jackie likes this

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Really? I've never seen a single depiction of a samurai using a shield... I know, japanese soldiers used shields, but in a time before samurais.

Edit: And I also know, that they used some pavise-like shields, but no hand held shields for close combat.

the funny thing is what people think of samurai's if the guys in the fancy armour and with the 2 hands on a katana. This is not the complete picture. In bigger battles it woudnt matter if you could kill one guy really quick, cause 10 more are standing behind him. 

So protection matters, specially for your best fighters, so shields did have their place. Just not in ceromony and tournements

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I don't think, that tactical retreats are surrenders...

And for the Spartans it was different: Because their bronze shields were so heavy, they could only retreat by giving up their shield. Without shield however, they had no chance of going back in the battle, because without a shield, you are at a ridiculously huge disadvantage.

They couldn't leave their shields, if a spartan soldier came back without it they would have been considered deserters, in the best case they were killed.

Anyway the big bronze shield is fiction. They used indeed a bronze shield but it was way smaller than the one you see in 300. A huge shield in a phalanx would destroy the chance of moving in battle.

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I don't think, that tactical retreats are surrenders...

And for the Spartans it was different: Because their bronze shields were so heavy, they could only retreat by giving up their shield. Without shield however, they had no chance of going back in the battle, because without a shield, you are at a ridiculously huge disadvantage. BTW. that is also why I consider Samurais the most stupid warriors in human history, use a shield you morons!

Theyre not, people dont understand that its a legitimate strategy! We might be accused of being cowards but, we live to fight another battle and save our teams a ticket.

As for the Spartans they never retreated because it was their hardass military doctrine, not just because of the logistics of shields. Losing their shields in combat was and probably not even in it, was a sign of cowardice for them a no no. But, theyre done, this army must learn from them.

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Never retreat, never surrender, our victorious reign

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the funny thing is what people think of samurai's if the guys in the fancy armour and with the 2 hands on a katana. This is not the complete picture. In bigger battles it woudnt matter if you could kill one guy really quick, cause 10 more are standing behind him. 

So protection matters, specially for your best fighters, so shields did have their place. Just not in ceromony and tournements

I would thinks so as well, but I've never seen one depicted... admitedly, I'm no expert in feudal japanese history, but I would guess, that I would find something, for a shield is something so insanely usefull, that basicly everyone must have had one.

 

 

 

They couldn't leave their shields, if a spartan soldier came back without it they would have been considered deserters, in the best case they were killed.

Anyway the big bronze shield is fiction. They used indeed a bronze shield but it was way smaller than the one you see in 300. A huge shield in a phalanx would destroy the chance of moving in battle.

I know, but it is mentioned somewhere in the sources, that the hoplite changed the warfare in a way, that while retreats, regrouping and reattacking was pretty common, before the heavy hoplite-warrior started to be used. They couldn't really retreat, without giving up at least their shield.The code of honor with not giving up your shield was necessary because of that. retreat means defeat for a hoplite. This was also the reason, why the hoplite-shields were designed in a way, that they protected only half of your bod, but almost half a meter of space to your left. Everyone had quite a good motivation to stick closely together in a tight phalanx and not break of for some individual slomo-kills for the trailler ;)

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I know, but it is mentioned somewhere in the sources, that the hoplite changed the warfare in a way, that while retreats, regrouping and reattacking was pretty common, before the heavy hoplite-warrior started to be used. They couldn't really retreat, without giving up at least their shield.The code of honor with not giving up your shield was necessary because of that. retreat means defeat for a hoplite. This was also the reason, why the hoplite-shields were designed in a way, that they protected only half of your bod, but almost half a meter of space to your left. Everyone had quite a good motivation to stick closely together in a tight phalanx and not break of for some individual slomo-kills for the trailler ;)

Don't forget this is true only for the spartans, in the Greek history there are a lot of tactical retreats as in Salamis, Plataea and Leuctra. Anyway we're going way off topic and i gave my Greek history exam yesterday so i'll just stop :D .

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I think i'll stick with "Never retreat in the face of the enemy ......... wait till he's not looking and sneak away".

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I think i'll stick with "Never retreat in the face of the enemy ......... wait till he's not looking and sneak away".

Can't you just stab him in that moment?

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Can't you just stab him in that moment?

Then you're risking getting stabbed yourself.

If you simply run away, no one gets stabbed. ERRY1 B HAPP-EY!!!

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Then you're risking getting stabbed yourself.

If you simply run away, no one gets stabbed. ERRY1 B HAPP-EY!!!

Yeah i know i just like to say stab, it's one of the most wonderful words in the english dictionary.

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Don't forget this is true only for the spartans, in the Greek history there are a lot of tactical retreats as in Salamis, Plataea and Leuctra. Anyway we're going way off topic and i gave my Greek history exam yesterday so i'll just stop :D .

Yes, do that. This thread is mainly about our army. Lord Commander should switch up the motto, as it stands, we run the risk of being self annihilated of sorts. And I dont want to be considered a deserter because running away in some situations would be better.

Retreating tactically is a brilliant strategy, search your feelings, as a Sith, I know this.

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Well, Salamis was a sea battle and in Platea the spartans also fought... I don't know anything about a retreat in that battle, all that I remember from herodot was a lot of regrouping, the atheneans and spartans always changing on which end of the greek battle force they should fight... I'm not really sure if it was more of a parable for the competition between sparta and Athens for the dominant greek polis...

back to topic: allways remember Bronn: "I didn't fight with honor. He did." Pointing at the still falling corpse of his opponent. ;)

Lightning likes this

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Yeah sorry about that, now on topic as i said once our motto should be "The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play". It was good for the Caretaker, it was good for Kirk and it is good for me :D .

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