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18 posts in this topic

Hey there my fellow Dota 2 players, 

This is Owosso,

I have a quarrel with a few of the players that join us on random matchmaking games. If you find yourself down and losing in a match but you still have your RAX, DONT GIVE UP!!! Sitting in the pool while the rest of the team tries everything they can to defend while you lollygag in the pool because your buthurt or feel like its a wasted effort, is just rude and unfair to your guildmates, and it ruins the game along with the community that supports it. 

My question is: When is it ok to just "Give Up"?

I'll let you guys wheigh in on this with your own explination but here are a few examples.

1. Before any of your base is detroyed.......

2. After 1 rax

3. After 2 rax

4. After all 3 rax

5 Never? I like this one the best, I mean we are the angry army right? Never Give Up, Never Surrender? am I right?

 

Thanks again guys.

Owosso.

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As Cave Johnson said "When life gives you tangos, don't make trees! Make life take the tangos back! Get mad! I don't want your damn tangos; what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager!"

Owosso likes this

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I think this is not something you can give one answer too.  Really what you have to think is, "Can we win the game the way our base sits right now?", not "Are we losing?"  There are a lot of instances where the other team will fall off, so by simply turtling and getting what farm and xp you can, you can end up coming back 1 or 2 or 3 raxs down.  It is also crucial to explain to the people who want to give up WHY the team could come back.  Otherwise keeping on fighting creates social tension because now the players who have given up feel that you are the one wasting their time, and they are taking their anger at losing out on you.  Explaining where you are coming from instantly solves this issue.   

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Depends on the situation,it's not always all about the towers.Sometimes you know you're gonna lose before you even lose a single one.

It all depends on your team and their team / matchups and score.

You just have to judge for yourself and decide whether you should give up or stay possibly wasting your time playing a losing game or turning the tides.

But in my experience,the latter is rarely the case.

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My rule of thumb is pretty straight foward.  If I am the carry I insist on never giving up ever.  If I know the enemy team will drop off late game I insist on never giving up.  However this is counteracted based on the number and the extent of the mentally challenged teammates I have , assuming I solo queued.  If i have one bad one, maybe I will give up at 2 rax, if i have 2 baddies, giving up after 1 rax may seem reasonable. If I have a team of ultra baddies I will be prone to give up as soon as the score becomes something like 2-30.  If you are a 5 man stack however NEVER GIVE UP! Fucking fight to the end.  Don't give the enemy team a free win.  MAKE THEM FUCKING WORK FOR IT!

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My rule of thumb is pretty straight foward.  If I am the carry I insist on never giving up ever.  If I know the enemy team will drop off late game I insist on never giving up.  However this is counteracted based on the number and the extent of the mentally challenged teammates I have , assuming I solo queued.  If i have one bad one, maybe I will give up at 2 rax, if i have 2 baddies, giving up after 1 rax may seem reasonable. If I have a team of ultra baddies I will be prone to give up as soon as the score becomes something like 2-30.  If you are a 5 man stack however NEVER GIVE UP! Fucking fight to the end.  Don't give the enemy team a free win.  MAKE THEM FUCKING WORK FOR IT!

Going to have to agree with this explaination the most so far. There should never be a moment that you "know" your going to lose. At that point I feel like your cheating yourself, and your teamates for not belieiving in your teams ability to win,  even if you have 4 noobs or 4 decent players and your having an off game. Keep trying because you may be surprised to see a teamate pick up the slack or land that perfect combo you needed to turn the tide. 

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iv turned games around fast with a good tram that undrstands that they can't run out and feed the other team but to sit back aand feed off the creeps and any lone enemy players 

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well i never give up, when we are losing badly i spam the chat saying 'WE CAN STILL DO THIS RAGGLE FRAGGLE'. but you can still come back after 1 or 2 rax's but after 3 it's VERY DIFFICULT but still try it's more fun to push rather sitting in base.

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I do not think you can one way or another when or if one should give up. There are often too many variables that come into play. For example, one has to take into account their league or skill-level. Higher you go, the better you tend to be at gauging when it is a lost cause or not. One has to take into account the hero lineup (you may be a rax down and looks one-sided but their team can be more push heavy while you are late game). You have heroes like BH which can turn a game around just by getting off track and getting kills. Even PL (or phantom-cancer) has the potential to come back from being two rax down.

I have been part of and witnessed games where it looked like there have been no chance but just gotta be smart about it. To each their own though :)

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Dota 2 is a mental game, whatever team that is the most stable will have the higher chance to win. I always fight until i lose, some people actually got mad at me for trying to win(how absurb) You can look me up and watch my second match, we were 4 vs 5 with our mid rax broken(there is 2 barracks in a lane) We won that game:)

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I think we can all agree that winning is the goal, I just wish that more people were willing to try thier hardest and not give up, but if we were able to control them then this wouldnt be an issue haha. Thats all I have to wiegh in on. Enjoy that new hero guys, he looks badass!

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It is in our AJSA Code of Conduct (5. Stay Active & Participate) that we don't "give up" or quit because it isn't going well, it's poor gaming ethics and considered unprofessional. Joe wants us to be the players out there that give everything we got, and if we get demolished we simply take the loss and move on without making a scene. 

 

Leaving a match due to a bad game or because the team is losing is actually punishable because it deeply affects the rest of the team. As others have mentioned, they still try to win but are dragged down by those that just give up. We encourage you to please report any members that intentionally quit for their own personal reasons in the middle of a match, we do not wish to allow this kind of behavior. So if anyone witnesses someone give up in the middle of a match, PM me with the details and I will act accordingly. Thanks and good gaming.

mrfool and Owosso like this

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It is in our AJSA Code of Conduct (5. Stay Active & Participate) that we don't "give up" or quit because it isn't going well, it's poor gaming ethics and considered unprofessional. Joe wants us to be the players out there that give everything we got, and if we get demolished we simply take the loss and move on without making a scene. 

 

Leaving a match due to a bad game or because the team is losing is actually punishable because it deeply affects the rest of the team. As others have mentioned, they still try to win but are dragged down by those that just give up. We encourage you to please report any members that intentionally quit for their own personal reasons in the middle of a match, we do not wish to allow this kind of behavior. So if anyone witnesses someone give up in the middle of a match, PM me with the details and I will act accordingly. Thanks and good gaming.

Contrary to the opinion of not giving up, I'm actually for an option for vote surrender or simply give up. I played over 10k games of Dota and I recognize when a game has a potential for a come back and when its completely lost. Its perfectly fine in professional games and captains mode for a team to GG out where you will meet a countdown of 10 seconds for a game to end. Forcing people to stay in games that are no longer fun is counter-productive especially when the opposing team starts camping your fountain with no intent of actually finishing then game, then it becomes downright torture.

As for leaving/abandoning the game, yes that is wrong and was a huge issue with Dota 1.

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Contrary to the opinion of not giving up, I'm actually for an option for vote surrender or simply give up. I played over 10k games of Dota and I recognize when a game has a potential for a come back and when its completely lost. Its perfectly fine in professional games and captains mode for a team to GG out where you will meet a countdown of 10 seconds for a game to end. Forcing people to stay in games that are no longer fun is counter-productive especially when the opposing team starts camping your fountain with no intent of actually finishing then game, then it becomes downright torture.

As for leaving/abandoning the game, yes that is wrong and was a huge issue with Dota 1.

Big difference than someone just deciding to stop. Obviously if there is a vote to surrender majority rules. Nothing wrong with that though some will still want to fight it out, if the vote passes to surrender then there's nothing else that could be said. So, yes I agree with you.

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Honestly it depends on the game, some games are lost before a rax is taken and at that point its considered just bad manners to keep wasting everyones time. Mind you though I usually play with full premade when I play dota so it's a bit different in my case. Either way it's pretty clear most times when its a game that's to far gone, but in most pub cases it's never like that since its no where near as behind as they make it out to be since the other team isn't coordinated as they could be. 

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I find that you can come back from anything if you just play correctly. I played against a team who came back even though we brought their ancient down to half hp, just by turtling and clearing out any creepwaves before they got to the ancient. You just have to focus, and play extremely cautiously, and you can win no matter what (in my experience).

Orphanchocolate likes this

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I find that you can come back from anything if you just play correctly. I played against a team who came back even though we brought their ancient down to half hp, just by turtling and clearing out any creepwaves before they got to the ancient. You just have to focus, and play extremely cautiously, and you can win no matter what (in my experience).

Yeah, sometimes we just need to strike back. I even had a sserious problem and still can win, my ancient only had 100hp but my team strike back and win even their "best" player keep try to strike back again..

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